HPP

What are the options for an F-Body? I know that nothing is a direct bolt in, so what I mean is, what is possible?

Some have done the C4 rear. Are there any others? What about the GTO/Monaro rear? Would that be adaptable? (I've breifly googled but found nothing on that rear/suspension.)

(I thought about posting to the last thread on this, but didn't want to go digging for, and then raise, the dead)

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

as we dont mind you rasing the dead, it shows you used the search button, lol. Personally, im starting to think it would be too much trouble.

BrandonDrecksage

iTrader: (1)

anything is possible with truck loads of cash. but the question is..is it worth it? probably not....you might be better off selling your car..and buying a gto..or a c4 for the amount of moeny that it would take to weld in a whole different suspension....unless your doing the work yourself. its similar to guys with 1st and 2nd gen dsm with fwd wanting to go awd....its possible..but it cost more than actually jsut going and finding a awd car.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

The whole back half of the car would need to be re-engineered. The work put in it, wouldnt justify the gain.

BrandonDrecksage

iTrader: (1)

not to mention you would have a wheel hopping camaro...lol

HPP

That sort of work wouldn't be worth it on a camaro. But on a Trans Am, that's a different story.


As for the back half of the car.... a cage could provide the strength needed for this, right? The C4 swaps I've seen didn't involve a whole new back half anyway. I was just wondering if the GTO rear might work because the C4 has that transverse leaf system.

Stang Killer, feel free to merge this with the "Dreaming of IRS" thread if you'd like. I didn't post it there because a lot of places don't like ancient threads being unearthed. Sorry.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

For the price of parts and labour involved for retrofitting an IRS, the Salisbury rear end isn't sounding so bad after all.

BrandonDrecksage

iTrader: (1)

why wouldn't it work on a camaro..they're basically the same car.

we don't mean that you'll have to weld on a different back half of a different car...just the whole suspension. yes you can build a cage that would give it strength, but is it worth it? between parts and labor..you talking about 10k or more probably.

what are you doing with the car that you'd want irs for?

HPP

I never said it wouldn't work on the camaro, just that it wouldn't be worth it.



And have you done it, or seriously researched it? Or are you just naysaying on a knee jerk reaction/hearsay?

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Oh boy, are we heading down the "Trans Am's are superior" road again?

Darksol

i always thought of the camaro as a "straight-line only" car. and the ws6 as more of a roadracer. but that is only in my mind i realize they are the same car. just seems like they sould have two differnent missions. i dont notice corvettes being to hampered by irs on the 1320. nor to i here them often complaining about wheel hop.

BrandonDrecksage

iTrader: (1)

i have not done it myself. although i've researched turning a fwd car into a awd car...which involed welding in a whole new IRS suspension...that was designed to fit the car because an option for that car was AWD...yet it was still an insane amount of work..and money...like i said..completely different story if your doing the work yourself and not somebody else, but if your paying somebody to do this...its not gonna be a 10hour job. i;d bet...although probably more..but it would come close to 50-100hours and thats if they get it right the first time. 50 hours of labor at 50 bucks an hour is 2500 dollars....i don't know of a shop that charges 50 an hour....and i'd bet it would be a lot more time then that.

and why wouldn't it be worth it on a camaro...they are the same damn car!

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Just to clarify, If you dig deep into the history books, the RPO Z28 option on the Camaro was for entry into the SCCA Trans-Am road race, and several Camaro's and Firebirds as well participated against Ford Mustangs and other homologated vehicles.

They had much more different options back then, than they did in the 4th generation, and most of the differences as far as performance goes would be negligible between both F-bodies. Mechanically, they're the same drivetrain components with using the same chassis underpinnings.

Also if you remember what Lou Gigliotti raced in the mid to late 90's, it was a Camaro Z28 that was modified to participate in one of the Road Racing events he participated in (can't remember which one at the moment).

HPP

Because it's not worthy. lol I'm sick of everyone always assuming 'camaro' and asking for just that to be brought back out. (So it's become a knee jerk reaction.) Screw it. And no, they aren't the same car. It's ugly, boring, and flat fendered. Which also supports what Gluemaker was saying, wider fenders make for an easier time stuffing rubber which is good for carving corners.

None of that was the intention of the thread, nor my desire. So if we can drop it and stop pushing those buttons, that'd be great. (otherwise this might get permanently derailed into a pointless flamewar)

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

If somebody prefers one flavour of F-body over another, then that should be a different thread altogethor.

As far as modifying the F-body underpinnings to incorporate a vastly different rear suspension design might only yield negligible improvement. I could see a possibility if it were a well designed IRS, but like it was previously said, that invovles reverse engineering the whole rear of the car (not just rear axle, but suspension, and worse, the chassis).

Personally, I am still open for a cost-effective retrofit for an F-body IRS, but for what it's worth so far, I'll stick with the Salisbury rear axle with improved coil-overs, trailing arms, and PHB.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Then you might not have wanted to bring it up......

HPP

This really sounds like speculation based on perceptions. I'm not saying you're wrong, but, you know that old saying "they only suceeded because they didn't know it was impossible"?

I know I've seen pics of a C4 swap. Doesn't anyone know the people who have done it? There's got to be some hard info somewhere, not just thoughts and theories.

But what about the Holden IRS? What does it look like? I can't find info on google. I'm curious to see what would be involved with mating it up.

And this isn't about cost. That's a defeatist attitude. lol

BrandonDrecksage

iTrader: (1)

are you doing the work yourself? or having a shop do it?

we aren't saying its impossible...we're just saying that it is POSSIBLE, but it will cost a truck load of cash and a lot of time...if you have both...go do it. Your not gonna find a write up on how to do it...your gonna have to have an engineering backround to figure out where to weld in all of the suspenswion stuff because it isn't plug and play and the car wasn't designed for it.

like I asked before...what are you planning on using the car for that you would need irs?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Yes, cost is a factor to more people as opposed to ones who don't view the over all budget. Believe what you see on the forums when you see people not opting for much more expensive parts that truly perform the way they're designed, and have a higher quality of build. Why, because they feel it isn't worth the extra 50 or 5000 USD to spend on that part.

If the C4 swap is actually a significant performance improvement and not just a negligible improvement, then I'd be game.

If you notice one of the places I live during the year, I have also checked out to see if the Holden IRS will retrofit to the Camaro, and so far, not with ease or extreme expense. You are aware that the Holdens are plentiful around OZ, and there is also an Australian F-body club as well.

I think you should attempt to design an IRS or IRS retrofit for the F-body. You'll really then understand what engineering is required and how to approach the market (which appears quite healthy here). And as I mentioned, if it's around 5000 USD for a system that has a negligible performance advantage over the Salisbury rear axle, then you'll really know how much cost affects the product, as you must price the item not to incur a loss.

If you make your very own one, we'd like to see not only how it's designed, but how it perfoms, with numbers and videos in tow. Like you mentioned, there's always a possibility, it's just that the consensus so far in this thread is not in favour of an expensive and time consuming IRS retrofit, while only achieving a neglible performance gain. If it performs significantly better, then you have proven me and other skeptics wrong (which would be a good thing for the F-bod community).

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

BTW, how much time have you had in your seat as far as track time? The reason I ask is because with decent suspension parts and good training and experience, you should be able to keep up with most of the amatuers with IRS vehicles. It truly sux having a heavy rear axle that doesn't allow independent movement for each wheel, however how many situations have you approached where the rear could benefit from IRS?