Edelbrock=shocks?
04-15-2008, 02:38 PM
#42
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I got slightly lost in the tech in this thread, but I have both Edelbrock shocks along with the coilovers in the front of my car. Hotchikis rear springs and the ride is great. It's not a Cadillac, but if I wanted "smooth" I wouldn't have bought a Z28. I have no complaints whatsoever.
04-15-2008, 04:36 PM
#43
Beat98TJ.....
I'm not really very clueless on this stuff. Remember it was me who told you that the kit had Pro-kit rears, not Sportlines.
I don't know every answer, god knows... what do know is the suspensions of these cars, pretty well. And being that I sell Eibach and both LS1 and LT1 Pro-kits, I'm very familiar with both.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
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13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
04-15-2008, 05:15 PM
#44
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Well Sam, my information came direct from Eibach this morning, so I have pretty good faith in it. I have rated the LT1 spring on our Roehrig spring rater, but not the LS1 spring as of yet.
04-15-2008, 05:42 PM
#45
Good for you... Eibach never messes up. 
They tell you that they rates are the same. Ignoring the fact the free lengths are 15mm different, and the part numbers different, let's think this through for just a minute.
They claim the LS1 set is 1.3" lower than stock, the LT1 1.2" lower than stock. 1/10th inch is 2.54mm. But yet the springs are 15mm different in free height with "supposedly" the same rate. Hmmm... makes me think that at minimum you'd see a 15mm difference in ride height (and we generally do at least between the two springs). So, what information that Eibach is giving you wrong?
If it was the same spring in the rear having a different part number for the rear is silly, but they do. We know they don't drop the car nearly the same amount, and that Eibach's QC is poor because some sets of LS1 springs slam the car so far, yet others don't.
You work for Edelbrock, and I can appreciate you trying to prop up what you guys sell. However, you have 18 posts here, and I've been around for a while. Eibach has well known issues with some part numbers. Further, where you rate the spring will effect the rate on a tester. If I took one of my rear springs, which are dual-stage 100-150 springs, but started compressing in at the end of 100 lb rate and into the 150 rate, I could make the spring seem like it's 120, or 130, or 140 or anything in between.
I think you think I've got a problem with Edelbrock. I don't. Again, I sell Edelbrock products (sold a set of Russell lines today in fact). But being in business means I have to give my customers the best advice and information I have. Being independent and buying from WD's vs. direct leaves me the ability to not have to make sales minimums, so that sort of thing doesn't skew my recommendations or opinion.
You convince me that I'm wrong. Eibach's word means squat to me. I've had other companies tell me plenty of things that just weren't true in the end. While you're talking to Eibach ask them why two different Pro-kits that are radically different on spring rate for two cars that are literally within pounds in actual weight? Ask them why they have such variance issues on LS1 Pro-kits? I'm sure they'll tell you how the LS1 is hugely lighter than a LT1 (it's not fwiw) and that they have no issues with ride heights. It's not true and there are plenty of folks here that have had LS1 Eibach's give up height and rate, despite what Eibach might claim.
They tell you that they rates are the same. Ignoring the fact the free lengths are 15mm different, and the part numbers different, let's think this through for just a minute.
They claim the LS1 set is 1.3" lower than stock, the LT1 1.2" lower than stock. 1/10th inch is 2.54mm. But yet the springs are 15mm different in free height with "supposedly" the same rate. Hmmm... makes me think that at minimum you'd see a 15mm difference in ride height (and we generally do at least between the two springs). So, what information that Eibach is giving you wrong?
If it was the same spring in the rear having a different part number for the rear is silly, but they do. We know they don't drop the car nearly the same amount, and that Eibach's QC is poor because some sets of LS1 springs slam the car so far, yet others don't.
You work for Edelbrock, and I can appreciate you trying to prop up what you guys sell. However, you have 18 posts here, and I've been around for a while. Eibach has well known issues with some part numbers. Further, where you rate the spring will effect the rate on a tester. If I took one of my rear springs, which are dual-stage 100-150 springs, but started compressing in at the end of 100 lb rate and into the 150 rate, I could make the spring seem like it's 120, or 130, or 140 or anything in between.
I think you think I've got a problem with Edelbrock. I don't. Again, I sell Edelbrock products (sold a set of Russell lines today in fact). But being in business means I have to give my customers the best advice and information I have. Being independent and buying from WD's vs. direct leaves me the ability to not have to make sales minimums, so that sort of thing doesn't skew my recommendations or opinion.
You convince me that I'm wrong. Eibach's word means squat to me. I've had other companies tell me plenty of things that just weren't true in the end. While you're talking to Eibach ask them why two different Pro-kits that are radically different on spring rate for two cars that are literally within pounds in actual weight? Ask them why they have such variance issues on LS1 Pro-kits? I'm sure they'll tell you how the LS1 is hugely lighter than a LT1 (it's not fwiw) and that they have no issues with ride heights. It's not true and there are plenty of folks here that have had LS1 Eibach's give up height and rate, despite what Eibach might claim.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
04-15-2008, 06:21 PM
#46
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They tell you that they rates are the same. Ignoring the fact the free lengths are 15mm different, and the part numbers different, let's think this through for just a minute.
They claim the LS1 set is 1.3" lower than stock, the LT1 1.2" lower than stock. 1/10th inch is 2.54mm. But yet the springs are 15mm different in free height with "supposedly" the same rate. Hmmm... makes me think that at minimum you'd see a 15mm difference in ride height (and we generally do at least between the two springs). So, what information that Eibach is giving you wrong?
If it was the same spring in the rear having a different part number for the rear is silly, but they do. We know they don't drop the car nearly the same amount, and that Eibach's QC is poor because some sets of LS1 springs slam the car so far, yet others don't.
You work for Edelbrock, and I can appreciate you trying to prop up what you guys sell. However, you have 18 posts here, and I've been around for a while. Eibach has well known issues with some part numbers. Further, where you rate the spring will effect the rate on a tester. If I took one of my rear springs, which are dual-stage 100-150 springs, but started compressing in at the end of 100 lb rate and into the 150 rate, I could make the spring seem like it's 120, or 130, or 140 or anything in between.
I think you think I've got a problem with Edelbrock. I don't. Again, I sell Edelbrock products (sold a set of Russell lines today in fact). But being in business means I have to give my customers the best advice and information I have. Being independent and buying from WD's vs. direct leaves me the ability to not have to make sales minimums, so that sort of thing doesn't skew my recommendations or opinion.
You convince me that I'm wrong. Eibach's word means squat to me. I've had other companies tell me plenty of things that just weren't true in the end. While you're talking to Eibach ask them why two different Pro-kits that are radically different on spring rate for two cars that are literally within pounds in actual weight? Ask them why they have such variance issues on LS1 Pro-kits? I'm sure they'll tell you how the LS1 is hugely lighter than a LT1 (it's not fwiw) and that they have no issues with ride heights. It's not true and there are plenty of folks here that have had LS1 Eibach's give up height and rate, despite what Eibach might claim.
They claim the LS1 set is 1.3" lower than stock, the LT1 1.2" lower than stock. 1/10th inch is 2.54mm. But yet the springs are 15mm different in free height with "supposedly" the same rate. Hmmm... makes me think that at minimum you'd see a 15mm difference in ride height (and we generally do at least between the two springs). So, what information that Eibach is giving you wrong?
If it was the same spring in the rear having a different part number for the rear is silly, but they do. We know they don't drop the car nearly the same amount, and that Eibach's QC is poor because some sets of LS1 springs slam the car so far, yet others don't.
You work for Edelbrock, and I can appreciate you trying to prop up what you guys sell. However, you have 18 posts here, and I've been around for a while. Eibach has well known issues with some part numbers. Further, where you rate the spring will effect the rate on a tester. If I took one of my rear springs, which are dual-stage 100-150 springs, but started compressing in at the end of 100 lb rate and into the 150 rate, I could make the spring seem like it's 120, or 130, or 140 or anything in between.
I think you think I've got a problem with Edelbrock. I don't. Again, I sell Edelbrock products (sold a set of Russell lines today in fact). But being in business means I have to give my customers the best advice and information I have. Being independent and buying from WD's vs. direct leaves me the ability to not have to make sales minimums, so that sort of thing doesn't skew my recommendations or opinion.
You convince me that I'm wrong. Eibach's word means squat to me. I've had other companies tell me plenty of things that just weren't true in the end. While you're talking to Eibach ask them why two different Pro-kits that are radically different on spring rate for two cars that are literally within pounds in actual weight? Ask them why they have such variance issues on LS1 Pro-kits? I'm sure they'll tell you how the LS1 is hugely lighter than a LT1 (it's not fwiw) and that they have no issues with ride heights. It's not true and there are plenty of folks here that have had LS1 Eibach's give up height and rate, despite what Eibach might claim.
As I do not have the LS1 springs here I am inclined to trust the Manufacturer. I have worked with various spring companies and Eibach is one of the more reliable.
It was always my impression that the rear corner weights of the LT1 and LS1 cars are fairly similar. That is why we utilize the same spring for each vehicle. I would have to look at the files, but I recall the same spring having similar rear ride heights when this was developed. I.e. similar sprung weights. The fronts had more of a variation, hence the ride height adjustability that is built into our kits.
As for our spring rater, it does not give a single rate for a progressive spring, it gives a load deflection curve from free to almost block. (Programmable) It will give the rate at any point in the ride height. Also it is a dynamic spring rater that checks the curve while expanding the spring slowly. It is the model often used by Nascar teams among others.
Attached is a data file from our rater for reference.
Unfortunately or LS1 rear springs are long since gone or I would rate both and post the results. I may be proven wrong and I would accept that. Currently I am going off information from the manufacturer.
I have never called your credibility into question. You definitely have more of a proven competition driving record than me. I was involved with the tuning of this application, and I have driven several vehicles with our kits on them over the years. I am merely pointing out that there may be more to our products than you are aware of seeing how you do not deal with them on a daily basis.
If you are offended that I am not actually aware of which springs we are running by trade name, I apologize. We tested both applications and chose the one that worked better for us. It was 8 years ago and several projects ago. I do recall that one worked well while we disliked the other. As we did this testing for all the vehicles we worked with I checked and the vehicle we used the sportlines on was the Mustang.
I do have a question, and feel free to not answer or answer by pm, but have you ever driven an F-body with our suspension kit on it?
Have a nice evening,
Frank
04-15-2008, 06:45 PM
#47
I am not offended. I have driven your shock and spring setup. I think it's fine, but nothing super special, and without the flexibility I get with a Koni damper and the ability to adjust rebound damping.
Frankly, I've often wished that you guys would make a normal set of shocks. In this day and age with Bilstein dicking up their valvings it's left us with few options that aren't pretty poor for controlling lowering springs decently when Koni's are not an option. But for whatever reason Edelbrock saw fit to only offer the current setup with coil-over on front, but no damping adjustment and no damping, or ride height adjustment and little option on spring rates in the rear. From a driveability standpoint, I'd much rather have flexible dampers than the ability to raise and lower just the front end of a car (really I don't care much about being able to raise and lower either end at will).
I'll tell you now that if Edelbrock were to make a cost-effective set of dampers that would accept (and work well with) lowering springs that are most commonly used, I'd probably sell a bunch of them. How's that for not being anti-Edelbrock?
But as it is $675+ for set of non-adjustable dampers that leaves me still having to buy rear springs isn't a great bargain, especially when not everyone wants lowering springs, let alone adjustable only front ride height.
If you'd like contact me personally so we can further discuss this, that'd be fine with me. But here I am on record saying if you can get me a set of shocks in the $500 range..... where the gap needs filled with the Bilstein issues to also preclude me from doing Revalved versions for lowering springs, I'd be willing to entertain the idea.
Frankly, I've often wished that you guys would make a normal set of shocks. In this day and age with Bilstein dicking up their valvings it's left us with few options that aren't pretty poor for controlling lowering springs decently when Koni's are not an option. But for whatever reason Edelbrock saw fit to only offer the current setup with coil-over on front, but no damping adjustment and no damping, or ride height adjustment and little option on spring rates in the rear. From a driveability standpoint, I'd much rather have flexible dampers than the ability to raise and lower just the front end of a car (really I don't care much about being able to raise and lower either end at will).
I'll tell you now that if Edelbrock were to make a cost-effective set of dampers that would accept (and work well with) lowering springs that are most commonly used, I'd probably sell a bunch of them. How's that for not being anti-Edelbrock?
But as it is $675+ for set of non-adjustable dampers that leaves me still having to buy rear springs isn't a great bargain, especially when not everyone wants lowering springs, let alone adjustable only front ride height.
If you'd like contact me personally so we can further discuss this, that'd be fine with me. But here I am on record saying if you can get me a set of shocks in the $500 range..... where the gap needs filled with the Bilstein issues to also preclude me from doing Revalved versions for lowering springs, I'd be willing to entertain the idea.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
04-15-2008, 07:01 PM
#48
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Sam,
Edelbrock has prototyped standard rod up dampers for the Camaro as part of our private brand program. We manufacture shocks with a piston similar to Bilsteins for several companies under their labels. Our branded marketing push has been to push the IAS.
We are now making externally adjustable dampers for the street rod market, and we may move that technology into other arena's. We have made externally adjustable monotube dampers since 2000.
Frank
Edelbrock has prototyped standard rod up dampers for the Camaro as part of our private brand program. We manufacture shocks with a piston similar to Bilsteins for several companies under their labels. Our branded marketing push has been to push the IAS.
We are now making externally adjustable dampers for the street rod market, and we may move that technology into other arena's. We have made externally adjustable monotube dampers since 2000.
Frank
12-04-2010, 09:23 PM
#49
Edelbrock IAS In a 97 Trans Am Fellas:
Today 4 Dec '10, I installed a set of Edelbrock IAS Performer Coil Over front struts (part# 33031). Very easy to do....MAYBE about an hour per side taking my time. The Struts come with directions to install. Just follow them. They are the same as the Haynes and Chiltons manual direction. Only thing I did diffrent was I did not disconnect the lower steering knuckle. Didnt need to. Like anything else you fix or mod, manuver it the right way and it will come out. Watch the brake lines.....unless you want to remove the caliper. Ialso installed the Edelbrock IAS Performer Shocks (part# 34031) in the rear with Eibach springs (part# 5246) about 2 1/2 months ago, and felt a differance right off the bat from the OEM shock and Eibach Sportline 271915 Spring. I will let you guys know what I think of the front setup in a month or so, but as of know with about 10 miles on the I love them
Today 4 Dec '10, I installed a set of Edelbrock IAS Performer Coil Over front struts (part# 33031). Very easy to do....MAYBE about an hour per side taking my time. The Struts come with directions to install. Just follow them. They are the same as the Haynes and Chiltons manual direction. Only thing I did diffrent was I did not disconnect the lower steering knuckle. Didnt need to. Like anything else you fix or mod, manuver it the right way and it will come out. Watch the brake lines.....unless you want to remove the caliper. Ialso installed the Edelbrock IAS Performer Shocks (part# 34031) in the rear with Eibach springs (part# 5246) about 2 1/2 months ago, and felt a differance right off the bat from the OEM shock and Eibach Sportline 271915 Spring. I will let you guys know what I think of the front setup in a month or so, but as of know with about 10 miles on the I love them
12-05-2010, 04:17 AM
#51
I have had my EDL IAS .........front and rear.......for about a yr now......I bought them mainly because I felt the IAS function (hype?) would make for a better ride and that i could adjust the fronts for ride height....which I did do.......I also installed new rear moog springs with the heater hose mod.......while they are a good shock......I do wish for more adjustability......they seem a little to stiff for my taste....I plan to get konis on all 4 corners with a coil over front mod......so I can enjoy some adjustability
Last edited by sjsingle1; 12-07-2010 at 01:12 PM.
12-05-2010, 10:06 AM
#52
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I've been wanting to hear more about the IAS shocks. I've seen ads on these for YEARS and never really heard much about them.
I'm more/less wondering about experimenting with them on my pickup. But I'll need something with longer travel seeing as I'll be lifting it soon.
I'm more/less wondering about experimenting with them on my pickup. But I'll need something with longer travel seeing as I'll be lifting it soon.
12-05-2010, 11:35 AM
#54
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^ I know we can't really do a C/O in the back, but I just wish we could get a better spring for our cars in a c/o kit.. Even though our cars are essentially that. Other than Strano springs. I want them, but I just want more variety. I'm done with Eibach. Have them on mine now with SLP Bilsteins and I'm tired of the horrible ride.
12-05-2010, 01:26 PM
#55
As far as being done with Eibach......it depends on your setup. When I got the car, it had Eibach Sport line on all 4 corners. TERRIBLE RIDE. Way to low. I have pics of both applications. The Edelbrock IAS are matched with Eibach Pro-Kit 5246 in the rear and PREASSEMBLED with the ones in the front. This setup is ONLY FOR OUR CARS--- F BODIES. So far the fronts are about 24hrs old, and the rear are about 3 months. Love the ride with the rear, and just drove to the store and thought the ride was good with this setup (more to follow). I wont knock Eibach just yet. Like I said...HATED THE SPORT LINE. The setup I have is F BODY ONLY....not universal. One key selling point for me!! Something to think about if you order the IAS front coil over, it comes pre assembled with an Eibach Pro-kit spring. Forget witch one and the spring rate but research it. The whole setup is advertised to lower the car 1.3 to 1.5 inches from factory ride hight. I dont know the factory hight but mine is set at 26 inches front (ground to bottom fender edge) 27 inches in the rear measured the same way. The fronts are fully adjustable to level out the nose. F bodies are known to list to the right 3/4 of an inch or so. At least from what I have seen and read. now she is as close to level as I can get her for now. I will include two pics with this post. a before (with Eibach Sport line) and after (with Eibach Pro-Kit) WITH THE CORRECT AND MATCHED SHOCKS----KEY POINT THEY ARE MATCHED!!!!! Thats on key thing to a great ride. Matched compontes
12-05-2010, 08:29 PM
#56
another point.......to use the adjustability that the front advertises......i had to buy a spanner wrench set at harbor frieght.....as ELD does not make a tool to adjust these......i think as delivered they drop the front about a inch.....i raised it til i had only a 1/4 inch drop.....turning that nut in the car is a PITA
12-05-2010, 09:43 PM
#59
Adjusting IAS Strut I only adjusted my front right strut.....easy to do. I removed the set screw with a 1/8th allen wrench, and stuck a larger allen wrench into the slots around the top of the adjustment ring, turned it from right to left and raised it up about 5 full turns. Then I painted over the bare, what appeared to be brass, area that the top adjustment area was covering to help prevent corrosion and make it look clean. I didn't notice the strut moving at all. If you had this happen, make sure the upper nut on the strut is locked down tight to the upper mounting bracket. If that was loose, I could see the strut turning during adjustment. I will include a pic of the nut I am talking about. As far as adjustment, what do you guys have your struts set at from the fender lip to the ground. Edelbrock or another brand.....and how dose it ride at your hight? Mine is set at 26 inches in the front and 27 in the rear, although the rears are not adjustable. I am wanting to hear your opinions on how your rides handle. thanks
12-05-2010, 09:58 PM
#60
with the heater hose mod my front is just a tad lower than the rear......the free hieght of the new moog rear springs were a inch (or over) taller than the wore out stockers with the spring isolators..........my top shock nut may have been loose contributing to the spinning shock......but i was not going to disassemble the whole thing just to turn that adjusting nut