Edelbrock=shocks?
09-03-2005, 02:06 PM
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Edelbrock=shocks? Have you heard anything about the Edelbrock shocks for f-bodies? they seem pretty good for our cars, but I'd like to hear from those who have already tried them on or even heard about them, feedback?
Thanks!
Thanks!
09-03-2005, 06:00 PM
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http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...12&prmenbr=361
If these are the ones you're talking about, a friend of mine actually had them before his F-bod was parted out, however he was a drag racer. I imagine they couldn't be terrible, however he wasn't a seriously into AX or RR. Other than drag racing, he was an amateur street performer. I'm not too sure if they're user adjustable with concerns with damping and rebound.
If these are the ones you're talking about, a friend of mine actually had them before his F-bod was parted out, however he was a drag racer. I imagine they couldn't be terrible, however he wasn't a seriously into AX or RR. Other than drag racing, he was an amateur street performer. I'm not too sure if they're user adjustable with concerns with damping and rebound.
09-03-2005, 11:31 PM
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Yes Foxxton, these are the ones I'm talking about, they look good, not expensive, and they are made for f-bodies.
I like Edelbrock, but I need to find out if these shocks are a good buy or not though (for street use only, no racing), thanks.
I like Edelbrock, but I need to find out if these shocks are a good buy or not though (for street use only, no racing), thanks.
09-04-2005, 02:18 PM
#6
Damn it, I had a bunch of info on the Edelbrock shocks, but it got lost when LS1 went down. I'll try and tell you what I remember.
Here is a pic
The spring rate is 550lbs. These shocks use a special enertia sensitive valve inside to switch from a firm to a soft valving. I have a set on my 84 caprice and they are amazing. I call them smart shocks. They can sense when the road is smooth and stay firm which is great. Then sense bumps or dips and get soft for a smooth ride. The car responds quickly, almost no lean in corners, 0 nose dive under braking (which is what I liked the most). When you came to a dip in the road, the shocks sensed it and allowed the wheels to drop quickly and then return quickly. The result is that the vehicle doesn't go down into the low spot and then smash the suspension when coming out. They are quite "smart". I truly like them on my other car.
The IAS design requires the shocks to be mounted inverted which if you look at the 4th gen design, you will see that there is no way to use a stock spring. So Edelbrock felt they had to make the fronts as a complete package.
About the only down side is that Sam Strano has seen the insides and felt that the shock as a whole is overly complicated with a lot of small moving parts and therefore more likely the break compared to the more robust Bilstein or Koni. I almost went with the Edelbrocks all around based on my previous experience, but the durabilty concern combined with not know exactly when the shock valving would switch from soft to firm just pushed me towards the more well known and reliable Koni SA and Ground Control package.
I think that for someone who is not into hardcore handling and just wants something that will perform very well while giving a cushy ride over bumps, they would be a good choice.
Here is a pic
The spring rate is 550lbs. These shocks use a special enertia sensitive valve inside to switch from a firm to a soft valving. I have a set on my 84 caprice and they are amazing. I call them smart shocks. They can sense when the road is smooth and stay firm which is great. Then sense bumps or dips and get soft for a smooth ride. The car responds quickly, almost no lean in corners, 0 nose dive under braking (which is what I liked the most). When you came to a dip in the road, the shocks sensed it and allowed the wheels to drop quickly and then return quickly. The result is that the vehicle doesn't go down into the low spot and then smash the suspension when coming out. They are quite "smart". I truly like them on my other car.
The IAS design requires the shocks to be mounted inverted which if you look at the 4th gen design, you will see that there is no way to use a stock spring. So Edelbrock felt they had to make the fronts as a complete package.
About the only down side is that Sam Strano has seen the insides and felt that the shock as a whole is overly complicated with a lot of small moving parts and therefore more likely the break compared to the more robust Bilstein or Koni. I almost went with the Edelbrocks all around based on my previous experience, but the durabilty concern combined with not know exactly when the shock valving would switch from soft to firm just pushed me towards the more well known and reliable Koni SA and Ground Control package.
I think that for someone who is not into hardcore handling and just wants something that will perform very well while giving a cushy ride over bumps, they would be a good choice.
Last edited by JasonWW; 04-15-2008 at 08:00 PM.
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09-04-2005, 08:03 PM
#8
Edelbrock set up the valving to work with the 550lb springs. Same thing if you got Strano to valve you a Bilstein for a 550 and then decided to go stiffer or softer. 50lbs in either direction may not be noticable, but a 650 or higher may cause a noticable change in that the front may be bouncy or the shock may wear out prematurely. I really don't know if it would hurt anything or not. For the average person, 550 should be fine and I doubt they would go and spend an additional $100 for new springs. It just doesn't make sense. If you want a race setup I would not recommend the Edelbrocks, but instead a Koni and Ground Control setup or the LG coilovers.
I think the Edelbrocks are more for the street performance guys who want a balanced package without getting in there and playing with shock valving and such. It should handle well and give a nice ride.
I think the Edelbrocks are more for the street performance guys who want a balanced package without getting in there and playing with shock valving and such. It should handle well and give a nice ride.
09-05-2005, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by zredbeast
Well, these shocks come with the Eibach springs, how low?
09-05-2005, 01:11 AM
#13
Eibach makes hundreds of springs. The ones on this shock look like one of their universal 2.5" race springs which a lot of coilovers use. My Ground Control coilovers use the Eibach universal race springs in a 2.5" inner diameter, 10" free length and 550lb linear rate.
If you look at the part number you will see 1000.250.0550 which I mentioned above.
Here's some info from Edelbrock:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...cks_main.shtml
The valving technology was designed by Ricor who has been making shocks for decades. Edelbrock bought the technology, so it's not like they suddenly just decided to make shocks.
If you look at the part number you will see 1000.250.0550 which I mentioned above.
Here's some info from Edelbrock:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...cks_main.shtml
The valving technology was designed by Ricor who has been making shocks for decades. Edelbrock bought the technology, so it's not like they suddenly just decided to make shocks.
09-05-2005, 01:18 AM
#14
I can't believe I have this because I forgot all about it. This is a quote from Sam Strano about these shocks from March 04. Hopefully he doesn't mind me reposting it. This was also before I found out the spring rate. I only learned that when I called them up and talked to an Edelbrock salesman.
I do have them (or access to them), but I never sell them.
There are a number of reasons for this. While they are mono-tube, they use a piston design nothing like a Bilstein or other race shock. Where the good mono-tubes use deflective discs (washers bascially) that bend @ different loads to give valving changes, the Edelbrock uses a moving "head" that opens and closes, and it only does so on the rebound side. Nothing on the compression side at all (not that it's a big deal, but background info.). The piston is much more complicated and there are more things to maybe break. They are not rebuildable or revalveable.
The built in coil-over is kind of cool, but we don't know the spring rates and the lower you go the more spring you need to keep the car suspended and not riding on bottomed out shocks. etc, etc.
Your buddy is incorrect about the Koni thing. The IAS and the Koni's are NOTHING alike in anyway beyond both being shocks.
You tend to get what you pay for...... Bilstein's are far superior in quality, and if you have stock springs or are not looking for really crisp dmaping etc, you aren't going to do much better. But if you have lowering springs, or want the car more responsive, more "locked down" the HD's, while better, still might not be enough. I know I feel the HD's are too soft for my tastes. FWIW
There are a number of reasons for this. While they are mono-tube, they use a piston design nothing like a Bilstein or other race shock. Where the good mono-tubes use deflective discs (washers bascially) that bend @ different loads to give valving changes, the Edelbrock uses a moving "head" that opens and closes, and it only does so on the rebound side. Nothing on the compression side at all (not that it's a big deal, but background info.). The piston is much more complicated and there are more things to maybe break. They are not rebuildable or revalveable.
The built in coil-over is kind of cool, but we don't know the spring rates and the lower you go the more spring you need to keep the car suspended and not riding on bottomed out shocks. etc, etc.
Your buddy is incorrect about the Koni thing. The IAS and the Koni's are NOTHING alike in anyway beyond both being shocks.
You tend to get what you pay for...... Bilstein's are far superior in quality, and if you have stock springs or are not looking for really crisp dmaping etc, you aren't going to do much better. But if you have lowering springs, or want the car more responsive, more "locked down" the HD's, while better, still might not be enough. I know I feel the HD's are too soft for my tastes. FWIW
09-05-2005, 12:48 PM
#16
Holy cow fellas... First there are TWO setups for the front of a 4th gen. One is a standard shock for use with a stock or stock size lowering spring, the other is the coil-over. There is NOT one Edelbrock for the car. The fact nobody mentioned this little tidbit ought to give you pause about the whole conversation.
They are not particularly inexpensive. A set of Bilstein HD's is less money, and has very similar characteristics. But a much better piston design than the Edelbrock which is most definitely overcomplicated, but more importantly not as flexible in the way it blows off (changes damping).
We now know the spring rates, and 550 isn't bad, but stiffer than most neec. I won Nationals last year with 500's on my car, and that's with 315 R compound tires something few of you will ever have. And because they don't come with anything for the rear, you are left in the situation of having and adjustable ride height and stiffer front end with a pretty stock rear end. You then have to but a set of 4 lowering spring you won't use two of to get the rears which you still can't change the height on, or buying a set of rear weight jackers to get a proper rate and the adjustable height. Better off using lowering springs, or a set of Ground Controls (all 4) on a good shock setup.
They are not particularly inexpensive. A set of Bilstein HD's is less money, and has very similar characteristics. But a much better piston design than the Edelbrock which is most definitely overcomplicated, but more importantly not as flexible in the way it blows off (changes damping).
We now know the spring rates, and 550 isn't bad, but stiffer than most neec. I won Nationals last year with 500's on my car, and that's with 315 R compound tires something few of you will ever have. And because they don't come with anything for the rear, you are left in the situation of having and adjustable ride height and stiffer front end with a pretty stock rear end. You then have to but a set of 4 lowering spring you won't use two of to get the rears which you still can't change the height on, or buying a set of rear weight jackers to get a proper rate and the adjustable height. Better off using lowering springs, or a set of Ground Controls (all 4) on a good shock setup.
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09-05-2005, 02:23 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Sam Strano
There is NOT one Edelbrock for the car. The fact nobody mentioned this little tidbit ought to give you pause about the whole conversation.
And because they don't come with anything for the rear, you are left in the situation of having and adjustable ride height and stiffer front end with a pretty stock rear end. You then have to but a set of 4 lowering spring you won't use two of to get the rears which you still can't change the height on, or buying a set of rear weight jackers to get a proper rate and the adjustable height.
And because they don't come with anything for the rear, you are left in the situation of having and adjustable ride height and stiffer front end with a pretty stock rear end. You then have to but a set of 4 lowering spring you won't use two of to get the rears which you still can't change the height on, or buying a set of rear weight jackers to get a proper rate and the adjustable height.
Edelbrock does offer a rear IAS shock for about $85 ea. It is a coventional looking unit that is also mounted inverted. They also offer the rear lowering springs to complete the package, but I don't know the rate. I don't think the rear is of any big concern. You can do the hose mod on the stock springs and get it down about 3/4". Or you can just trim a coil off the big end, which will lower the rear and increase the rate to about 135lb. Or get the rear GC package at $200. Or the Allstar adjustors for $100 and just trim the pigtail off the spring and invert it. If you trim 2 coils off you get a 155 rate, use hose on the top end and you have a nice springrate with adjustability. Then you could also do the same thing, but use a weight jacker instead of the Allstar. So the back has a lot of choices.
09-05-2005, 03:27 PM
#18
There are two Edelbrock shocks for the car, not just one... Nobody mentioned that....
The springs are Eibach Pro-kits.
Jason, the point about the back wasn't that he didn't have choices. It was that if he goes with the coil-over in the front from Edelbrock not only does he get a shock that's not the best, but he *STILL* has to do something in the rear to lower it. And to do it right, it's going to cost as much or more as other alternatives. FWIW, cutting rear springs is a very poor idea. To begin with you lose the flattened end, and end up with a tail that sticks up and doesn't sit in the isolator properly and causes the spring to bow when a load is applied. The spring rate does indeed go up, but the free length is shortened quite a lot and with a spring that short he could indeed have issues with the spring coming loose, not to mention he still doesn't know what ride height he'll really get.
My point was this thought process will make things a LOT more complicated than they need to be, and the result will be no better or any less costly, but a lot more work.
The springs are Eibach Pro-kits.
Jason, the point about the back wasn't that he didn't have choices. It was that if he goes with the coil-over in the front from Edelbrock not only does he get a shock that's not the best, but he *STILL* has to do something in the rear to lower it. And to do it right, it's going to cost as much or more as other alternatives. FWIW, cutting rear springs is a very poor idea. To begin with you lose the flattened end, and end up with a tail that sticks up and doesn't sit in the isolator properly and causes the spring to bow when a load is applied. The spring rate does indeed go up, but the free length is shortened quite a lot and with a spring that short he could indeed have issues with the spring coming loose, not to mention he still doesn't know what ride height he'll really get.
My point was this thought process will make things a LOT more complicated than they need to be, and the result will be no better or any less costly, but a lot more work.
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09-05-2005, 03:56 PM
#20
I don't know how I can make it any more clear........ There is a conventional shock, and the coil-over one.............
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