BerryWS6

iTrader: (9)

I decided to go with the SLP Bilstiens
Thanks guys fot the comments and entertainment.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Mike, as a vendor who *tries* to make sure the customer knows that we are recommending what's needed first and foremost, I do the best I can to carry a variety of parts. Among them are SLP parts, and we are an SLP dealer. So if I can help you with the shocks you chose, just let me know.

I would recommend something else still, as SLP does not touch the valving on the rear shocks at all (standard HD's), and up front while they add some rebound (good), they also take compression damping away (not so good). Again, these shocks are valved for a set of springs that has more travel than do yours, and are a softer rate (300-450 vs. the springs you have that get over 500 pounds). Shocks are spring dampers, and dampers meant for X spring don't work as well as they should or could when you have X+15% more rate.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

But they'll work just fine for years to come.

And I'm not "trying" to sell anything ...

Damn, Sam ... you sure spend a lot of time on the internet stomping out fires. How do you find the time to talk folks through revalving theory one at a time? Whay not just post it once and link to it.

It would save you mountains of time.

My time-saving tip of the day ...

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I pay for the priviledge of advertising on this site. Because of that I'm allowed to sell not just the products I carry, but also the service I provide by actually knowing of what I speak. If he really wants SLP shocks, and knows why, then I will happily sell those as well for a very competitive price. I'm not sure why Mitch thinks that he has the right to beat on me doing what I pay to do, and do respectfully. I think he should pay to advertise his anti-Stranoparts rhetoric.

Just because I happen to be in business does not mean I'm out to rape you or give you bad advice. If I had no other options for you but what I was trying to steer you toward, I'd hope one would be skeptical. However, that is not the case. Mitch seems to think that I'm a money-grubber and that's all that matters. Quite the contrary, I'm pretty well known for talking folks out of as much that is of no help to them as I am for "pushing" a particular product. If I were out to sell whatever I can, I most certainly would not tell someone that the part they were after won't do what they want it to do.

I sincerely hope that the other people reading this forum are not as close-minded or childish as Mitch is. All I ask is you hear me out. If you don't agree that's fine. But please do not take the word of someone who just likes to throw stones.

I run a good little business. I've met a number of people from the boards. I'm a successful autocrosser with more than one National Championship under my belt. I'm 100% willing to discuss my ideas with anyone who takes the time to contact me and EXPLAIN throughly why I feel certain ways. Not many other business owners do that. I'm sorry that makes me a villian in some people's eyes.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Close-minded and childish ... good one, Sam. It sounds so "grown-up"!

One thing I've learned over my many long years is that in general, people are pretty dog-gone smart or they will smarten up pretty quick.

Sam, the 3rd tip is gonna cost ya, brother.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I agree with you, people are smart and if they aren't they tend to learn fast. I guess I'll have to trust people to look at the arguments on both sides here and figure out who might have the better idea.

I'm quite comfortable with that.

Note: edited for spelling

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Jeesh, you guys always argue like brothers or something. One of you needs to just refuse to continue arguing.

Anyway, Mitch, it does seem wierd that you would give the revalve a 10 when you have just ordered it and not tried it on your car. How can you compare it to your regular HD's at this point in time? Just curious.

Judd

iTrader: (1)

I think Sam was giving sound advice. He never said that HDs would not work, only that they were not perfect for the application. He also gave me the reason his shocks are revalved the first time I called him, it's not like he was trying to keep a secrete. I have bought some things from Strano and have had good experiences and one bad one {took forever to get a 22mm bar} but I can tell you he never talked down to me nor acted like what he was saying was the "end all" in automotive handling. He did however answer my questions and help me out by telling me that I did not need a certain suspension parts. He could have simply sold me the parts but no, he told me that I didn't need them.

Saying that, I bought my shocks from SLP when they had that blowout sale. I also strayed from his advice on car setup by going a bit heavier on spring choice. Heck, once he even told me to try out a major competitor of his {I guess you can figure out who that is} when he thought something of their's actually fit what I needed better than what he had to sell.

Is Sam rather opinionated on what he believes is the best set up, yep. He also seems to get in his fair share of arguments and there is most likely a good reason for that {that's just what certain folks do}. But,,, I honestly don't see how you are implying that the only advice he gives is self serving advice. And remember, it takes two to tango. Please take a look at the pot before calling the kettle black. I'm not taking up for Sam, like I said before I've actually gotten in a good fuss with him over the bars but I sure didn't run around trying to crap in his corn flakes at every opportunity that presented itself.

jasonsny

You are correct, I do work for Edelbrock. But, I do not recommend a product that I do not believe in and the Edelbrock shock fits the parameters of the original question. Am I a shock engineer??? Not by a long stretch, but I have driven Billsteins an an F-Car and a Mustang and the Edelbrock is the best all-around shock I have driven on the street, light-strip and the open track.

98Z28MASS

iTrader: (6)

Haha Ok well now that all of the arguing seems to have subsided, I have a question for sam, would the bilstein HD's work fine out of the box (not revalved) for a stock height 98 z28? I havent decided if I want to lower my car, but i like the stock ride height and not having to worry about bottoming out. In addition, how much would a set of revalved bilstein's be for a 1 inch drop and do you sell springs that are a 1 inch drop? How much would this entire package (shocks and springs) be? Thanks for your time and any info would be great!

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

Sam and Mitch Please play nice. I have learned alot from both of you. You have both helped many guys set up there cars. Now that I have Koni shocks and ground control springs I can not believe how good the car handles. I lowered it 3/4 inch. Works great. I would not have put that stuff on if it had not been for you guys and Jason. SO DONT FIGHT

Z28Mass Springs keep the body off the ground. If you are not lowering you do not need higher rates. HD work fine with stock rate springs. If you wnat to lower your car get ground control springs. Higher spring rate you will need revalves or koni shocks. If you want to corner better get a bigger sway bar. Sam sell the one I would buy his 35mm.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

HD's are intended for stock height applications (stock springs). Will they work fine? Yes, unless you are looking for a more sporting feel like you get in say the german stuff, like an M3. The HD's are excellent everyday damperst that fix most of the issues the DeCarbon's have like the harsh impacts. Also the HD's will cure about 90% of the floating the car has stock, but not all of it. That float is due to a little bit of a lack of rebound control, and if you lack enough rebound to float on stock springs, you can imagine what happens as you higher spring rates, and then mileage piles up on the dampers.

In the end it's a personal feel. The HD's will work for stock springs, and we sell a number of them. I, personally, and knowing I'm more picky about dampers having experienced better ones, still find them a touch too soft for my liking. I'm not looking for a hard ride, or even a harder ride. I just want the car to be very tied-down feeling, generate roll more slowly and just be more stable.

Again, the HD's go a long way to making the car better. If you think better is good enough then fine. I don't, but I'm not you. If it helps, the HD's are what should have been stock on the car. Not firm enough to annoy anyone who might by the car, but also a lot better than what GM actually used.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Thanks ... I too wish it could be different ...

ZaneO

Mitch, your "half-assed ideas" aren't even worthy of being half-assed.

It's really disgusting that you're allowed to incessantly harrass a supporting vendor of this site (without grounds).

Beat98TJ

Hello, one of my engineers sent this to me, and I’d like to clear up some misconceptions regarding Edelbrock shocks in this post.

The Edelbrock shock is also velocity sensitive like any other shock, in addition it is acceleration sensitive and pressure sensitive. The car has 2 independent rebound damping rates one for the chassis and one for the wheel. It provides improved chassis control and improved wheel control at the same time. What this means is that the car will transfer less weight in corners and have superior traction off of a corner, particularly on a bumpy track.

Yes a Monroe Reflex twintube is acceleration sensitive, however comparing it to the IAS system is like comparing a Corvette to a Cobalt, both have 2 doors, are built by Chevrolet and have names starting with C, that is about it. The key to the Edelbrock system is the hydraulic manipulation of the valve. It stays open when it needs to and closed when needed.

The Inertia valve is not controlled by spring pressure, in fact I am not sure where you get that idea at all. It is controlled by gravity, acceleration and hydraulics.
I can say that I have spent a bunch of time in Camaro’s with Eibach springs and Edelbrock shocks as well as Bilstein’s with Eibach Sportline and Pro Kit springs. I have done back to back comparisons. The Bilstein’s were harsher on uneven surfaces and the handling of both cars was comparable. Edelbrock equipped vehicles do have much better off corner traction.

I do realize that our advertising is often focused on ride quality, but we are enthusiasts just like every one else. A sporty car should handle well and we work to that goal. We do not compromise handling for ride quality.

The Edelbrock’s are tuned for the rates that come with the kit, however the flexibility of the inertia valve allows them to work well with a 450-650 lb/in front spring. They are intended to be a sport shock, and not an all out race shock, however they will do fine for a recreational user.
Bilstein makes a fine product as does Koni, and you have every right to support them, but please do not bash our products with false information.

Also is a Penske or Koni a rinky-dink design? Lots of little widgets and springs in those shocks too.

Frank Alioto
Chief Engineer – Edelbrock Shock Division

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

What can I say... I don't think I was bashing, and again I sell and from time to time use Edelbrock products. I'm not a fan of the shocks, I'm sorry.

Penske and Koni both offer the user flexibility through owner controlled adjustments. And yes, there are versions of each that I consider to be comical. For instance, I'm not a particularly huge fan of Koni DA's because I don't like the way the bump adjuster works or how it effects the car. Now, I sell Koni's and a lot of them. And Koni might not like that statement but that's how I feel.

As for the time spent with Eibach's springs. Well that doens't mean whole lot around here. Eibach's springs for LS1 cars and LT1's are drastically different. What's more is some of the springs you mentioned don't even fall within your specified range of damping rates for the front, which makes me wonder even more. If you managed to make your shocks work better than Bilsteins with Eibach's, that's great... but I'm well on record as saying that Bilstein's are not well suited to lowering springs, most especially the version that's been around for the last few years.

Are there, or are there not springs on the IAS valve? Every one of your cutaways that I've seen shows springs, and I assume the springs do something like ope or close the valve or hold it open or closed at given times.

The 2 "independent" rebound rate you speak off.... Um, compression damping controls the unsprung weight or the "wheel". Rebound controls the sprung weight.

Here's the bottom line. I, being able to sell Edelbrock products, have nothing against them if they suited what I wanted. They don't. I'm sorry. Further, the fact that the fronts are only available with Eibach springs and in an adjustable coil over form is problematic because it doens't offer flexibility in picking springs. Very few springs are available as rears only, so even if someone picks your setup, if they dont' want Eibach rear springs, which have had issues, they're pretty much stuck.

Have a nice weekend.

Beat98TJ

No problem whatsoever. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I am not here to bash either, merely to educate. Several of our guys come to this forum and contribute on their own time and they showed this to me. It is clear that I am not going to change your mind and that is fine. I do enjoy a discussion on shocks in my free time.

Unfortunately we are not a spring company. We have had our own springs built by both H&R and Betts in the past. Our relationship with Eibach gives us choices with what we want to develop. They may not be the best choice for every application but they work well for us. I much prefer them to the OEM springs.

When we developed these 2 of our test cars were LT1 (93 and 94) and one was LS1 (98) We introduced a kit that worked well on all three chassis. The Bilsteins were ones we had available to compare to at the time. We also compared to the DeCarbon’s. The LT1 cars were equipped with subframe connectors , shock tower braces and panhards. The LS1 car was stock.

There are two small springs under the inertia valve. They are there to fine tune the effective mass of the valve to compensate for shock angle and motion ratio. This is to fine tune the point at which acceleration opens the valve. They are a small tuning part of the package. In off road trucks with 1:1 motion ratios often they are not used.

With a conventional shock this can be said. The split rebound rate allows for a high resistance to heave and pitch but allows the wheel to rapidly fall out for grip.

If you were to grab our shock, compress it and pull up on it high resistance would be found. If you suspended the shock and pulled down from the bottom, significantly less resistance would be felt.

As a race car driver, you must realize the compromises that are made between handling and grip. I have autocrossed on rough surfaces (runway transitions, Pomona fairgrounds, Hollywood Park parking lot, etc.) and with an adjustable shock often times I would soften rebound to get grip and lose some handling. This shock constantly switches when it detects a bump. I could never react fast enough to switch the damping back and forth. No skipping out over rough terrain, just a smoother transition onto the throttle.

Sam, I did not figure to come here and sway you. I am here so that people on this forum get a clear understanding of the product.

I thank you for the use of the Edelbrock products you do use. As I also preside over the Russell division I am glad to see that you support that division.

If you ever have any questions regarding Edelbrock undercar products feel free to ask me.