Brembo Fbody Brakes?
02-01-2006, 08:43 AM
#41
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I just want to clarify that it has not been proven that the crossdrilling is completely casted in the Porsche Rotors. But they are far superior than any other Crossdrilled rotor out there on the market. Yes the Porsche Rotors will Heat check over time I've had many a set do it . But it all depends on how you drive and how you thermally prepare the rotor prior to repeated braking actions. .
02-01-2006, 11:07 AM
#42
Holes in rotors, when clogged with brake pad residue, don't help ventilation.
It took 5 minutes for 50% or the holes to be clogged. And slots speed that anomoly along ...
I had the Prospeed kit on my car (4 piston Brmbos and 13" rotors) that mimicked the Movit kit. All of a sudden, this "expensive" brake upgrade stopped rotor warpage, pad wear and caliper rebuild woes.
The prospeed type kit is currently available ...
It took 5 minutes for 50% or the holes to be clogged. And slots speed that anomoly along ...
I had the Prospeed kit on my car (4 piston Brmbos and 13" rotors) that mimicked the Movit kit. All of a sudden, this "expensive" brake upgrade stopped rotor warpage, pad wear and caliper rebuild woes.
The prospeed type kit is currently available ...
02-01-2006, 07:39 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by trackbird
Ted, you were doing great until this part:
Slots don't do anything to cool the rotor, and they surely don't prevent cracks. Since they remove mass, it could be argued that they might increase the temps of the rotor. And, I've seen several slotted rotors that have cracked right at the slot (a stress riser is created there and cast iron doesn't like stress risers). Now, we can get into the "NASCAR" style slots, which are not anything like our standard radial pattern slots on our "blingy" street rotors (the standard slot format that everyone seems to use). And we can discuss the fact that a slotted rotor should not be slotted clear off of the edge of the disc (if it is, it will almost be guarenteed to crack at the disc edge of a slot) and the fact that they should be cut with a ball end mill and be round in the bottom of the slot (and on each end where the slot starts and stops) and not have "corners" in the bottom (like using a cylinder shaped bit would leave), etc.
Yes, I'm nit picking a bit, but I feel that you and Precision Brakes have a lot to offer and I'd hate for that to get lost due to a few incorrect (or slightly misleading) statements. I'll be your best friend around here if you have your facts straight, but, I'll also try my best to make sure those facts stay straight. However, if you have scientific information that can be supported that is contrary to this, I'd be more than glad to look at it and discuss it. I'm always interested in learning new things. But, my experience and all information thus far is all contrary to your statement (as are statements from many major brake manufacturers). Again, I'm not being hard on you, but we've (Mitchntx, Roy, I and many others) have gone to great lengths to get people past the "drilled/slotted rotors make my car stop sooooooo much better because they are soooooooo high tech and race cars use (used) them" and explain why they are driveway jewlery (slots can be beneficial at an increased risk of cracking of the disc) that I'd hate for that to become undone now.
We tried to prove that the Porsche rotors were cast with holes (someone on another board (who owns a brake company) put out an offer of cash for proof that they were cast with holes, all we could find were pictures of smooth molds and nothing to indicate that they are cast with holes, and the information from various Porsche "sources" was also not able to substantiate that they were cast with holes. It appears to be a marketing myth) and couldn't. Also, as already shown, the Porsche rotors crack just like most others (maybe not as easily, but that's a function of the thickness of the cheeks and the overall design). One thing that you'll see on Porsche or similar (high quailty) drilled rotors is that they will drill 1/2 way through the cooling vein in the rotor. This helps to reduce the possibility of cracking due to the additional mass of the vein and by removing the "edges" of the inside of the holes, where cracks can form.
Stop safely!
Slots don't do anything to cool the rotor, and they surely don't prevent cracks. Since they remove mass, it could be argued that they might increase the temps of the rotor. And, I've seen several slotted rotors that have cracked right at the slot (a stress riser is created there and cast iron doesn't like stress risers). Now, we can get into the "NASCAR" style slots, which are not anything like our standard radial pattern slots on our "blingy" street rotors (the standard slot format that everyone seems to use). And we can discuss the fact that a slotted rotor should not be slotted clear off of the edge of the disc (if it is, it will almost be guarenteed to crack at the disc edge of a slot) and the fact that they should be cut with a ball end mill and be round in the bottom of the slot (and on each end where the slot starts and stops) and not have "corners" in the bottom (like using a cylinder shaped bit would leave), etc.
Yes, I'm nit picking a bit, but I feel that you and Precision Brakes have a lot to offer and I'd hate for that to get lost due to a few incorrect (or slightly misleading) statements. I'll be your best friend around here if you have your facts straight, but, I'll also try my best to make sure those facts stay straight. However, if you have scientific information that can be supported that is contrary to this, I'd be more than glad to look at it and discuss it. I'm always interested in learning new things. But, my experience and all information thus far is all contrary to your statement (as are statements from many major brake manufacturers). Again, I'm not being hard on you, but we've (Mitchntx, Roy, I and many others) have gone to great lengths to get people past the "drilled/slotted rotors make my car stop sooooooo much better because they are soooooooo high tech and race cars use (used) them" and explain why they are driveway jewlery (slots can be beneficial at an increased risk of cracking of the disc) that I'd hate for that to become undone now.
We tried to prove that the Porsche rotors were cast with holes (someone on another board (who owns a brake company) put out an offer of cash for proof that they were cast with holes, all we could find were pictures of smooth molds and nothing to indicate that they are cast with holes, and the information from various Porsche "sources" was also not able to substantiate that they were cast with holes. It appears to be a marketing myth) and couldn't. Also, as already shown, the Porsche rotors crack just like most others (maybe not as easily, but that's a function of the thickness of the cheeks and the overall design). One thing that you'll see on Porsche or similar (high quailty) drilled rotors is that they will drill 1/2 way through the cooling vein in the rotor. This helps to reduce the possibility of cracking due to the additional mass of the vein and by removing the "edges" of the inside of the holes, where cracks can form.
Stop safely!
Good call trackbird. The function of a slotted rotor is not to dissapate heat. One could argue that there is a very marginal release of heat due to the slots but it wouldn't be a valid argument as its not the point of a slotted rotor. Our goal is to bring real world results from on track racing experience to the street car enthusiast. If a brake system withstands the torturous abuse of racing over a period of time, it will make an outstanding product for the street car enthusiast who may only put his or her car on track periodically.We hope to make the open track experience as worry free as possible with a proper performance braking system that meets the need. . As we have years of experience racing with pbr calipers in a v8 pony car class the pbr caliper has not been up to the task. We are not too concerned with occasional 70 to 0 stops. We are concerned about braking consistancy over the period of a race. Precision Brakes and myself have developed brake kits to fit the rules of our class. We have worked together for an outstanding upgrade from the pbr to a full race brake system that is very cost effective. It will over time reduce consumable costs for a racer. We have eliminated the worries of excessive deflection issues with the pbr caliper by upgrading to a superior brake system. With excessive pad taper in the pbr, we can only use a brake pad halfway before we must throw it away. As I see many outstanding cars on this website, I would hate anyone to start doing track days without some sort of upgrade to reduce risks to yourself as most open track cars do not have roll cages. As I am a nationally licensed scca racer, and nationally licensed Porsche club instructor, I help instruct with open track events in my area including Corvette,Viper,BMW, and Mustang Clubs. My number 1 upgrade suggestion to the new open track person is brakes. For some of the above cars I listed, it may be as simple as a different brake pad selection or additional brake ducting, or different brake fluid suggestion. For pony cars it takes a little more effort to get to the braking performance of some of the above cars. But is attainable. Its an important issue to me to keep people safe when they are enjoying their cars on a race track.
Ted
racingbrakesolutions@***.net
Last edited by trj20; 02-01-2006 at 08:05 PM.
02-02-2006, 03:04 PM
#44
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I dont think stoptech would be cutting corners. They were testing different brake setups on a supra on speedvision. The tested the wilwood, baer, stoptech, and a couple others. The stoptechs actually worked the best. Supposedly more testing went into the design of the brakes rather than just building the biggest thing they could. Just a thought.
02-02-2006, 07:11 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by blackstang3o2
so if the bear sport kit is no good at 800. what kit provides the best bang for you buck. and where to get it? I have a 96 lt1
www.racingbrakesolutions@***.net
Ted Johnson
02-03-2006, 08:11 PM
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I'm looking for a lightweight rotor in the stock size. The car is still street driven, are there options out there?
Last edited by DrkPhx; 02-03-2006 at 08:44 PM.
