well, im sure you'll be recieving a call from me within the next few weeks Sam.
Alex

 

Some of you still dont get it. Some people just want to spend less, not by choice might i add. Not all of us work just to mod our cars.! with an endless budget. And So what if the Konis are cheaper sumwhere else? Last time i checked price matching and competion was still part of free enterprisin and ecommerce. I agree with yellow, Sam trys a lil too hard to force feed you with his vastless knowledge. Their is a definte need for good advice from an experienced racer, but that would apply to a similar person not all the daily drivers. I just think this whole thread went south when some people saw the price of Konis on that one site and sumone else suggested GCs. WTF?????? Alotta hate and blockin is whats coming thru. BTW I want Konis, but not by choice I would rather spend half the price of Konis, but apparently according to most thats the only shock that works with my current springs. No I dont auto X or race yet... I just want a compatible shock. Go figure. Konis in my future, purchase from where? Still deciding.

 

We get it. I was just saying that it was not fair to say "I bought all of this stuff on ebay, what would it have cost from you". Comparing new to used stuff of unknown history is not exactly fair and mostly pointless. That was my point.

There are an awful lot of us who try to share our knowledge. Not that we know it all, but many of us have learned things the hard way. It gets frustrating when people keep giving advice when they have no experience with a product. Some will say "(insert lowering spring here) springs will work great with stock shocks, you don't need aftermarket shocks", then we find out that that person has never driven a car with aftermarket shocks. So, how would they know how much better the car could be? They wouldn't. But, after 3 or 4 people say that, someone else decides to try it because "it works fine", or so they were told. Can you do it? Sure. Is it optimum? Not a chance. Many of us will go out of our way to advise that person that they'd be considerably happier with better shocks. 3 people will call us idiots, 2 more will bitch about the price, and 4 will say they have the best setup ever with those springs and stock shocks. I, and others, wouldn't be here trying to help if we hadn't learned most of this stuff the expensive way. This doesn't mean we have all the answers (nor do you have to listen), but we can often cover most of them. I never claimed to know it all, but I often try to save others money and frustration.

And I still don't think that every car on the road needs Ground Control stuff. I'm only running the rears on my car and I managed to win a regional SCCA championship on them this year (and I'm not running the GC fronts, and I don't miss them at all). Is it good stuff? Sure, is it required? No.

And I still say that most cars here qualify as drivers more than anything else (and that's not a bad thing).....

 

I had stock shocks on my car when I installed my DMS springs last year, rode like ****, bottomed out all the time. Installed my front Koni's and it was night and day difference. Thats my experience, I'll be getting my rear Koni's this summer and can't wait.

 

onEmEAN z are you goin to get the 3rd Gen. ones or the 4th ones for the rear? BTW I'm fed up myself of the stockers shockers.!!! They got bout 75k on them plus they ride on my Hypercoils. I dont bottom out but man lately it seems I got a bouncy feel on the freeway and Im gettin fed up with that, I figure bottoming out will prob happen next. And on a side note the stockers have been on for over a yr, and are now just giving me hell. The car didnt drive like that at first but then again I knew the stockers werent goin to handle the Hypercoils. I'm surprised that they even held that decent for this long.!!!! And yes it was all daily driving no extreme racing aside from your usual Highway Blast.

 

2000Z, I'll be going with the 4th gen Koni's...not becaue of quaility but because I'm lazy as hell and want to adjust the shocks while there on the car.

 

So wats the diff between the 3rd rears and the 4th exactly im still in the dark a bit on that subject.?

 

Sam explained it to me like this, the 3rd gens have 4 settings. You have to take the shocks off the car to adjust them.

The 4th gen shocks can be adjusted while on the car, and have a little more "fine tuning"

Quality for both shocks there is no difference. I'm sure Sam will chim in and add anything I forgot

 

I called Sam about buying Koni shocks in October. I didn't buy them until the middle of January because that's how long it took me to set aside enough money to feel comfortable making a big purchase like that. $800 is NOT a small amount of money to me, and my wife and I both make good salaries. I don't work just to mod my car, I work to make enough money to live the lifestyle I want to live. I spend my money on plenty of other things, some hobbies and some necessities.

I chime in on topics like these because I'm one of the people Trackbird talked about. I bought new lowering springs and cheap shocks. Compared to stock springs with stock shocks, it really wasn't that much worse, but it also wasn't really that much better. I had no other basis of comparison, but as time went on, I became increasingly interested in improving my handling.

As for the price thing, if you can find the same parts cheaper, then more power to you. However, what Sam is saying is some companies set rules for how much less than list a part can be sold for. If the manufacturer gets wind of this happening, the company will likely not be allowed to sell that part any more. Sam isn't the type of person to go calling Koni and "tattling" on a company.

This is not a cheap hobby. But it becomes needlessly expensive when you have to do the same mod twice because you are unhappy with the results.


-Mike

 

You can say that Mike, I bought DMS springs last year. I have since sold them and will be buying different springs that Sam recommends. Shoulda just bought the better ones the first time and wouldn't be in this situation.

 

The third gen Koni SA's have 4 adjustment settings. You must pull the bottom of the shock loose from the axle, reach up to the top of the shock body, push a button and twist the shock to change the settings. Then, you let go of the button, put the plastic cap back on the top of the shock body, bolt it to the axle and drive.

The 4th gen versions you simply lay down the seat, fold back the flap of carpet, put a **** on top, turn the ****, remove the **** and put the seat back up.

The 4th gens are also variable. You have about 2.5 "turns" of that **** and can use any setting in there (there are no detents, just turn it and go). So it's much more adjustable and much easier to set.

 

Worse... Monroe (and I'm not kidding). But there is a qualifier.... When companies make shocks for OEM's, they do it to the OEM's specifications. So, "Porsche" Monroe's aren't so bad. And when they build their Sport suspension cars, they usually have Bilstein's. I mention this because someone, somewhere would have discovered this and then think that Monroes are the BEST! Simply a contracting job.....

deCarbon's are a fine design, GM just completely messed up the valving. The Bilstein's they sell for Ford Lightnings and TRD trucks are different valvings than those two OEM's put in their "OE" Bilstein's. And on and on.

 

Because of the nature of my business there will always be those who think I'm out to make as many bucks as possible. They further think that because I often recommend Koni's. I'm only interested in selling the person what is going to work best for them. Sometimes that costs more money, and sometimes I stop them from buying hundreds of dollars worth of stuff they were planning on too! And if I were out to rape folks, wouldn't it stand to reason that I'd recommend not just Koni's, but Double Adjustable Koni's for everyone? They are some $500 more for a set of 4!!! I carry them, I own them. I feel they are overkill for most anyone (myself included). Do you see me pushing those? No.

And for the record, I have a MANY customers on here with HD's @ $329 a set. If they fit what the needs and desires of the owner are, then that's what I use. Why does everyone get revved up and think I think Koni's are the ONLY option? I'm the guy who is responsible for the Revalved Bilstein's as a cost effective, but more performance oriented measure. I'm the guy that informed you all about the ability to lower with the Koni's, and that in many cases (not all by any means) extra money spent on springs was wasted if the job could be done without them.

Those of you who think I'm disingenuous and this is all a sales pitch would be wise to start reading, and reading a lot of old posts and threads. I've got a pretty damn good reputation (which I'm pround of and work hard to keep) for being the guy who tells it like it is, whether it makes me money or not. You know the saying you can please all of the folks some of the time, or some of the folks all the time? I'm rather please all my folks all the time and do less volume, than be all things to all people. If you are looking for someone who's honest and will lay it out for you, call me. If you just want a parts pusher, don't..... Your choice, but I do "get" it.

BTW, this particular mess started wtih the recommendation of coil-overs (which cost more) over springs. I feel the springs would likely be just fine, and said so. That's the *CHEAPER* option of the two, not the more expensive one.

And whille shocks aren't cheap, they are one place you REALLY, REALLY want to spend the good money on the suspension. Hence the reason I work so hard to educate folks, and not so hard pushing many of the other cheaper products that are much less effective (and often not even the right part for the job). Folks just tend to buy things based on heresay. I'm out to change that and have folks buy parts based on what they need.

 

And good job to OneMeanZ and Trackbird. Awesome descriptions of the differences between shocks!!!!

 

hey strano are u gonna have any group purchases any time soon.

 

One thing I don't get is why some of the most knowledgeable people on these forums who take the time to give reliable, proven advice to people who want and need it regarding what to get for their cars always end up having to defend themselves by the end of the thread. They're accused of trying to rape people and push unnecessary parts just because the best solution for their problem happens to be expensive. I've heard the expression "no good deed goes unpunished", but when I see it happen it never ceases to amaze me.

I'm a customer of Sam's, and I couldn't be happier. I bought a Ground Control setup (no, he didn't push it, I asked for it) to go with the Koni's I already had. The main reason I bought from him was that the few dollars more I spent is worth it considering the fact that I get the benefit of his knowledge and experience in setting up and racing 4th-gens. I told him what I wanted to do, he gave me his recommendations for spring rate and shock settings and I bought them. I also bought a set of his custom sway bars since he felt the ST bars I liked were too heavy and too stiff in the rear. I thought that the sway bar and the spring rate choices he gave me were a little unusual (600 lbs/in sounded painful) but I took him up on it. And he was right. The car rode and handled exactly like he said it would. It's a night and day difference from my last car that I set up with X spring and X shock and chassis bracing and every control arm in the car replaced. Sam saved me the time and expense of another suspension trial-and-error session, and to me that's priceless.

While there will always be part pushers out there, rest assured Sam is not one of them. I would recommend him to everyone I know looking for suspension help. Can you find parts cheaper somewhere else? Possibly. Are they going to take the time to help you set it up and explain to you what's best and why? Don't hold your breath.

On second thought, maybe some of you should hold your breath. That way guys like Sam and Trackbird won't have to deal with so many ignorant people bitching and moaning.

 

Hands down the best post ever man. I agree 110% on this. It sucks watching Sam and others having to defend themselves. It blows my mind, couldn't have said it better myself man.

 

how do the koni shocks feel when launching at the track???

 

Afraid not... Already sell for the minimum I'm really supposed too. And frankly, GP's never go smoothly. You get 20 saying they are in, and 8 follow through.

Those are the two biggest reasons why you won't see GP's from me in general. I'll just flat put something on sale instead of try and work the system.