contraststriker

iTrader: (14)

I'm in the market for new front brakes thanks the LT1 single-piston setups completely sucking. Just wanted to know if anyone has used or has heard stories about C5 and Baer kits.

Baer GT+ 13.15": $1080, plain rotors included
Complete C5 12.8" conversion from UMI Performance: $720, rotors not included

Which is a better buy? I'm assuming that Baer will outperform C5 brakes, but I'm not looking for autocrossing. I simply want to be a able to stop quicker--it seems I need a space shuttle runway right now.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

I absolutely don't blame you for wanting out from the front single piston of the LT1. Even on the street, mine seemed to fade quickly, even after stainless steel lines, improved brake fluid, and improved pads.

As far as the Baer GT+ caliper and the C5 caliper, they're both manufactured by PBR and appear very much the same, so I believe they could be the exact same caliper. As far as the floating rotor of the Baer GT+, it might be lighter, however it appears to be a different sized "eradispeed" rotor. When one stock replacement set of eradispeeds were weighed against stock rotors, the weight difference was very minute (I'd say negligible) with the eradispeed weighing slightly more. I know that the extra thickness of the eradispeed could be helpful for longevity, but they might not be that much thicker.

The one thing I of course adamantly disagree with on the Baer GT system would be the cross-drilled rotors, which is well infamous around this forum for reasons that are listed in the sticky.

FAST LS1

iTrader: (2)

I have the Baer GT+ brake system with the drilled rotors. True the drilled rotors don't do anything but lighten the rotor, but with how large the rotors are, every little bit helps. The extra thickness also helps, and is the reason I believe you have to upgrade to the C5 spec calipers that come in the kit. I got the kit for substantially less than the price you posted at a year end sale, so that's why I chose the Baer GT+ system.
By the time I would have bought the larger rotors, new pads, and C5 caliper relocation kit, it wasn't worth cobling a system together. It was cheaper to get the Baer kit on sale and have a proven complete system.
With that said it probably doesn't stop substantially better than the stock calipers relocated with non-drilled rotors. I'd go for whatever gets you closest to the C5 setup for the most reasonable price.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

For the miniscule weight lost from cross-drilling, you lose considerable rotor material mass from the friction ring surface area, thus lowering effective pad to rotor friction and material mass for proper absorption and dissipation of heat. These duties are much better suited for ventilation between the rotor friction surfaces. The rotor face patterns create uneven and premature pad wear as well. Regardless of thickness, cross-drilled rotors are a supreme hell to resurface if needed, even with using the "race pad with low street speed" resurfacing process. Real unsprung weight savings would be better yielded through an aluminium hat instead. I used to have cross-drilled/slotted friction rings on my brake system, and eventually those problems reared their ugly heads, even on the street.

It's your decision in the end, however I say stick with your original plan in your first post by opting for the plain rotor, regardless of either system chosen.

contraststriker

iTrader: (14)

Damn...I read the sticky and am now quite discouraged from drilled rotors. Don't hate me for saying this...but IF I'm not autocrossing, it's doubtful that I'll really develop cracks in slotted/drilled rotors, right? I am willing to sacrifice slightly to have a better looking rotor...I know that sounds bad, but again I'm upgrading brakes for better emergency braking, not really track on and off braking. There have been a couple times (deer) when I know the brakes just weren't as good as they should be for an f-body's weight. Sorry if my ignorance shines through

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

No problem with what you're asking. You're learning while being patient, prudent and objective, not being hostile and ignorant.

I completely understand what you want, and for what you want, you should really opt for no holes. You want improved performance for braking in your daily driver, however in any case, the holes/slots/dimples/patterns (whatever they're called) only yield "improved looks" or "aestetics in looks", but as you read, they just don't help with any type of performance, with one exception.

If you are using a pad with a compound that outgasses beyond it's bed in, that's really where the holes are necessary. Most continuous outgassing was from obselete compounds used in pads from about the late 60's to early 80's, and probably not even that long. Practically no pads do this today after the mandatory bed-in, especially street compound pads. Once again, most street pads don't do this after a proper bed in period. They can create excessive dust but the holes are not needed for that.

Believe me, when you are going to bed in the rotors, and you will have to bed them in, you will be heating the rotors considerably while doing that. During that time, you run the risk of cracking as well. Even if you are daily driving with lots of hard braking, you shouldn't even consider the holes as they will hurt your performance much more than to help it. Rotor face patterns are mostly fancy marketing and less truthful science.

You don't have to take my word for it. Just for kicks, perform a search with drilled rotors, and you'll see from a majority of AXer's and RRer's who are adamently against it as well. Bear in mind that many AX categories in several sancions have cars that must be within stock or near stock configuration, and they rarely ever approach speeds over 70mph or last as long as a RR, and they are adamantly against using drills and slots on rotors.

musclehead

iTrader: (2)

IMO, you can't got wrong with either of the two. They are both good brake kits. I personally went with the Baer GT+ kit.

Here are a few pics for ya.

FAST LS1

iTrader: (2)

The weight savings is measurable on the larger 13.125" diameter rotors with the drilling and aluminum hat. That was another reason I didn't mind the drilled rotors and slight price increase compared to the plain rotors.
Also I warped three sets of plain rotors, I've had no warping with the current Baer drilled rotors with the aluminum hats. Not scientific proof that they're better, but it's enough to convince me
I don't auto-x my car regularly even though I have, I also go to the dragstrip, but not regularly. In both cases I think I made the right decision for the money, very small weight increase over the stock setup with the improved braking, and for only about $750.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Good explanation (btw, I also see you participate regularly over @ frrax, so I think your pretty much know your stuff). I do have one question though about your experience.

When you had the plain rotors, were they "OE style" non-floating rotors, or were they the floating rotors like your current install, but with plain friction rings?

With my friend's Baer GT system, he used the stock non-floating rotor and sure enough, the same thing you encountered as well. When he switched to what you're operating, no warping, but stress risers set in, and he had to replace the ring (but that's the ring only!) He mentioned what happened, so I advised him to see if he can get a replacement friction ring without the face patterns like mine, and he did. About 42K later, with about 800 miles of hard open tracking, problems solved.

Again just my 2 cents in addition to what I'm asking above.

FAST LS1

iTrader: (2)

They were the OEM rotors that warped.
For people on frrax the Baer GT+ system is probably a waste, then again they're budget brake kits are Porsche retrofits. For most people on here the Baer GT+ kit will be more than enough of an upgrade. Like i said I looked at the C5 brackets, but with new rotors and pads and it was worth it to step up to the total kit. I bought my Baer's on sale for ~$750 which was very comparable to a pieced together C5 bracket kit.
For hardcore open road racers or even avid auto-xers these brakes probably aren't up to the task. For occassional use in auto-x and drag racing they have been a worth while upgrade for me.
I also didn't want to add a couple pounds of unsprung weight with the bigger brake kits.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

That's good to know, thanks for the response.

52172

iTrader: (2)

I paid 750 also on sale a TBYRNE can't beat that and they look sweet.

firefighter

Just so you guys know (did alot of research recently went C5) the Baer GT caliper is the same as the C5/C6 caliper just different name on them. I confirmed this with BAER. So really you decision comes down to rotor size/weight and then looks. If bling factor is very important I'll tell you it's alot of work getting a factory caliper casting smooth and then you should powder coat them not spray them. Then you gotta get into the controversy of the rotor drilling and slotting.

BTW I did a 4 wheel conversion on my blazer C5 fronts and LS1 rears for $900. All the calipers were used but I rebuilt them and painted them and all new rotors and Hawk pads I also had to buy the conversion brackets for the front and the backing plates for the rears with all new SS brake lines.

52172

iTrader: (2)

Just so YOU know you might be right as the calipers being the same as the GT kit , but we here are not talking about the GT kit we are talking about the GT + kit which uses bigger and thicker two piece rotors which no way are similar to c5 rotors FYI.

Frosty

iTrader: (17)

He said the caliper is the same.

firefighter

Nice way to respond to some body trying to give some helpful info. J/O. and also the only difference between the GT and the GT+ is the rotors.

firefighter

Thanks Frosty. For actually reading my post and sticking up for me.

Frosty

iTrader: (17)

No problem, I had a different type of response typed out but I changed and decided to be civil. I really can't stand when people come into a thread and try to throw around some knowledge and it turns out to be wrong lol

1QUIKWS6

iTrader: (61)

I don't have any experience with the C5 conversion - but I do have the Baer GT+ system. One thing I can tell you from my experience is to be ready for some cutting/grinding mods when installing the Baer GT+

You will have to cut your factory spindles to install the new caliper bracket. I then found that due to the thickness of the 2-pc Eradispeed rotor - the weld that runs around the nose of the lower control arm was solidly hitting the backside of the rotor. This entailed grinding the weld all the way around the nose smooth and flush with the control arm nose. This fact was overlooked in the Baer instructions?

Also if you have 17" TTII wheels as I do - plan on grinding the fins on the calipers back to some extent as they also will mate up solidly to the slight diameter reduction area of the wheel directly behind the spokes. After all that - you will have a good braking system

The lower control arm issue may vary from car to car due to mfg. process, but the other (2) issues are a given. When you install make perfectly sure that you spin the rotors over by hand (after installing (2) lugs to hold the rotor in proper position) and turn the wheels lock-lock to check for ANY interference issues prior to bolting wheels on and taking for a drive.

Just wanted to let you know what you're in for...





-Jay-

firefighter

I sure as hell can't deny that thoes Baer calipers are gorgeous but the main reason I went with the C5 versus the Baer kit is well Baer doesn't make one for my truck and I found a guy who makes a set of C5 brackets I was pleased to find out the calipers were the same. I thought about buying the Baer calipers and act like I had a Baer kit but they want $225 a caliper (WOW!) so I quickly forgot about those. It varies kit to kit on the "mods" you need to make but on my kit "which pretty much has nothing to do with a F-body" it was just a little grinding. Most of what I've seen on F-body stuff there were some mods though.

Frosty thanks again.