LS1FIRE

iTrader: (1)

I been thinking about getting the LG Coilover kit for some time. Our local drag strip will be closing down.
So i been thinking about drasticly improving the handling of my car.

The car is a street car but hardly driven.Is the damping adjustable? The drag strip will be closing but how drasticly will this suspension settup effect 1/4th peformance?

Also I plan on getting a aftermaket rear end in the future. I understad that the LG coilover kit coverts the rear suspension to a coil over system. Is the Rear coil over system compatable with aftermarket rears?

How many of yall running these on your cars? How do yall like it? What do yall think of this setup? How long do they hold up?

I drive my car a couple times a month. I looking forward to imporve highspeed handling and conering and to improve tight twisty grip conering and response. I looking to lower no more then a inch. Is this kit good idea for me? What can i expect from it?

Current suspension mods i have are STB LCA and brackets ADJ trackbird PHB and SFC.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

It can improve handling of the vehicle, but for vehicle that isn't in RR very often, it's mostly overkill. The damping is user revalvable, but not externally adjustible. Unless you have a access to a nitrogen tank, a nitrogen damper pressure guage, and a good supply of shock oil, and are familiar the task of servicing a rebuildable and revalvable mono-tube shock, you'll have to rely on a service professional for it (either LGM or Bilstein).

The system consists of Bilstein motorsports ASN shocks on all fours with Hypercoil coil-over springs. An example is shown here from the Bilstein catalogue, pg. 9: http://www.bilstein.com/motorsports_cat.pdf


Basically the front upper shock mount is a stock one modified with a Coleman racing rod end adapter, so the stock upper spring perch along with most of the bushings are eliminated. Also, they use spherical bearings that must be replaced periodically, though I have used another set on my street Camaro with Aurora spherical bearings, and they last long and are dead quiet.

Sometime in a few months, Bilstein should be introducing an adjustible shaft option that will allow the shock to be externally adjustible, but I haven't been informed quite yet (I deal with the one in Poway, CA every so often for parts).

Bear in mind that since the system allows any motorsport shocks with dual spherical bearings on each end to be fitted, you have an option of more than just LG recommended Bilsteins alone (even ones with fancy 4-way adjustment as well with a wide range of settings), but for a considerable higher cost. Another thing to mention is with the dual spherical bearing mounts, you have the option of inverting the shocks, which yield less unsprung weight, however some who have the system have somewhat large front swaybars so they opt not to invert for clearance reasons. Unless the rear cantilever mounts have been modified (a member over at frrax has done this), there is practically no way to invert the ones in the rear (unless, you use an axle mounted weight jacker instead). Again, this is with the Bilstein ASN's themselves and not necessarily other shocks that fit the mounts.

As long as the aftermarket rear has mounts for the lower stock cantilever fittings, then you should have no problem mounting it to the rear axle.

Only their spring heights are readily adjustible, which in AX and RR yield much more importance than just ride heights and Cg alone. Cornerweights and wedge are essential as well, so just about any coil-over will allow that advantage as well.

As you know, valving requirements for dedicated drag racing are quite departed from AX and RR. With everything else held equal, your 1/4 mile times will suffer, just don't know to what extent.

Since you mention that your vehicle will be a daily driver with only driving your car a couple times a month, you could consider other options, even with an aftermarket rear end. While the G2 custom coil-over suits the needs of an active AX and/or RR, it's probably going to be overkill in case like yours, especially since you mention that you desire to just ride at 1" drop on the street.

I say that if you are looking a a reliable street shock with fancy features, you could consider Koni SA's with some sort of OE replacement 1 inch lowering spring (a la Hotchkis), and if you feel that you could use a weight jacker system, you then could consider Ground Control, global West, and some others, but beware if you try to adapt a Ground Control to a Koni, you will not only have a much more difficult installation to deal with but also endanger your warranty.

LS1FIRE

iTrader: (1)

Thank you very much for the very good reply.

I really dont know much and dont know whats needed to make the car handle better but I like the fact that the rear suspension is converted to a true coilover. The other coilover systems out there seem to complicated compared to LGs true coil over unit. I may want to lower the car more then a inch future and may get into it. When you say overkill what do you mean by that,how does the car react and how does it drive? Do you run your car on the street allot? I probaly put about 3600 miles a year on the car. I couldnt find the kit on LGs website. Thanks again.
If anybody has any info to share it would be great.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Even though it isn't on their website, they still sell them.

Even though I'm happy with what I have, don't be fooled into the whole "true coil-over vs. non-true coil-over argument." If it's adjustibility you desire, then you should look for adjustibility, and not so much where the coils are exactly placed. The stock location is right near the rear shocks anyway. As far as complexity, the other systems aren't really as "complex" as the G2 custom coil-over. What I meant by overkill is that a lot of money will be spent not to make the car handle way better than say a system that costs less than a grand, the shocks are devised to take the beatings of a road course and serious AX, the adjustibility is for those who are constantly under their car spending nearly twice the amount of time to adjust, than what they will do for each race in the actual seat. Like the many expensive big brake kits, the G2 coil-overs will make very little improvement for the street as compared to much cheaper counter parts (why people opt for C5 brake conversions instead of high priced systems that I have listed below). That said, with the amount that you'll be putting on the car, it's way overkill. Also be advised that these shocks need quite a bit more attention for maintenance than high performance street shocks. Anytime you change ride height, you change the overall suspension geometry, thus needing a proper alignment when whenever you change ride hieghts.

A car's handling is really in it's shock's valvings and it's spring rates to match, with also an appropriately matched sway bar set to control body roll. Coil-overs are not necessary to yield what's above for a car that's barely driven, especially one for the street and the occasional drag race. Ride heights can yield a better centre of gravity, however you compromise suspension movement. I should also note that the biggest improvement to overall handling is proper weight distribution and less overall body weight. Contrary to popular consensus on this board, the 4th gen chassis is way stiff for most non-track applications, therefore with a good set of streetable shocks, adding STB's and SFC's will have no great effect, other than just adding dead weight. Only convertibles and NOT T-tops need SFC's. None of them need STB's regardless of being a convertible or not. I know this from nearly 10 years of racing in a 4th Gen Camaro .

As far as lowering the vehicle, it isn't advised to lower much more than 1.5 inches all around. Again, ride height doesn't translate into much improved performance on every vehicle. You must bear in mind that if you lower toward 1.5 inches all around, you'll discover that your suspension travel will be compromised, meaning that you can easily bottom out on the bumpstops if your not carefull with ride height, not to mention that you can bottom out the shocks, which will void any type of warranty. AFA the G2 coil-overs, you must be advised that since they use Bilstein motorsport shocks or other type of motorsport shocks, and not ones that are sold for street cars, they are really a race specific part, therefore, not warranteed. LG might have their own warranty, however if a user makes a mistake, any technician/engineer can spot the mistake and refuse to warranty an item.

Also bear in mind that your suspension setup is as only as good as what tyres you have installed. Having cheap tyres that don't have a good grip will make a quality suspension probably not much better than a stock one with cheap tyres. Yes, you will still feel a difference in the suspension, however the tyres are repsonsible for the vehicles grip on the road.

My advice before buying any suspension items like what I mention? Get some decent track time and learn the fundamentals of handling and braking. People hate when I say this, however how can one be completely familiar with the complete attributes of the stock suspension when they modify "blindly" and don't quite know what they've improved or worsened. It's one thing to say they like the feel and another to really know if it's an improvement or not. You'll also learn that you cannot judge many improvements by either the feel of the buttocks alone or untested/improperly tested computer formulations either. Both seat time and appropriate "paper/computer research" time are vital to absolutely know what's being improved, what to improve, and what mistakes not to repeat.

I would say that it's a good idea to consider a quality shocks, but I advise to be highly familiarised with how they work as opposed to buying stuff because it's expensive, popular, or just looks cool. And again, it's better to mod as you go rather than to install all mods at once.

LS1FIRE

iTrader: (1)

Wow Thank you for your time and help Now i know what you mean by overkill.

As far as getting some track times i dont think I can because the race park is closing this month and only drags strip will remain open to the end of this month and everthing is done. I do drive aggersive and take the conering limits of my car to the extreme. But now with the H/C the stock suspension does not feel too well.

The reasons why i wanted to go with the LG coil over kit was adjustbility of height because i wanted around a inch drop. I read around that the koni setup on the stock springs wont lower the car too much and improve performance a bit. But i hear that higher spring rates are ideal for better handling . I was thinking the stock springs wont be the most optimal?Another thing i was thinking the install will be a little easier.I dont know what proper spring rate/strut setup to run for optimal perormance. The LG kit seems to be tuned with strut and spring in one I like the idea of having a tuned unit. Overkill it probaly is ,the car will be ran on the street/highway and will be going threw extreme cornering situations and high speed handling often and it sounds like this kit needs to be maintained very often.. It seems like its more for a compettion type car and is specificly designed for the road course they probaly might not be for me. As of tires i am running 17x9.5s 275/40/17s Falken Ziex and 17x11s with junk sumitomoHtrz 315/35/17s. I planning on changing the tires soon to BFG KDs all around our somthing better. I also plan on getting some sway bars. I wonder what setup is out there waiting for me that wont be over kill and be the most Optimal for me. I wish there were more coilover supension units out there one more suitalbe for optimal handliing/street durablility and all around perormance. There are so many coilover units for the import type cars.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for understanding and digesting it clearly, you're handling this thread really well.

Now that I've seen what you've got and will get for tyres and wheels, you're so far on the right track. I would like to mention that as far as getting "track" time, you don't necessarily have to go to a road course, you could find a way to get in touch with an experienced autocross instructor who can pull you through the ropes and get you familiar with how your car operates through some serious twisties on it's stock suspension. This would be done in a larger closed off "parking lot" with cones, or somewhere where they have an autocross track. As much as the stock suspension configuration sux, it does serve as an "undesirable default" so you know where the car does and doesn't need improvement. Once you know that, then it makes modding much more easier to learn.

As far as higher spring rates, you could go pretty high in the front, but definitely not too much in the rear. The 4th Gen f-body's solid rear axle not only doesn't have the ability to individually ariticulate camber on each side, but also yields a lot of unsprung weight. The highest rates for street duty would be those similar to the G2 super springs OE replacements, and those are already quite high.

You've already done the right thing by also asking the same question over at frrax. If you notice, sgarnett is leading you in the effective right direction for a sort of "starters" kit that you can use along with the necessary future mods. Koni SA's are more than adequate for the duties that you have proposed with the vehicle. The sway bars may or may not be to your liking, so I say regardless if you buy all at once, install one part at a time, just to get familiar with their response. I will say that either way for handling, the stock shocks at least gotta go.

sgarnett also mentions talking to Sam Strano, and he's got a good point. Sam's excellent for discussing what would taylor for an individual's needs AFA handling is concerned. While he can chime in over at the boards, it's usually best to phone him up, and if he's not readily available, he'll usually make great effort to get in touch.

EDIT: Also to note for the availablility of coil-overs for the imports, most of those kits are indeed overkill for whom they're targeting. I actually have friends that AX and drift with their S13's and S14's and they note that with the exception of a few coil-over kits out there, many of them are junk or overpriced for what they promise, even some of the "factory racing upgraded" ones. A good friend of mine in San Diego, CA went through several sets of the "bling brands" and the "racing name brands" and really didn't find but one setup to be optimal, mainly because it works and it's really just Koni's with a Ground Control kit. Maybe not elegant at the fact that the system isn't "sold as one", that it isn't fabricated of exotic materials, or is on a threaded sleeve retrofit and not a shock body, but then again, who's looking at what when the car is on the ground? Not to mention when I vehicle is in its "high performance mode" who can really notice the wheels and the brake kits installed. Pretty much why sponsorship stickers are in place.