rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!!
08-23-2002, 11:50 PM
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rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! hi all,
i lowered my ss with sportlines, mac lcas and bmr relocation brackets. the wheel is almost touching the front of the quarter panel. I thought since i bought these damned relocation brackets my **** was gonna come out nice...anybody got any idea on how i should fix this? i dont know i trust this adjustable control arm business maybe i need better brackets? let me know
TIA
Jeremy
i lowered my ss with sportlines, mac lcas and bmr relocation brackets. the wheel is almost touching the front of the quarter panel. I thought since i bought these damned relocation brackets my **** was gonna come out nice...anybody got any idea on how i should fix this? i dont know i trust this adjustable control arm business maybe i need better brackets? let me know
TIA
Jeremy
08-24-2002, 02:00 AM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! Jeremy, I'm not sure about a few things you've said, never heard of Sportlines (I'm guessing lowering springs), what are Mac lcas (adjustable lower control arms or LCA's?)?
Without knowing the answers to the above I'll just take a few guesses, if the lower control arms are adjustable it could be that there not adjusted properly, if the reloction bracket is the weld on type is it welded in the proper location or did they weld it to far forward. A adjustable panhard rod would allow you to make a side to side adjustment but you're saying the front of the tire is almost touching the guarter pannel, that sounds more like it's the lower control arm (or arms) or the reloction brackets not being installed properly....a adjustable panhard rod might take care of the problem but it's hard for me to say without seeing a picture of it. Good luck.
Al
<small>[ August 24, 2002, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: DARK AGE 53 ]</small>
Without knowing the answers to the above I'll just take a few guesses, if the lower control arms are adjustable it could be that there not adjusted properly, if the reloction bracket is the weld on type is it welded in the proper location or did they weld it to far forward. A adjustable panhard rod would allow you to make a side to side adjustment but you're saying the front of the tire is almost touching the guarter pannel, that sounds more like it's the lower control arm (or arms) or the reloction brackets not being installed properly....a adjustable panhard rod might take care of the problem but it's hard for me to say without seeing a picture of it. Good luck.
Al
<small>[ August 24, 2002, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: DARK AGE 53 ]</small>
08-24-2002, 11:45 AM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! Once you lower the rear, you need an adjustable panhard rod. The relocation brackets re-align your rear end pinion, but both parts are needed.
Just reread your post: You might have one of the control arms in the wrong hole. There are 2 holes in the relocation brackets(top/bottom), you might have one of the control arms in the incorrect hole and the other one correct.
<small>[ August 24, 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: YOOFORMULA ]</small>
Just reread your post: You might have one of the control arms in the wrong hole. There are 2 holes in the relocation brackets(top/bottom), you might have one of the control arms in the incorrect hole and the other one correct.
<small>[ August 24, 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: YOOFORMULA ]</small>
08-24-2002, 08:35 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! Guys, the lcas are stock replacements non adjustable, the brackets are installed as the website shows and the lcas are both in the same hole. the springs are eibachs btw.....
08-27-2002, 02:15 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ISERCASTiK:
<strong>Guys, the lcas are stock replacements non adjustable, the brackets are installed as the website shows...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you get proper instructions, or just what we see on the web page? Just for fun I read the BMR install page for the brackets.... it's kinda surreal how they spend time documenting their stuff but get the facts wrong, like how the brackets can affect pinion angle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> or their descriptions of how their other suspension parts work. Whatever.
To fix this properly, you have two choices:
1) Cut the brackets off (messy), and install them (or new ones) so the holes are alighed vertically (and to each other) under the factory mounting hole.
2) If the offset is small, and the LCAs won't interfere with the back of the bracket, drill new holes in the brackets where they need to be in order to properly locate the axle/tires in the openings.
DaveH
<strong>Guys, the lcas are stock replacements non adjustable, the brackets are installed as the website shows...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you get proper instructions, or just what we see on the web page? Just for fun I read the BMR install page for the brackets.... it's kinda surreal how they spend time documenting their stuff but get the facts wrong, like how the brackets can affect pinion angle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> or their descriptions of how their other suspension parts work. Whatever.
To fix this properly, you have two choices:
1) Cut the brackets off (messy), and install them (or new ones) so the holes are alighed vertically (and to each other) under the factory mounting hole.
2) If the offset is small, and the LCAs won't interfere with the back of the bracket, drill new holes in the brackets where they need to be in order to properly locate the axle/tires in the openings.
DaveH
08-27-2002, 06:54 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! The included instructions were super vague Dave, the holes are forward of the stock ones.. what brand do u recommend?
Jeremy
Jeremy
08-27-2002, 09:22 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! At this point you would probably be ahead to get adjustable LCA's and sell the ones you have now. That should give you enough adjustment to center the wheels in the wells again....
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08-28-2002, 03:23 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ISERCASTiK:
<strong>The included instructions were super vague Dave, the holes are forward of the stock ones.. what brand do u recommend?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How much do you need to move the axle forward? Redrilling the holes is a quick fix.
If you are going to replace them, you need to find someone talented with a torch to cut the old ones off - this will be tricky, to do it with minimal damage to the OEM brackets underneath.
Don't just buy adjustable LCAs - they may not have enough adjustment to fix your problem; you'd also need to go to rod ends (more money) as the binding problem on the poly/poly A-LCA will cause to adjustment feature to loosen up regularly.
I would hold BMR responsible for this, as it is up to them to make it clear in the instructions that failure to align the brackets to each other and vertically will result in (potentially) expensive repairs to your axle. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to admit anything.
As for replacements, the Global West brackets are sturdy and fit well, and don't require washers to make the LCAs fit properly.
Gook luck with this.
DaveH
<strong>The included instructions were super vague Dave, the holes are forward of the stock ones.. what brand do u recommend?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How much do you need to move the axle forward? Redrilling the holes is a quick fix.
If you are going to replace them, you need to find someone talented with a torch to cut the old ones off - this will be tricky, to do it with minimal damage to the OEM brackets underneath.
Don't just buy adjustable LCAs - they may not have enough adjustment to fix your problem; you'd also need to go to rod ends (more money) as the binding problem on the poly/poly A-LCA will cause to adjustment feature to loosen up regularly.
I would hold BMR responsible for this, as it is up to them to make it clear in the instructions that failure to align the brackets to each other and vertically will result in (potentially) expensive repairs to your axle. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to admit anything.
As for replacements, the Global West brackets are sturdy and fit well, and don't require washers to make the LCAs fit properly.
Gook luck with this.
DaveH
08-28-2002, 09:53 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! My brackets arent even weld ons so theres no cutting involved. the axle needs to go back about an inch to be centered in the well....i dont know if i want to try to modify these brackets or sell them to someone that likes junk and buy something good.
Jeremy
Jeremy
08-29-2002, 11:57 AM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! "Make sure that the shock bolt bracket(offset leg on relocation bracket) is sandwiched between the rear end shock bracket and the shock. "
You did this correctly?
I buy junk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Email me your price.
You did this correctly?
I buy junk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Email me your price.
09-08-2002, 09:17 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! ok. this sounds similar to a problem i've noticed on my own '01. i went with global west LCA's (bearings on both ends--noisy ride) and their non-adjustable panhard. i noticed it appears that the axle has shifted noticably to the right and the passenger wheel now appears to be closer to the inner qtr panel. has anyone ever seen this? how do you correct this? when i think about an adjustable panhard, i cant see how it will shift the axle right or left. i know the LCA allows for axle pivot but i didnt think i would thrown off the wheels like they are right now. thanks for any input! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
09-09-2002, 08:54 AM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! I installed my weld-on relocatin brackets with the LCA's in place and weight on the rear axle and mine came out just fine.
09-09-2002, 03:25 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! I purchased BMR bolt-on relocation brackets and put them on Saturday, they were/are perfect. Must me something else in the new suspension unless you had them on wrong, never heard back about that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
09-10-2002, 12:27 AM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! Just my two cents, I put on a set of Global West brackets, and I just loved the quality. Unfortunately, the welder wasn't too smart and welded one of the brackets more back then the other, so now i'm stuck with using adjustable lca's.
So the key thing is here: measure, measure, measure and re-measure everything.
Also, you may have to grind away at the axle housing or the brackets themselves to make them vertical on each side.
Steve
So the key thing is here: measure, measure, measure and re-measure everything.
Also, you may have to grind away at the axle housing or the brackets themselves to make them vertical on each side.
Steve
09-10-2002, 06:59 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! first off ISERCASTiK your relocation brackets are most likley out of position and you probably need adjustable lower control arms and panhard bar with the sportlines because they drop the car so much.
next off 1BLKSS had the same problem as me when i lowered my car(the tire on the drivers side sticks out the qtr panel)to fix this you HAVE to get a adjustable panhard bar this is the only way to fix this.
also when i put my bolt in relo brackets in with my adjustable lower control arms both of my rear wheels moved about an inch to the rear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
next off 1BLKSS had the same problem as me when i lowered my car(the tire on the drivers side sticks out the qtr panel)to fix this you HAVE to get a adjustable panhard bar this is the only way to fix this.
also when i put my bolt in relo brackets in with my adjustable lower control arms both of my rear wheels moved about an inch to the rear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
09-14-2002, 06:38 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! I just put in BMR bolt-ins and my driver side tire is further back than the passenger side one (in the wheel well). This seems very odd to me???? They are in the same holes and were both installed at the same time. I did put them in the bottom holes since I'll be putting lowering springs on next week, but the wheels are centered side-to-side in the well, just seems like the axle is crooked????
Guess I gotta jack it up and rack my brains tomorrow.
-Dave
Guess I gotta jack it up and rack my brains tomorrow.
-Dave
09-14-2002, 10:26 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! I have BMR Adjustable Chromoly LCA's and PHR and used their Bolt-on LCA Relocation Brackets and had no problems whatsoever. The instructions were right on and the descriptions and explanations on their website are very insightful and explain everything regarding the rear suspension in great depth as to get the most out of their parts and benefit you car the most. However, you do have to take the time and thought to understand this information.
The adjustable PHR allows for adjustment of the rear end from side to side which is a must when using lowering springs and the adjustable LCA's allow you to adjust the rear end fore and aft in the wheelwell. However, it is not necessarily to exactly center the rearend in the wheelwell although this is part of their purpose - they are also used to adjust your pinion angle. -1 degree is optimal for a street car as I understand it. The reason for this is that the pinion is being twisted slightly upwards at launch and for the least amount of driveline power loss - you want the pinion angle to be 0 at launch.
Also, regarding the LCA's - you can get poly/poly bushings, rubber/poly bushings or rod ends. But rod ends will be very, very noisy for a daily driver and even poly/poly can be very bothersome -I chose the rubber/poly combo and am very pleased.
A couple other notes - the Chromoly versions are the strongest and when using the adjustable versions - be sure to use some Thread Locker on the nuts that lock in the adjustment and you will be all set. Good luck!
The adjustable PHR allows for adjustment of the rear end from side to side which is a must when using lowering springs and the adjustable LCA's allow you to adjust the rear end fore and aft in the wheelwell. However, it is not necessarily to exactly center the rearend in the wheelwell although this is part of their purpose - they are also used to adjust your pinion angle. -1 degree is optimal for a street car as I understand it. The reason for this is that the pinion is being twisted slightly upwards at launch and for the least amount of driveline power loss - you want the pinion angle to be 0 at launch.
Also, regarding the LCA's - you can get poly/poly bushings, rubber/poly bushings or rod ends. But rod ends will be very, very noisy for a daily driver and even poly/poly can be very bothersome -I chose the rubber/poly combo and am very pleased.
A couple other notes - the Chromoly versions are the strongest and when using the adjustable versions - be sure to use some Thread Locker on the nuts that lock in the adjustment and you will be all set. Good luck!
09-16-2002, 03:20 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>... The instructions were right on and the descriptions and explanations on their website are very insightful and explain everything regarding the rear suspension in great depth as to get the most out of their parts and benefit you car the most. However, you do have to take the time and thought to understand this information.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They do go into detail. They have the details wrong, but they do write everything up.
I saw the intructions for the LCA brackets. They were pretty bad - relying more on luck (you mentioned that) to get them straight. It's simple: the holes in the brackets must be perpendicular (look it up) to the ground. If not, then your axle will be off centre; If they are not parallel to each other, the axle will be turned in relation to the chassis. They mention that the brackets could affect the pinion angle? How's that?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>The adjustable PHR allows for adjustment of the rear end from side to side which is a must when using lowering springs</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wouldn't say 'must'. I run 18x10.5" wheels and can lower the car onto the bumpstops with the axle centred and no rubbing issues - without jounce spacers or wheelwell mods. It depends on car and tires/wheels. If you centre the axle with the car 3" off the stops, then you could be *creating* problems.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>...the adjustable LCA's allow you to adjust the rear end fore and aft in the wheelwell. However, it is not necessarily to exactly center the rearend in the wheelwell although this is part of their purpose - they are also used to adjust your pinion angle. -1 degree is optimal for a street car as I understand it. The reason for this is that the pinion is being twisted slightly upwards at launch and for the least amount of driveline power loss - you want the pinion angle to be 0 at launch.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">again with the ALCAs and pinion angle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
That's the job of the torque arm BTW. However, BMR's FAQ has the torque arm doing the work of the PHR. Yikes. I can see how you could get confused.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>Also, regarding the LCA's - you can get poly/poly bushings, rubber/poly bushings or rod ends. But rod ends will be very, very noisy for a daily driver and even poly/poly can be very bothersome -I chose the rubber/poly combo and am very pleased.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The problems with poly/poly and poly/rubber are well known, and posted elswhere.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>A couple other notes - the Chromoly versions are the strongest and when using the adjustable versions - be sure to use some Thread Locker on the nuts that lock in the adjustment and you will be all set. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You choose chromoly because it is lighter; the material is stronger so it allows for thinner walled tubing of comparable strength.
If you have poly/poly ALCAs, you will have problems keeping the jam nuts tight. LCAs must pivot on their mounts; the poly doesn't give so the jam nut has to. That's been discussed at length.
DaveH
'00 28 Conv M6
http://member.newsguy.com/~acarnut/
<strong>... The instructions were right on and the descriptions and explanations on their website are very insightful and explain everything regarding the rear suspension in great depth as to get the most out of their parts and benefit you car the most. However, you do have to take the time and thought to understand this information.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They do go into detail. They have the details wrong, but they do write everything up.
I saw the intructions for the LCA brackets. They were pretty bad - relying more on luck (you mentioned that) to get them straight. It's simple: the holes in the brackets must be perpendicular (look it up) to the ground. If not, then your axle will be off centre; If they are not parallel to each other, the axle will be turned in relation to the chassis. They mention that the brackets could affect the pinion angle? How's that?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>The adjustable PHR allows for adjustment of the rear end from side to side which is a must when using lowering springs</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wouldn't say 'must'. I run 18x10.5" wheels and can lower the car onto the bumpstops with the axle centred and no rubbing issues - without jounce spacers or wheelwell mods. It depends on car and tires/wheels. If you centre the axle with the car 3" off the stops, then you could be *creating* problems.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>...the adjustable LCA's allow you to adjust the rear end fore and aft in the wheelwell. However, it is not necessarily to exactly center the rearend in the wheelwell although this is part of their purpose - they are also used to adjust your pinion angle. -1 degree is optimal for a street car as I understand it. The reason for this is that the pinion is being twisted slightly upwards at launch and for the least amount of driveline power loss - you want the pinion angle to be 0 at launch.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">again with the ALCAs and pinion angle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
That's the job of the torque arm BTW. However, BMR's FAQ has the torque arm doing the work of the PHR. Yikes. I can see how you could get confused.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>Also, regarding the LCA's - you can get poly/poly bushings, rubber/poly bushings or rod ends. But rod ends will be very, very noisy for a daily driver and even poly/poly can be very bothersome -I chose the rubber/poly combo and am very pleased.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The problems with poly/poly and poly/rubber are well known, and posted elswhere.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>A couple other notes - the Chromoly versions are the strongest and when using the adjustable versions - be sure to use some Thread Locker on the nuts that lock in the adjustment and you will be all set. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You choose chromoly because it is lighter; the material is stronger so it allows for thinner walled tubing of comparable strength.
If you have poly/poly ALCAs, you will have problems keeping the jam nuts tight. LCAs must pivot on their mounts; the poly doesn't give so the jam nut has to. That's been discussed at length.
DaveH
'00 28 Conv M6
http://member.newsguy.com/~acarnut/
09-16-2002, 06:16 PM
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Re: rear axle off center in wheel housing after reloc bracket install!!!!! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by acarnut:
It's simple: the holes in the brackets must be perpendicular (look it up) to the ground. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually with their bolt-ins this is not possible. The bottom hole is about 1cm in front of the middle hole, since you're angling it down more the length gets shorter and I'm assuming this is why the hole is moved forward a bit. I'm still wrestling with mine, driver side tire is about 1cm further back than passenger side, was 2 or 3 so I'm getting close. I think the bracket was bent in shipment.
-Dave
It's simple: the holes in the brackets must be perpendicular (look it up) to the ground. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually with their bolt-ins this is not possible. The bottom hole is about 1cm in front of the middle hole, since you're angling it down more the length gets shorter and I'm assuming this is why the hole is moved forward a bit. I'm still wrestling with mine, driver side tire is about 1cm further back than passenger side, was 2 or 3 so I'm getting close. I think the bracket was bent in shipment.
-Dave