Biochem

At the end of a turn, I started to accelerate... then the rear tried to slide out from under me. I kept it on the road, but it has me concerned. Granted, it was raining, but I didn't get on it hardly and I've never really had confidence in the rear suspension on exit ramps.

Basically, it is the stock 02 tires with LCA/panhard. I've also got a STB. LCA brackets are on order, but that all should only help straight line takeoffs... not turns, right? How about lowering springs? Being these tires are only 7 months old, I'm not ready to get new ones just yet...

AZ28driver

Basically any rear wheel drive vehicle will do that in the rain.

unit213

300+ rwhp with an M6 in the rain and you're going to have major traction issues.

Biochem

Rain aside, I've never been convinced that this rear suspension is 100% safe on some of NC's finest exit ramps...

GREEN GOBLIN

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I don't think you need any suspension parts, you need a bigger ball sack.

Find a local autocross being run, spend $20 to enter and give it hell.

You will find out real quick if the car is the problem ....

acarnut

The limited slip differential will make the rear go out easier in the rain. That's why you need ASR.

You can also help keep the rear end planted by watching your tire pressures (not too high in relation to the fronts), choosing your rear shock spring/shock/sway bar rates carefully, and avoiding poly bushings in the control arms.

LCA brackets help straight line traction.

DaveH

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

****, people are owrried about this? I take my car out in the rain for fun. Slam second everytime, whip around corners, donuts. It's fun. Maybe even take a few exits and whip it out around the exit. Whoever said that 300+hp in a RWD m6 car is obvioously right, there are going to be traction problems. F-bodys have NEVER been any good in rain/snow or any other type of dangerous conditions you can think of. I still have fun though. Just learn to know the limits and make sure you can keep that sucker under control, or else that rearend will come around and meet the front. Have fun <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

prockbp

lemme guess...

you have Poly/poly control arms? that is the biggest problem with your rear suspension... it's acutally a huge problem

poly/poly control arms really aren't even good for drag racing... drag racing just happens to be the only application that they fit without being excessively dangerous

so that's one mechanical problem.. the only other possibility is driver error

wrencher

iTrader: (2)

Tires? F1's rain & your bitchin! F1's blow wet or dry!!!

bigshoe

iTrader: (2)

I agree with prockbp, if you have poly/poly lca's or even with a rubber bushing, if they are tubular or boxed, and DO NOT have heim joints-- thats your biggest problem- period.

if you do, do yourself a favor and do this, it wont take that much of your time.

1. take your car to a parking lot, try different variations of cutting the wheel and accellerating hard in 1st gear. Note when you lose traction

2. Go home and put the stock lca's back on, then go back to that parking lot, and try it again....ok, keep trying till you start losing control.... ok, try harder, you can make it loose it.....

the reason i say this is because, i had the bmr tubulars with the poly/poly bushings (bought when i started autocrossing, did not know the limits of the car then), then after reading about all the hype about going back to the stock lca's or using lca's with a heim joint on at least one end, I bought a set and tried it (but also installed lca relocation brackets, used the middle hole on a non-lowered car)--HOLY **** what a difference!!

My problem was i didnt test em out in a parking lot, i was going around stop signs at WOT in 1st gear-- I couldnt beleive that they were ACTUALLY STICKING TO THE GROUND! I tried harder and harder and harder, and I finally couldnt cure my curiosity, and had to floor it around a turn, let off the gas, and floor it again, completely upsetting the chassis- and it stuck the first time (yes the tires were squeling, but the rear didnt step out on me).... i couldnt believe it- so i tried it again... hit some loose gravel, and my front tire jumped the nearby curb in no time- costed me a 33$ alignement, no other damamge, but I still wish i would have found a parking lot.

This may sound like a miracle story? To me it seems like it- well, actually seems like the aftermarket lca's are garbage if you plan on turning your car and keeping some traction (yes i had lca brackets to help me, but most of it probably came from the lca's).

Heim joints wear out quick they say- but to me its very worth it, I autocross, and I've found that lca's that dont twist are like putting tirewet on your tires-- its a no no for control.

if you have lca's that dont twist, but the stock ones back on and see what i'm talking about (yes the stock ones twist).

post back and tell us what ever happened

Dom

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by camaro_ls1:
<strong>300+ rwhp with an M6 in the rain and you're going to have major traction issues.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or a 180ish rwhp V6 with A4 that has 1LE sway bars/shocks/springs, rod LCAs, and 4.10s. My car is neutral with no throttle, but when I touch it in the slightest bit the rear comes out very easily. And that's in the dry. Tons of power is not necessairly needed for oversteer. And my suspension is setup heavily for autox. If I had the stock pos suspension I'd be in even more trouble. I have 0 sway and 0 nose dive under even high speeds.

It's just a nature of our cars to oversteer upon throttle application. I learned not to touch it during cornering.

Louis

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mitchntx:
<strong>I think you need a bigger ball sack.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

In all seriousness, Its fun. Dont be stupid, Use your head, and have fun <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

acarnut

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dom:
Or a 180ish rwhp V6 with A4 that has 1LE sway bars/shocks/springs, rod LCAs, and 4.10s. My car is neutral with no throttle, but when I touch it in the slightest bit the rear comes out very easily. And that's in the dry. Tons of power is not necessairly needed for oversteer. And my suspension is setup heavily for autox. If I had the stock pos suspension I'd be in even more trouble. I have 0 sway and 0 nose dive under even high speeds.

It's just a nature of our cars to oversteer upon throttle application. I learned not to touch it during cornering.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like you need more tuning. If you leave some push in your suspension, you can put the power down in and coming out of the corners. That's how these cars leave the factory - even more so with the SS package, with the larger front bar than the Zed. Push makes the car easier to drive, safer for the average driver. Neutral is good, but there is No Free Lunch.

Zero dive and body roll is more of a personal preference than the best handling setup. I set up a car (not my current car) like this and yes it was cool to get the G's in the corners without breaking a sweat but it scittered on anything but smooth pavement and was only fast in the wet cuz it was AWD.

It took a lot of planning, but I'm really happy with the suspension balance on my car. Got rid of most of the push, but the rear still sticks in the corners.

DaveH

Louis

iTrader: (7)

I think that we are missing the point here. It is in the rain. The optimal suspension setup in the rain is everything as soft as you can get it. disconnect swaybars, adj. shocks, springs, everything.

That is only for race cars. You cant really tell how well a car will handle in the dry judging by how it does in the wet.

akaceril

just my $.02 but anyone ever have the suprise of hittine the painted lines on the road during a slide...is it me or does the paint turn to grease in the rain. maybe you hit the paint???

Racehead

If you still have the stock rear shocks then this could easily cause this problem. The rears are down right dangerous and should be outlawed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> They have way too much compression dampening and not enough rebound ( Think pick up truck ) This will cause the rear to stutter and skitter over the tiniest road imperfections and really hurts wet traction, the front shocks aren't nearly as bad. Get some Bilstein HD's.

BTW like some others have already said, if you have non-stock LCA's with poly or rubber bushings then lose this combo immediately. Get heim joint ends and improve your traction in corners 100%

badbird88

I don't care what combo you have it boils down to rain and the tire tread you have.

I turned my 88 TA sideways in the road 2 times at 50mph <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> ! Both times I was in 5th gear and had eased over into the water ruts and barely and I mean barely touched the gas and next thing I know I was staring at the trees with the wheel turned as hard as I could pointing back in the direction I hoped I was going to go when they caught...luckily they did and I straightened back up. Oh, the second time was on the way back home that same night and dummy me <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> thought I would try and learn how to run in the ruts like I used to with my one legger rear before I put the Auburn posi in. Man the sight of those trees teaches you real quick to never hit the gas if you are in a water rut and have a posi-rear.

Another time I was running down the interstate at 65-70 and my tires were in need of changing but kept putting it off b/c it hadn't rained in forever, well I didn't turn sideways but my rear-end was ever so slighlty fish tailing back and forth...just enough for me to back down to around 50-55 b/c of how bad it was feeling.

By the way a few months later a GT was wanting to race me in that same area but I let him pass and drove normal but when he pulled back in front he hit the water ruts and fishtailed about 3 times and finally straightend up only he was going about 70! Till this day I still don't know how he kept it on the road.

I do have the stock LCA's but they have the poly bushings in them. I can remember one time going into a wet parking lot and trying to do a 360 only to not have the car ever brake loose...suprised the crap out of me. All the times i would slide the car sideways in the rain and now it wouldn't brake loose. Kind of interesting what you others said about the LCA's.

Rule of thumb, the faster you go the quicker you will turn around in the road before you can blink and I do mean faster than you can blink. At 50nph I didn't know what happened other than I was staring at trees...don't take the chance..trust me. KEEP YOUR FOOT OUT OF IT AND DRIVE NORMAL!! If it has never happened to you then don't think that you know how to drive in the rain b/c when it does it is quick.

My TCS is a nice addition on my 02 and it has been tested and prooved very worthy.

badbird88

oh....watch those canopy roads also....they are slick as snot and even slicker than those painted lines akaceril was talking about. I can spin in 4th just idling down a canopy road here in my area.

My 02 is easier than my 88 due to not having that immediate low end torque and a lot safer. My 88 was/is not a car you give to someone and let them joy ride in it who didn't know what they were doing. No ABS (my ABS was tap the brake as fast as possible and go from a 0 to a 10 on the pucker factor scale all in about a fast as you could holler oh crap! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> ), lots of low end torque and no TCS taught me a lot. Thank God I never had a wreck during all that learning! Knock on wood!

Dom

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by acarnut:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dom:
Or a 180ish rwhp V6 with A4 that has 1LE sway bars/shocks/springs, rod LCAs, and 4.10s. My car is neutral with no throttle, but when I touch it in the slightest bit the rear comes out very easily. And that's in the dry. Tons of power is not necessairly needed for oversteer. And my suspension is setup heavily for autox. If I had the stock pos suspension I'd be in even more trouble. I have 0 sway and 0 nose dive under even high speeds.

It's just a nature of our cars to oversteer upon throttle application. I learned not to touch it during cornering.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like you need more tuning. If you leave some push in your suspension, you can put the power down in and coming out of the corners. That's how these cars leave the factory - even more so with the SS package, with the larger front bar than the Zed. Push makes the car easier to drive, safer for the average driver. Neutral is good, but there is No Free Lunch.

Zero dive and body roll is more of a personal preference than the best handling setup. I set up a car (not my current car) like this and yes it was cool to get the G's in the corners without breaking a sweat but it scittered on anything but smooth pavement and was only fast in the wet cuz it was AWD.

It took a lot of planning, but I'm really happy with the suspension balance on my car. Got rid of most of the push, but the rear still sticks in the corners.

DaveH[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I might replace the rear 19mm with 17mm or front 32mm with 35mm. I haven't decided yet. i wouldn't mind a little push for the street driving. It's very neutral now, but I touch the throttle and there goes the rear.