HPP

Some good info here, particularly the links.

The white papers link, contained a link to an article on brake bias. It stressed the importance of bias on maximal stopping ability, and the need for a bias adjuster for changes to the vehicle or braking system.

One part of the article that really caught my attention was where they said that OEMs like to set biases toward the front in all conditions achievable by the tires the car shipped with, so that it provides stability under braking. Seems to be similar to how they like to set up a car for understeer at the limit.

If that is so, it got me to thinking - perhaps some OEMs do it more so than others? And perhaps for some models more than others?

For a stock WS6 with koni's and the lower perch/heater hose mod on stock tires and rims, would it be possible to dial the bias back a bit, even it out, and attain better maximal braking?

(the 2006 M3 is about 3430lbs, with around a 51/49 weight distribution and stops from 60 in about 114 feet, compared to the stock 02 WS6 distance fo 126 feet. The WS6 has a LOT more tire for only a little more weight. I'm getting the impression that these cars were not set up for the performance they could have, even with stock components, from the factory, which leads me to believe that meeting or exceeding the M3's #s (at least here) should be quite doable)

Also, those with "performance alignments" and their camber maxxed out, how did that affect your braking bias? (seems it would have too, pulling the sides of the front tires off the road)

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I'm running Ferodo DS2500's on my car right now (front brakes only, but they are Wilwoods). I don't think Ferodo makes them for the stock calipers for F-bodies (front or rear). However, they have been a good street pad for me so far. They are quiet, stop well and are quite easy on rotors (compared to the "brake lathe" pads I've been running, mostly carbotech Panther XP1108's or Hawk HP+ and other track worthy compounds). They are a good pad for my uses and are more streetable than most of the pads I run (I run race pads, these are not race pads, but they are still better than stock by a considerable amount).

People don't believe us when we tell them that slotted rotors are the "brake pad cheese grater". Slotted rotors make lots of brake dust by just grinding the pad material away. I've run slotted rotors (they came with a brake kit I bought) and in 10 autocross passes (on a 50 second course), we could grind almost 1/4" of pad material off of each pad. They were just chewing through my pads. I finally wore those rotors out and swapped on a set of "blanks" and my pad life was much better. All of that pad wear has to go "somewhere" and most of it lands on your wheels as dust. Don't blame the pads completely for what you experienced. And, once you run the Hawks hard, I bet it will be a similar result.

The LS1 cars are already pretty heavily rear biased. More rear bias (unless you lock up the wheels) tends to increase braking performance (by making both wheels do maximum work). The problem with our stock brakes is mostly the pad compound. Meaning, it will be far better with upgraded pads.

My 2002 Z28 (lowered on H&R springs with Koni DA's) stopped from 60 in 110 feet (tested with a Bel FX2 meter) on a chip and tar road (though a very, very clean/good chip and tar road, more like an asphalt surface, but not quite) with Wilwood 6 pistons up front (with Hawk HP+ pads) and stock rear pads/rotors/calipers. That was with -1.3 degrees of camber and running Fuzion ZRi 275/40-17's on stock 10 spoke wheels. On 315/35-17 Hoosiers, it will stop from 70-75 in about the same distance (using a more aggressive pad, Carbotech XP8's on the front and Panther Plus on the rear). That was at an autocross, stopping for the timers.

However, I ran race pads (or upgraded pads) on my stock brakes and it would stop considerably better than stock (I never got to test the distance for an official measurement though). Our cars have enough tire under them to do the trick, they just need more "bite" in the brake department. Pads can do much of that.

Shooter_Jay

So has anybody used ceramic pads? Reviews?

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

My Carbotech race pads (key words "Race Pads") were ceremic based and they worked great, made tons of noise and piles of dust. There is a difference between parts store ceremic and race ceremic, but I wanted to demonstrate that ceremic isn't guarenteed to be low dust. They come in all sizes.

Shooter_Jay

Thanks. Did you have to bed-in the ceramic race pads?