500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW???????????????????
11-25-2002, 09:18 PM
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500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? I haven't dynoed yet, tomorrow is the big day. It should be in the high 400's easy. Just consider 500.
I know this subject has been beat to death, but I never seem to see a real good answer.
I may have my rims widened like this: http://www.ws6.com/wheels.htm
If I do, I will put 315/35/17 Nitto Drag Radials on.
OR
Keep my rims stock and put on 275/40/17 Nitto Drags.
Of these 2 choices, and only these 2, which would be better for the STREET traction??????
I expect to pick my car up tomorrow or Wednesday.
Thanks
I know this subject has been beat to death, but I never seem to see a real good answer.
I may have my rims widened like this: http://www.ws6.com/wheels.htm
If I do, I will put 315/35/17 Nitto Drag Radials on.
OR
Keep my rims stock and put on 275/40/17 Nitto Drags.
Of these 2 choices, and only these 2, which would be better for the STREET traction??????
I expect to pick my car up tomorrow or Wednesday.
Thanks
11-26-2002, 05:30 PM
#2
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? 315/35s would be best. They have just as much sidewall as the 275/40s.
Get that suspension set up right. Gotta get that weight transfering and keep the body roll to a minimun. Don't forget the LCA relocators. A soft hitting converter (like a SY3500) would help too.
<small>[ November 26, 2002, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Colonel ]</small>
Get that suspension set up right. Gotta get that weight transfering and keep the body roll to a minimun. Don't forget the LCA relocators. A soft hitting converter (like a SY3500) would help too.
<small>[ November 26, 2002, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Colonel ]</small>
11-26-2002, 10:27 PM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? Well I can honestly tell you that the 315s will help but Im not sure how much as Im currently making 500rwhp as well and I have AFS ZR1 17x11s.
When I just had the blower I was putting down 445 hp and the stock Ws6 rims would spin to a certain degree like I would chirp 3rd gear and the top of 1st the tires would start to spin.
But that was also with really good tires, I had Firestone Firehawks SZ50EP which were the best street tires I have ever had they were 275s.
Now I have Dunlop SP 8000s (315s) and when I first put them on I was still at 445rwhp and first would hold and I would loose a little traction in 2nd and on occasion chirp 3rd, I didnt choose the tires they came with the rims as a package deal and a good one at that, I paid 1600. for polished 17x9.5s in the front with 275s and 17x11s with 315s with the grandsport backspacing so I didnt have to cut or roll my rear fenders.
www.afswheels.com awesome deal brand new. Well now with the power levels Im at now, I cant even use 1st anymore, and half of 2nd, and it will violently chirp 3rd and at night at like 95 mph (3:73s) it will chirp 4th.
Get ready for some stress and youll be looking at AWD platforms with envy as no matter what you do your tires will spin. At the local quarter mile track I have to come off the line in 2nd gear and I usually cut 2.4-2.5 60 ft times.
Good luck, best bet is to get the rims from AFS as even if you widen your rims you may have to roll your fenders. They make the 315s fit. And get the Nittos Im not sure about the 555 R2s but I heard the 555 Rs hook as they have a little sidewall flex.
Thats what Im going with soon as these Dunlops wear out.
When I just had the blower I was putting down 445 hp and the stock Ws6 rims would spin to a certain degree like I would chirp 3rd gear and the top of 1st the tires would start to spin.
But that was also with really good tires, I had Firestone Firehawks SZ50EP which were the best street tires I have ever had they were 275s.
Now I have Dunlop SP 8000s (315s) and when I first put them on I was still at 445rwhp and first would hold and I would loose a little traction in 2nd and on occasion chirp 3rd, I didnt choose the tires they came with the rims as a package deal and a good one at that, I paid 1600. for polished 17x9.5s in the front with 275s and 17x11s with 315s with the grandsport backspacing so I didnt have to cut or roll my rear fenders.
www.afswheels.com awesome deal brand new. Well now with the power levels Im at now, I cant even use 1st anymore, and half of 2nd, and it will violently chirp 3rd and at night at like 95 mph (3:73s) it will chirp 4th.
Get ready for some stress and youll be looking at AWD platforms with envy as no matter what you do your tires will spin. At the local quarter mile track I have to come off the line in 2nd gear and I usually cut 2.4-2.5 60 ft times.
Good luck, best bet is to get the rims from AFS as even if you widen your rims you may have to roll your fenders. They make the 315s fit. And get the Nittos Im not sure about the 555 R2s but I heard the 555 Rs hook as they have a little sidewall flex.
Thats what Im going with soon as these Dunlops wear out.
11-27-2002, 01:03 AM
#4
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? It won't be bad with Nitto Drag radials...especially in a 315. There is NO comparison between normal radial street tires and Nitto Drag radials.
I was running 275 Nitto DRs with over 500 RWHP, a 4200 HARD hitting stall, and 4.10 gears. Just gotta learn to drive it. I cut low 1.5 60 fts like this.
I was running 275 Nitto DRs with over 500 RWHP, a 4200 HARD hitting stall, and 4.10 gears. Just gotta learn to drive it. I cut low 1.5 60 fts like this.
11-27-2002, 04:41 PM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? I'm at over 500rwhp when I spray and you can forget getting a normal radial tire to hook in first or second. With the Nittos however I ride the clutch a bit to get the weight moving to the rear before I lay all the way into the throttle and with the 3.42's it just chirps my 275 Nittos all the way thru first but does not fully break them loose....PS, do not run over 23 psi even on the street! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
11-29-2002, 12:55 AM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? So, does this mean an F1 McLaren or that type of powerful car is a waste, because they have regular 315/35 radials to? I mean, they must not be able to utilize anywhere near there power either.
I get my car on Monday or Tuesday, I'm gonna buy a new set of 275 Nitto 555R's all around on my stock WS6 rims, see what happens. If it won't hook worth a dam, I'll widen the rims and get 315 Nitto 555 R's.
Is there gonna be a night/day difference between the 275 and the 315 Nitto, or just a little bit?
23 PSI, thats it, isn't it a 44 PSI tire like the GY F1's.?
<small>[ November 29, 2002, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: Quickin ]</small>
I get my car on Monday or Tuesday, I'm gonna buy a new set of 275 Nitto 555R's all around on my stock WS6 rims, see what happens. If it won't hook worth a dam, I'll widen the rims and get 315 Nitto 555 R's.
Is there gonna be a night/day difference between the 275 and the 315 Nitto, or just a little bit?
23 PSI, thats it, isn't it a 44 PSI tire like the GY F1's.?
<small>[ November 29, 2002, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: Quickin ]</small>
11-29-2002, 02:21 PM
#7
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? "Is there gonna be a night/day difference between the 275 and the 315 Nitto, or just a little bit?"
Just a bit. Most of your traction is a factor of how hard you push the tires down (suspension) and how sticky they are...not how wide the contact patch is (contrary to popular belief.) You actually make more difference extending the contact patch front to back (as in a taller tire) than by widening it. Widening the contact patch would make more difference than lengthening it with lateral forces (in the curves.)
Just a bit. Most of your traction is a factor of how hard you push the tires down (suspension) and how sticky they are...not how wide the contact patch is (contrary to popular belief.) You actually make more difference extending the contact patch front to back (as in a taller tire) than by widening it. Widening the contact patch would make more difference than lengthening it with lateral forces (in the curves.)
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11-29-2002, 08:36 PM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>"Is there gonna be a night/day difference between the 275 and the 315 Nitto, or just a little bit?"
Just a bit. Most of your traction is a factor of how hard you push the tires down (suspension) and how sticky they are...not how wide the contact patch is (contrary to popular belief.) You actually make more difference extending the contact patch front to back (as in a taller tire) than by widening it. Widening the contact patch would make more difference than lengthening it with lateral forces (in the curves.)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does my suspension look like its the best for the street? Or should I add something else?
<small>[ November 29, 2002, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Quickin ]</small>
<strong>"Is there gonna be a night/day difference between the 275 and the 315 Nitto, or just a little bit?"
Just a bit. Most of your traction is a factor of how hard you push the tires down (suspension) and how sticky they are...not how wide the contact patch is (contrary to popular belief.) You actually make more difference extending the contact patch front to back (as in a taller tire) than by widening it. Widening the contact patch would make more difference than lengthening it with lateral forces (in the curves.)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does my suspension look like its the best for the street? Or should I add something else?
<small>[ November 29, 2002, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Quickin ]</small>
11-29-2002, 10:40 PM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong> You actually make more difference extending the contact patch front to back (as in a taller tire) than by widening it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey Colonel,
Can you (or someone else here) explain this a little more - not sure I'm getting it...
Thanks!
<strong> You actually make more difference extending the contact patch front to back (as in a taller tire) than by widening it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey Colonel,
Can you (or someone else here) explain this a little more - not sure I'm getting it...
Thanks!
11-30-2002, 01:28 AM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? My take on what Colonel is mentioning is that the taller the wall IE the sidewalls of the tires the more they are able to flex and give better traction. At least that's how I read into it.
11-30-2002, 01:46 AM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? I read it as the tire is able to kind of crawl or reach forward as it's turning, grabbing pavement as it moves forward.
11-30-2002, 05:38 PM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? I think what the colonel is saying that a taller tire is bigger in diameter hence, bigger circumference. It's this "taller" tire that gives you a bigger flat spot at the pavement. It's the whole concept behind lowering air pressure at the track for better traction. Very little width is gained by pressure reduction, it's the back to front or front to back "parallel" to the car patch that is increased. Think about a flat tire and you can better visualize the above. Some width is gained but nothing compared to the flat spots length. It's THIS patch that increases with a taller tire. get it??
12-01-2002, 03:33 PM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2002snortbird:
<strong>get it??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep - thanks!
<strong>get it??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep - thanks!
12-01-2002, 05:24 PM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2002snortbird:
<strong>I think what the colonel is saying that a taller tire is bigger in diameter hence, bigger circumference. It's this "taller" tire that gives you a bigger flat spot at the pavement. It's the whole concept behind lowering air pressure at the track for better traction. Very little width is gained by pressure reduction, it's the back to front or front to back "parallel" to the car patch that is increased. Think about a flat tire and you can better visualize the above. Some width is gained but nothing compared to the flat spots length. It's THIS patch that increases with a taller tire. get it??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You got it. I was saying that for straightline traction making the contact patch longer (as in front to back) helps alot but making it wider doesn't help as much as one might think. Taller tires hook better than shorter tires all else being equal. Wider tires hook better than narrower ones but the difference is much less than is the case with tall v/s short.
<strong>I think what the colonel is saying that a taller tire is bigger in diameter hence, bigger circumference. It's this "taller" tire that gives you a bigger flat spot at the pavement. It's the whole concept behind lowering air pressure at the track for better traction. Very little width is gained by pressure reduction, it's the back to front or front to back "parallel" to the car patch that is increased. Think about a flat tire and you can better visualize the above. Some width is gained but nothing compared to the flat spots length. It's THIS patch that increases with a taller tire. get it??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You got it. I was saying that for straightline traction making the contact patch longer (as in front to back) helps alot but making it wider doesn't help as much as one might think. Taller tires hook better than shorter tires all else being equal. Wider tires hook better than narrower ones but the difference is much less than is the case with tall v/s short.
12-03-2002, 04:06 PM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? So does this mean that the Nitto DR 305/45/18s will hook better than the 315/35/17s since they are taller? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
12-04-2002, 04:05 PM
#19
Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? I am only getting 420RWHP and I blister my 315's all the way to the big end of 3rd gear. But then again yokohamas arent the best traction tire out there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
12-05-2002, 01:42 AM
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Re: 500 RWHP, traction on the street, HOW??????????????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by InvisibleSun:
<strong>So does this mean that the Nitto DR 305/45/18s will hook better than the 315/35/17s since they are taller? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, because there's less sidewall on the 18" tire. Taller is better but if you're decreasing the sidewall at the same time, it's defeating the purpose of a taller tire.
<strong>So does this mean that the Nitto DR 305/45/18s will hook better than the 315/35/17s since they are taller? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, because there's less sidewall on the 18" tire. Taller is better but if you're decreasing the sidewall at the same time, it's defeating the purpose of a taller tire.