Malko

iTrader: (2)

Hello folks,

I wanted to get into auto-x about a year ago, but decided to do the street/drag setup due to my car being an automatic. I know about the Konis and swaybars, and how SFCs don't really do much once you get a decent suspension going.

I crashed my TA early June and am close to being finished with my repairs. I decided it would be a good idea to stick some SFCs on to add some integrity to my re-straightened chassis. You know, my car had never tracked straight until it went on that frame rack, so in a couple ways, I'm glad I had that accident . Hopped in the car today, and boy it was stiff! It doesn't feel too bad right now at all, and I like the pseduo-solidness the car feels like rght now, but I do know that it isn't truely a handling thing.

I plan on keeping my ride at stock height and was wondering if Bilstein HDs would end up sending me to the chiropractor or that it would either stay the same or smooth out my ride? Would it be worth it for me to spend the extra bucks for some revalves if I only plan on staying with a stock spring?

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/554481-bilstein-hd-review-past-impressions-other-mods.html

Supposedly HDs are well matched to stock springs. It works great for me. I wouldn't go revalves on stock springs, either HDs or pony up for Konis.

May Spin

You gave good advice in your previous thread when sugesting to others to fix the car's damper's first. However... For someone looking to further slow roll rates and brake dive I see no reason why someone wouldn't prefer revalves over the HD's. Koni's work fantastic on stock spring rates, and revalves mimic Koni's on a "X" setting, you just forego the flexibility of the SA's (most commonly used) rebound adjustment. Based on the desired result's, revalves if necessary can vastly improve the control of the stock spring rates compared to the standard valving.

Scott.

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

I see what you mean, Scott, it makes lots of sense. My thinking was that many folks don't seem to truly know what they want to achieve or that it changes over time. So with revalves, it's important to get it right the first time as $200 for an adjustment ain't cheap to me. That said, if he got in touch with Strano, hammered out what he really wants, and thinks he'll stay with it - then the revaves make sense. I suppose I was injecting some personal bias. I dang near went with Konis myself in a similar situation but settled on the Bilsteins. They are a relative bargain and make a HUGE difference. The car is great to drive again cocerning both comfort and "handling." Thankfully, I don't know what I am missing with the Konis.

Any Bilstein or Koni will hook him up (pun intended), I was just sharing my decision process. IF you can articulate what you prefer, then revalves may be the ticket.

Good luck, Malko, you can't go wrong with any of the 3 options.
Jason

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You guys make some fantastic points and I can't argue with anyone's reasoning.

Revalving shocks requires some data to be given so that the proper valving can be set depending upon spring rate, sway bar size, ride height ... heck, even tire size could affect the results.

One needs to have a reasonable knowledge base in order to ask for vavling changes. Knowing what your rates are and ride height is is paramount in getting all that you can out of a shock.

In life, however, there comes compromise. When is "close" "good enough"? That's a question only one person can answer.

I guess way back somewhere, my family hails from Missouri ... the show me state. I rarely take anyone's word for anything unless there is verifiable data to substantiate it.

No one in their right mind would think of doing something crazy with a camshaft without knowing full well what the specs are and what the results should be. There are way too many surrounding factors that affect each other when changed.

Any suspension component should be treated identically. Simply following the guru of the day is silly.

If you don't understand, ask WHY a certain component or spec is "the best". Ask WHY a person believes what he does. You get the idea ...

We all have reasons for drawing conclusions. I want to make sure that my hard earned cash goes into something tangeible and not urban legend.

And in this sense of the word, tangible means verifiable. Seat of the pants "feel" means nothing to me as my SOTP is probably a lot larger than yours. Therefore it has a different calibration.

My advice is to anyone wanting to upgrade their suspension is educate yourself. Learning the basics is not hard to grasp.

Peace. out.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

If your primary goal is to smooth out the ride after the SFC install, the HD's will work great. That was my scenario. The car is stiffer 'cause of the SFC's, but the HD's make it much more comfortable, give better rebound control, etc.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Guru speaking--Revalves may or may not be best for the person asking. I don't have ESP, so I can't know without speaking to that person.

HD's are valved for stock springs. That means someone determined a valving spec that in their eyes did an all around good job of damping those springs. They are not firm enough for autocrossing, and I feel they are not firm enough for the car in general. Let's bear in mind there are options on many cars in which the damping changes. Corvettes have multiple different shocks from GM depending what suspension package you choose. BMW has different shocks depending on package, etc, etc.

You want the best body motion control you can have? You don't want HD's, stock springs or not. If you run stock springs, and just want something that keeps you from getting sea-sick then HD's are probably fine. Again, I work on a case-by-case basis. And if I can't give you an idea what might suit you best without talking to you, neither can anyone else with any kind of authority. And a number of folks here also don't look at the shock in all it's functions. You can have a shock that critically damps the springs, but doesn't give you a secure feeling when driven hard.

Also, and it amazes me nobody mentions this now.... 4th HD rears have changed--a LOT, and are not much more like DeCarbon's than they used to be. So, if the old HD was appropriate, the new one is not. If the new one is (and I don't believe it is knowing the valving) than anyone telling you to do them based on the old shocks is giving you bad information.

Malko

iTrader: (2)

Well here is a breif summary of my setup:

-17x9 Firehawk Wheels 275/40/17 all around
- Nitto 555s front 555Rs back
- BMR Boxed SFCs
- Spohn Poly/Poly LCAs (which Sam told me to get rid of awhile ago...)
- BMR tailshaft mounted adjustable torque arm (-2 degrees)
- KYB Gas-a-just rear shocks (they were a cheap replacement for busted shocks)
- The rest is non-WS6 trans am gear

I have a full bolt-on car with a 3400 2.1str stall and a 150 shot of nitrous. Even though I do drag every week or two, this is my DD. What really pushed me now to think about shocks is that I drove a toyota 4-runner that felt better in turns than my car. I hate all that body roll that the car exhibits - doesn't feel like a solid vehicle. The SFCs now feel exactly like what I had imagined - they give a stiff body feeling, but the car does feel very tipsy in the corners. Quite different than before, but you can almost literally feel that you are squishing down that DeCrap shock down on the front.

The question I had has been answered in a way, but I think I'd need to see how different the dampening would be with Sam's reccomendation for revalves vs. the HDs. I need to see where there is 200 bucks worth of extra performance over the HD. I just need an all around big bang for the buck improvement. If I wanted the best, I wouldn't even think about getting the bilsteins. No auto-x, but aggressive street driving has to be possible! I may even consider sway bars in conjuction with the bilsteins if it truely takes out that body roll. Other than that, the only other two parts i would ever consider changing on my suspension is a better PHB and different LCAs.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I'm not going to tell you how I revalve and to what extent in a public place. Sorry. I'll say that we talking changes that are well into double digit numbers percentage wise, as well as different curves in the front. Rears are very, very different as well. I'm not going to convince you that you need the Revalves. I think if you search back and look at people's comment who've had both, you'd have no doubt. The only doubt comes from those that have or had HD's, but nothing else better to compare to. They are the ones telling you how they are "all you need". That opinion is fine, but it's an opinion formed from lack of experience with anything else.

Your shocks suck, you know that. Your LCA setup is not helping you. Your bars are small and you'd certainly see a help if they were changed. You need shocks first, they don't limit body roll, but they slow it down and make the car a lot more stable and quicker reacting. If you still want less roll after that, then we do bars which are hugely more effective on roll than are lowering springs. But a bigger bar in the back right now would be worse, not better because the rear would be MORE nervous because of the shocks and poly/poly arms.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

From the 4th gen e-mail list:

Malko

iTrader: (2)

Sam, are you able to strike a good comprimise between a good agressive street setup without killing off drag-ability with the bilsteins? Yes, I'd much rather have something purpose built, but I wasn't sure if at stock ride height and no auto-x that I'd benefit so much from the revalves. Now I am thinking more so into the revalves if it can give me an edge on my setup by the way you and everyone else talk about them. I want to talk to you on the phone about it for sure!

Thanks for all the input guys! I hope to be riding curves with you guys soon

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

Last I saw thunder racing had em for 33X

JohnTre

$339 http://thunderracing.com/catalog/?ac...&vid=3&pcid=90

I've always gotten great service from Thunder.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I can revalve for a lot of reasons..... HD's might be more suitable for you, I can't really know until we talk it over.