CashMoney

iTrader: (2)

A dude in my class is a 3rd gen owner and he is always talking **** about the 4th gen (specifically my SS). I've ignored him for two months but today I couldn't take it anymore. He said the 3rd Gens handle way better than the 4th gens so he could beat me in the 1/4 and on the twisty roads. I told him to put his money where his mouth is but he refuses and would rather argue like a damn 1st grader. Everything he threw at me I was able to shoot down except the handling aspect. I took my SS near Old Mans cave, OH (which is where road and track took the new vette and viper against each other) and was amazed at how well the SS handled. I offered to pay the dudes track fees for the 1/4 mil and the road course but he won't listen and would rather argue.
I know its retarded to argue with stupid people but he has pushed every one of my buttons and I want to make him look like a complete tool in class on Wednesday. So any of you with exp between the 3rd and 4th gen and why which is better at handling let me know. Even if I am wrong (which I doubt) I'll go to class and admit it.

thanks,
-Nate-

z28hustle

if the older car was better than the newer car the newer one never would have came out. simple as that. tell him to race for money or shut the **** up.

zspot98

iTrader: (87)

Personal preference on which you like more, but if you do race stock for stock in the 1/4 please PM me so I can make a side bet w/ this guy.

94z28L

iTrader: (4)

simple as that, tell him to take his turd gen mulletmobile and go **** his cousin


**no offense to all third gen owners lol**

w02ramair

iTrader: (3)

correct me if I am wrong but I dont believe the rear suspension is any different at all. And the fronts are only different based on shock mounting? Not sure if this is correct or not.

But pull up some Road and Track reviews from the late 80's early 90's on the GTA or Z28 and then pull up some on the 98 to 02's hell even the LT1's that would be fine to. As far as quarter mile....you would so beat his ***. Thats not even worth argueing about.Your talkin the difference between a 15 second car and a 13 second car. As far as autocrossing the difference probably isnt that much different but I am sure the newer car would hand the third gen its *** in that department too based on tires, wheels, and shocks and springs. To me when I get in a third gen it feels like it is to soft but in some newer 4th gens i have gotten in they exibited body roll and understeer too. So I am not really sure on that one.

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

Would Colin Powell argue about something like this? Answer: No. So stay above this guy and just ignore him.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

In a 4th gen, the motor is further back, making the balance better.

In a 98+ 4th gen, the motor is 100lbs lighter, making the balance even better

In 4th gens, it has a true double A-Arm with a coilover shock, stabilizing the front end geometry.

4th gens came standard with 50 more cubes.

That being said .... a 3rd gen can be made to handle quite well.

leadfoot4

iTrader: (1)

I read somewhere that the 3rd gen had some sort of better camber curve, or something along that line. I had an '85 Firebird, and it handled fairly well. I didn't go the whole 9 yards with aftermarket stuff, just a set of lowering springs and wider (15x8) wheels.

My '96 Z-28, which I traded the Firebird for, also handles well. I went a similar route with the Z, lowering springs, and wider wheels (16x9.5).

3rdgentug

iTrader: (23)

a third gen z28, t/a or gta has bigger front and rear sway bars then the 4th gen cars do. ive owned a literal ton of third gens and now only 1 4th gen z28. imho alot of my 3rd gens handled better then this car until i got bigger sway bars and fatter rubber. now id say my 4th gen does. the 4th gen definatly faster stock. and did come standard with 41 more cubes, but the 350 tpi is 4 cubc inches bigger then the ls1 and made more torque, but nowhere near as much higher rpm power.

w02ramair

iTrader: (3)

made more torque..are you crazy?

the stock ws6 sway bars on my trans Am i believe were 32mm..i dont think the ws6 or GTA third gens had anything bigger than that. Plus the brakes on 3'rd gens is a hellava lot smaller.

Unless you got the 1LE package. Now thats a whole nother ball game.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Don't argue..... If he won't go with you to an autocross or some such thing, then ignore him.

There are too many differences in cars and parts to compare. I've competed in and owned both. A stock late 80's early 90's Z28/WS6 is a better handling car in my eyes. Bearing in mind "handling" is a broad brush word. GM mucked up the suspension settings of most 4th gen cars stock. The SS's are better, and better still if they have the Level 1 or Ultra Suspensions. Those options get you very similar handling.

FWIW, 36mm front, 24mm rear bars were common in non-1LE 3rd gens.

Bottom line is, and I think the results from National Solo events prove, that the cars can be comparable, but each has it's strength and weaknesses vs. the other.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (17)

"mullet mobile".... Haha. Thats great......

I know this thread is kinda old. But I gotta stick up for the 3rd gens. Yes...they are slower than a 4thgen. Unless you have 4th gen power under the hood Now where do you stand? I say you will handle better in a 3rd gen. Ive been to a couple auto-x events with my car when it was a 305 TPI. Yes the 1/4 was a joke. However...coming out of corners I could mash the gas, get full power, and not have to worry about smoking the rear tires off. I was at an event in 1998 with a buddy that had a 99WS6 bird. And I pretty much whooped up on him in the twisties.

My feelings towards the 4th gens were always that they were alittle soft. You get into my 87 TA, and it rides kinda crappy.... but so do race cars. The car always outhandled its own powerband. Sway bars were 36/24. And I had the WS6 suspension package.

Like mentioned above... the rear suspension is identical. Also, the statment about the engine sitting further back isnt exactly true, because the drivetrain length is the same. Rear end is basically the same....drivetrain length is the same...so it cant be sitting further back really. The cowls on 4th gens extend further forward. More rake on the wind screen. Same amount of room in front of the motor. The only real difference is the coil overs and double a-arms in the front.

Brakes were sub par, yes... However there are some 3rd gens running around with 4 wheel disc from the factory. Those stopped good enough for most spirited driving.

I guess my point is, there shouldnt be an agument between generations. Keep that argument between the f-bodys and the mustangs. Thats why I built my car. 87 styling and handling, with 4th gen power and economy. Why not mold the two together? Best of both worlds in my opinion. I say with all the 4th gens being wrecked these days, that the 3rd gen guys should take advantage of this and for the LS1 swap. Take a great handling car, triple the power (in some cases), and lighten the front end... whats not to like in that combo?

That kid is a choad for not sticking up for his car by racing it against yours. Especially because you offered to take him to legal places to prove it. Ide be jumping all over that if I were him

J.

coolformula

iTrader: (21)

4th gens have a short long control arm in the front. The reason out of the box the 3rd gen is better, the shocks had better valving and the sway bars much larger. Hence why people upgrade the bards on the 4th gen and the shocks is the first item on the list. But not saying the 3rd gen is bad at all. I love them and want to find a good one....one day

Sneakyws6

I have owend a 3rd gen 350 WS6 car and now a 2001 Formula.

Out of the box my 89 seemed to handle better than the 2001. My 89 ended up only having a sub frame connectors and STB and poly bushing and poly end links. It handle very weel for those mods.

my 2001 handled like crap out of the box. Once I added STB, SFC, Koni's, welded the rear control arms it handled alot better.

Like Sam said, they are alot of pros and cons to each year and both are very formidable cars.

and FYI to whoever said WHAT on the TPI torque amounts...The 350 TPI cars did make more torque than the LT1 and LS1 cars but gave up alot of hp to only the LS1. The LT1 in its 4th gen platform only made 10 more hp in the base model over the L98 motor.

Daez

Even if the 3rd gen did handle even SLIGHTLY better(which I highly doubt).. the 4th gens are so much faster, it still wouldn't matter. I've owned both.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

In general a pissing contest favors the high ground
and a tailwind.

Benjamin Russick

iTrader: (1)

My 1989 Formula WS6 handled better stock than my 2000 Z28. Since both have been modded, I'll give the edge to the Z28. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

And what lap times on what track do you have to back that bold statement up with?

Sgt. Spuds

iTrader: (1)

If a dumb *** highschool kid has a third gen, chances are it has 200k miles on the stock shocks, and the swaybars are rusted, and the bushings are gone. Not to mention the rustyfloor boards and cracked roof line's... Its prolly a peice, as is the owner..

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (8)

My 210K mile 85 Z28 will run circles around my 00 TA on a small autocross course, and will hold (with stability) a high speed curve better. The Z28 has mostly factory upgrades (only aftermarket items are SFCs and LCAs) and 17" wheels. The TA has adjustable shocks, coil-overs, and a complete top of the line Spohn rear suspension, on wider stickier 18s. Both have "performance" alignments done.

BTW - Back as far as 1985 the IROC generated .92-.95 lateral G in every magazine test.

And the guy most likely declined a race due to the overwhelming advantage that your car has. Even if his car did handle better, your power, gearing, and braking should easily overcome that. And if you put up a better time, why should you entertain the idea that his car handles better...