You guys lie about sfcs.
#101
I'm just tired of how things get said on the internet and become universal truths. I hear 'I read/saw/heard it on the internet' 20 times a day. I generally ask from who or what was said and it's that met with 'I don't know'. I'm not sure why in this area folks are so willing to listen to completely anonymous figures they have no personal knowledge of, but they do. I often find myself asking "Who are *they*???". I feel like the Emperor in that Robot Chicken sketch about who blew up the Death Star....
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#102
I have a second hand set of UMI three point bolt-ins waiting to go on my car...
1) They may or may not help, but I don't see them hurting either, especially being that I am in a convertible
2) I'm really not concerned about the weight. Not saying this is the case for everyone on here, but I know I could certainly stand to put down the cheeseburger and completely offset the weight of the SFC's by shrinking my waistline. Just cracks me up, how some of us "heftier" guys are so concerned with a few lbs on the car when we're dragging excess baggage around with us anyway.
3) Everyone's butt dyno is calibrated differently. Some folks would swear they felt a noticeable difference from a spark plug wire swap. Some folks would feel no difference after throwing on a set of headers. Sometimes people want to feel a difference to justify their expenditure they literally imagine the gain.
1) They may or may not help, but I don't see them hurting either, especially being that I am in a convertible
2) I'm really not concerned about the weight. Not saying this is the case for everyone on here, but I know I could certainly stand to put down the cheeseburger and completely offset the weight of the SFC's by shrinking my waistline. Just cracks me up, how some of us "heftier" guys are so concerned with a few lbs on the car when we're dragging excess baggage around with us anyway.
3) Everyone's butt dyno is calibrated differently. Some folks would swear they felt a noticeable difference from a spark plug wire swap. Some folks would feel no difference after throwing on a set of headers. Sometimes people want to feel a difference to justify their expenditure they literally imagine the gain.
#103
#104
Yep.. sub in "______ part" for aluminum falcon and you pretty get it.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#105
haha, werd - the sad part is it'd be a cost savings for me to drop that weight too! And I still don't do it!
#106
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,166
Likes: 217
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Some guys ridicule the "jacking point" factor. But we got ice in KS today with this weird storm, and I had to take off my usual summer tire / Nitto combination and bolt on my Blizzaks. Only had to jack up each side once. Now that's value!
Otherwise, they have upsides (no more RR quarter panel wrinkles) and downsides (increased ride harshness).
Otherwise, they have upsides (no more RR quarter panel wrinkles) and downsides (increased ride harshness).
#107
But that's been proven to be untrue.
There's not even a 100% correlation, as there have been numerous first-hand reports of post-installion wrinkles and dimples after SFCs.
Unless I'm mistaken and hadn't dug enough through the search, I don't think that anyone has been able to counter solid evidence with the claim (that itself was backed up through evidence) that SFCs, by design, don't provide structural support in a manner that would stop those wrinkles/dimples.
Heck, I don't even think there is a true consensus about what actually causes them in the first place, I've seen it divided (albeit unevenly) between "hard launches" and "birthing marks during the forming of the panels during the manufacturing process."
There's not even a 100% correlation, as there have been numerous first-hand reports of post-installion wrinkles and dimples after SFCs.
Unless I'm mistaken and hadn't dug enough through the search, I don't think that anyone has been able to counter solid evidence with the claim (that itself was backed up through evidence) that SFCs, by design, don't provide structural support in a manner that would stop those wrinkles/dimples.
Heck, I don't even think there is a true consensus about what actually causes them in the first place, I've seen it divided (albeit unevenly) between "hard launches" and "birthing marks during the forming of the panels during the manufacturing process."
#108
Id rather have them then not. When I jack the car up on the furthest point forward the rear tire almost raises just as much as the front. If they dont make a difference in chassis support I dont know what would.
I never looked at them as handling mods, its more of a chassis enhancement IMO and its well worth the 15lbs of added weight.
I never looked at them as handling mods, its more of a chassis enhancement IMO and its well worth the 15lbs of added weight.
#109
I would have to believe it would be a matter of if someone decides to install connectors to install a set that ACTUALLY CONNECTS THE FRONT AND REAR SUBFRAMES.
People actually need to look at these cars(3rd and 4th gen) up in the air and realize the outboard side of the LCA box (or entire box for that matter) is NOT part of the rear subframe. On some connectors I have seen the front of it just installs to the forward floor cross brace... not even on the front subfame as well! Not only this but to bolt the connector on the car is just plain worthless. I can guarantee you the flex between the mounting surfaces and long bolts are moving around way before the connector is doing anything to eliminate flex. MWC does not offer bolt-in connectors and never will.
A JACKING RAIL IS NOT A SUBFRAME CONNECTOR! Jacking rails are there to protect the rocker pinch weld and other sheetmetal components. The rocker is the strongest part of a uni-body car anyway- why add material right next to it that don't actually connect the subframes? IMO jacking rails unfortunately have been sold to many of you as subframe connetors.
People actually need to look at these cars(3rd and 4th gen) up in the air and realize the outboard side of the LCA box (or entire box for that matter) is NOT part of the rear subframe. On some connectors I have seen the front of it just installs to the forward floor cross brace... not even on the front subfame as well! Not only this but to bolt the connector on the car is just plain worthless. I can guarantee you the flex between the mounting surfaces and long bolts are moving around way before the connector is doing anything to eliminate flex. MWC does not offer bolt-in connectors and never will.
A JACKING RAIL IS NOT A SUBFRAME CONNECTOR! Jacking rails are there to protect the rocker pinch weld and other sheetmetal components. The rocker is the strongest part of a uni-body car anyway- why add material right next to it that don't actually connect the subframes? IMO jacking rails unfortunately have been sold to many of you as subframe connetors.
#110
I would have to believe it would be a matter of if someone decides to install connectors to install a set that ACTUALLY CONNECTS THE FRONT AND REAR SUBFRAMES.
People actually need to look at these cars(3rd and 4th gen) up in the air and realize the outboard side of the LCA box (or entire box for that matter) is NOT part of the rear subframe. On some connectors I have seen the front of it just installs to the forward floor cross brace... not even on the front subfame as well! Not only this but to bolt the connector on the car is just plain worthless. I can guarantee you the flex between the mounting surfaces and long bolts are moving around way before the connector is doing anything to eliminate flex. MWC does not offer bolt-in connectors and never will.
A JACKING RAIL IS NOT A SUBFRAME CONNECTOR! Jacking rails are there to protect the rocker pinch weld and other sheetmetal components. The rocker is the strongest part of a uni-body car anyway- why add material right next to it that don't actually connect the subframes? IMO jacking rails unfortunately have been sold to many of you as subframe connetors.
People actually need to look at these cars(3rd and 4th gen) up in the air and realize the outboard side of the LCA box (or entire box for that matter) is NOT part of the rear subframe. On some connectors I have seen the front of it just installs to the forward floor cross brace... not even on the front subfame as well! Not only this but to bolt the connector on the car is just plain worthless. I can guarantee you the flex between the mounting surfaces and long bolts are moving around way before the connector is doing anything to eliminate flex. MWC does not offer bolt-in connectors and never will.
A JACKING RAIL IS NOT A SUBFRAME CONNECTOR! Jacking rails are there to protect the rocker pinch weld and other sheetmetal components. The rocker is the strongest part of a uni-body car anyway- why add material right next to it that don't actually connect the subframes? IMO jacking rails unfortunately have been sold to many of you as subframe connetors.
#111
I have the old SSM SFC's on my GTA and BMR ones on my 'vert. My GTA is a hardtop and well the 'vert is, well... a convertible. lol
Anyways, I didn't really notice that much difference in either car. The GTA has an 8pt cage now too which I'm sure helped more than anything else.
The 'vert has LCA's, APHR, STB, shocks/springs... but honestly I think the shocks/springs setup has more to do with my "cowl shake/twist" than the SFC's.
IMHO the SFC's can only help so much... if your overall suspension setup (shocks/springs) aren't controlling the car's movements then the SFC's sure in the hell aren't going to overcome all of that. Similar to the rattle comment made earlier. Just my $.02
Anyways, I didn't really notice that much difference in either car. The GTA has an 8pt cage now too which I'm sure helped more than anything else.
The 'vert has LCA's, APHR, STB, shocks/springs... but honestly I think the shocks/springs setup has more to do with my "cowl shake/twist" than the SFC's.
IMHO the SFC's can only help so much... if your overall suspension setup (shocks/springs) aren't controlling the car's movements then the SFC's sure in the hell aren't going to overcome all of that. Similar to the rattle comment made earlier. Just my $.02
#112
Id rather have them then not. When I jack the car up on the furthest point forward the rear tire almost raises just as much as the front. If they dont make a difference in chassis support I dont know what would.
I never looked at them as handling mods, its more of a chassis enhancement IMO and its well worth the 15lbs of added weight.
I never looked at them as handling mods, its more of a chassis enhancement IMO and its well worth the 15lbs of added weight.
#114
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,166
Likes: 217
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
But that's been proven to be untrue.
There's not even a 100% correlation, as there have been numerous first-hand reports of post-installion wrinkles and dimples after SFCs.
Unless I'm mistaken and hadn't dug enough through the search, I don't think that anyone has been able to counter solid evidence with the claim (that itself was backed up through evidence) that SFCs, by design, don't provide structural support in a manner that would stop those wrinkles/dimples.
Heck, I don't even think there is a true consensus about what actually causes them in the first place, I've seen it divided (albeit unevenly) between "hard launches" and "birthing marks during the forming of the panels during the manufacturing process."
There's not even a 100% correlation, as there have been numerous first-hand reports of post-installion wrinkles and dimples after SFCs.
Unless I'm mistaken and hadn't dug enough through the search, I don't think that anyone has been able to counter solid evidence with the claim (that itself was backed up through evidence) that SFCs, by design, don't provide structural support in a manner that would stop those wrinkles/dimples.
Heck, I don't even think there is a true consensus about what actually causes them in the first place, I've seen it divided (albeit unevenly) between "hard launches" and "birthing marks during the forming of the panels during the manufacturing process."
I also get dimples on the tops of quarters if I go to the track or launch hard on the street. They DO come back after SFC's. I've had them PDR'd out a couple of times. But the crease has never reappeared.
#115
You're right... but then that's not a handling thing. And that certainly is putting a hell of lot of stress into the body. But it also shows the body isn't just twisting so much since it does unload a tire. Of course over time that will just make the body more and more weak. This is a perfect place for 3-points.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#116
You're right... but then that's not a handling thing. And that certainly is putting a hell of lot of stress into the body. But it also shows the body isn't just twisting so much since it does unload a tire. Of course over time that will just make the body more and more weak. This is a perfect place for 3-points.
#117
no problem, and I see exactly why you'd want to go that way. That's the trick with what I do, there is no one answer. And that most *frustrating* think about the internet is how folks take things out of context. If I said to Joe Smith 10 years ago he didn't need them, then that somehow becomes gospel, and that's not how it works.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#118
Hell, I still remember meeting Sam at the local autocross nearly 10 years ago when it was the first time [that I had heard] anyone dispelled the whole notion of SFC's preventing the quarter panel dimples. I even called him out on this very site as "some guy said..." Granted, I had no idea who Sam Strano was back then, but this just goes to show there is no "only one way" when it comes to individual's wants and needs with their vehicles.