UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

If you have SFC's tigthen the front rear control mounts to 90-100 ft lbs. Most SFC's use this area as a mounting location, this now requires much more pressure to compress the bushings.

If you are running UMI SFC's this is the instructions

Ryan

DrkPhynx

I had my SLP SFCs installed by a full time chassis shop, all they did was work on chassis, turn FWD cars into RWD pure drag cars, etc. I remember repeatedly stressing that the car had to be on it's suspension during the install (I'm the paranoid type when it comes to certain things), and they told me they knew, and this wasn't the first time they had done this sort of thing (and they came recommended by a top notch local body shop). I even gave them SLP's directions along with everything.

So basically I never doubted them. Also, that was back in 05 or 06 when it was done, and I don't honestly recall the noise post install. I DID however, notice the noise post-koni upgrade/heater hose mod/PHB install. So again, I thought it had to be something else.

I was ready to put the stock PHB back and test it, when I saw UMI's post above.

Tonight, I went out and washed it and while I was waiting for it to dry, I jacked it up and decided to at least put the torque wrench on the body side LCA bolts and see what I got.

It was a fiasco as there is no room to get anything but a wrench in there, but thankfully I had a good ratcheting wrench, and the bolt itself basically stayed still no matter what I did with the nut.

I had no way of knowing what torque was on those nuts, but my guess is it wasn't even close to 90-100 ft/lbs. I cranked it down as much as I could (with no room for leverage and only a ratcheting wrench, I probably still don't have them tight enough).

It's late now, and I want to wait for it to finish drying and start waxing it in the garage, but tomorrow I should be able to test the effect of tightening those nuts.

It'll be embarassing if that was it this whole time, but also it would be a relief too if I can finally be free of that damned clunking.

DrkPhynx

I had to pull the car out of the driveway to turn it around to bring it in to the garage nose first.

My driveway is on an gradient, so the suspension gets a bit of movememt as I angle it in and out. As I did that, I heard squeaking - for the first time ever. The only thing I did was crank down the nuts on the body side of the LCAs. It almost sounded like I had poly bushings in there, but they are completely stock.

Is it possible I over tightened them? Or does it just need to settle in a bit? I guess I'll find out if a ride will help when I take it out tomorrow. But the last thing I want is a squeak.

Giddswat

iTrader: (13)

Just wondering if you got rid of your thunk? I have a similar noise with the same mods, and was curious if you found the problem.

DrkPhynx

The clunk seems to have gotten quieter. But I can't say it's *the* fix, because I don't know how tight they are right now, or if there's anything else making noise.

Trouble is, I have to put it up on jackstands, but I can only get it up so high. Not high enough for me to get my torque wrench in there. Only thing I could get on was a ratcheting wrench, and I don't know if they are still not tight enough or not. I can't even really get a good look at the C bracket at the end of the SFC that goes around the LCA.

Something tells me it's probably not tight enough and it is the problem. I'm just not sure if its something I'm going to be able to fix or not.

If you can get it up and get under there, give it a go and let us know what you find.

Giddswat

iTrader: (13)

When I get the chance I am going to go over everything again on the rear susp.and see what happens. I will post with results, it may take a week for me to get to it..

SpdFrk1990

iTrader: (6)

I get a crunch noise out of my poly bushings on my UMI lca's I lubed them several times also. Im going to unbolt them saturday and lube the sides and reinstall them and see what I get. I also could not fit a torque wrench on the body side bolts so not sure how people are torqing them. I possibly might of got mine too tight also. If I want to get new bolts what size are they 12mm?

m6speed

iTrader: (11)

i have a umi adjustable phb and it didn't clunk for a couple of months, then all of the sudden started clunking like it was about to blow up. it was torqued down to the right spec and still sounded the same. pm's sent to umi and pretty much said i was sol

STRIPSTAR

iTrader: (4)

I have the same clunking.
im tired of it and im going to take everything apart and try everything.

DrkPhynx

How do people get torque wrenches on the nuts (or bolt heads) on the body side of the LCAs? I went out and bought a 1/2" drive metric short socket set for my torque wrench and it still won't fit. (even a regular thin head 1/2" drive ratchet won't fit in there with a socket) The *only* thing that works for me is a ratcheting box wrench.

A few weeks ago I got under there and cranked down on the nuts (the bolts just don't move no matter how much I tighten the nuts), until I couldn't get any more on there (leverage, and pain from trying to force that skinny wrench handle). I have no idea how tight they got, but, it seemed to help a little bit.

That's what made me go out and buy the socket set, and jack my car up till the nose was practically on the ground (with the stands on the axels, so the suspension remained loaded), and found that the torque wrench still didn't fit. So I got a piece of old exhaust pipe to use as a cheater bar/comfort grip for the ratcheting wrench and really crankd them down.

I swear they won't go much tighter. And the noise has been fairly noticably improved, but.... it hasn't been totally solved. It's still there when you hit torn up roads or big cracks and such.

If that can't cure it, what can? There MUST be a fix for this. It can't possibly be something we have to live with.

SpdFrk1990

iTrader: (6)

I got a torque wrench on mine yesterday it barely fit with a short socket. My suspension noise is pretty much non existent now after I lubed everything really well but now I have an exhaust squeak.

DrkPhynx

Lubing won't help me. It's not a sqeak or a creak, it's a noticable *clunk*. It sounds like something in the suspension is loose, or something very large rattling around. It almost sounds dangerous when it happens, and is extremely annoying.

Do the stock bolts perfectly mate to the stock LCA bushings? I wonder if upsizing the bolt shaft will work.

What did you have to do to get your ratchet in there? Can you take pics of your car? Because there is the body's rear sub frame on the inside that blocks a ratchet from getting on the nut with a socket. If the bolt as a little shorter it might be able to be forced in there.

SpdFrk1990

iTrader: (6)

1/2" bolts fits perfect but you have to force them through the holes on the body. I was worried about that prob and tried half inch bolts but didnt want to hammer them through so I used the 12mm ones instead and I have no clunking but the 1/2 bolts might help you.

DrkPhynx

Thanks. I wonder if enlarging the holes on the body would be harmful, or how difficult it would be to get the bolt though. I'll have to look for some 1/2 Bolts I suppose.

The factory ones are 12mm? Why would the factory mis-match the body-side LCA bolts and holes like that?

SpdFrk1990

iTrader: (6)

The 1/2 bolts might not fit perfect in factory lca's but they do in my umi's and spohns.

DrkPhynx

Any other ideas or comments on this issue? Seems a lot of people have it.

I'm thinking about what happens when it occurs, generally it's when the suspension smacks the ground on a rough road. For instance, driving off a paved section onto a torn up (pre-repaving) section, it's usually an inch or 2 drop. Also, while driving over the torn up road surface there's lots of uneven-ness and it seems to be when the wheels drop off a higher section onto a lower section (although we're talking about a quarter inch of drop from the look of it).

When I pop the hatch and push down on the trunk floor, it's smooth (and fairly soft), and quiet.

When I get the rear up on jackstands (holding the car in the air by the axle, so that the suspension is in it's loaded state) and bang on stuff, I hear nothing rattling or clunking at all. I've checked the exhaust, diff, PHB, wheels, and LCAs near the body.

I found that the exhaust on the drivers side was looser and able to move on the hanger a bit, so I shimmed that up with a combination of pizza-box cardboard and clothes hanger. (worked pretty well actually)

There's a minor rattle in the bottom of the rear bumper cover, but nothing loud enough to hear in the car, let alone while driving it.

I tightened the body side LCA nuts (an unknown amount, but if anything, quite possibly over 100 lb/ft). This seems to have helped quite a bit. But it's still there over harsh sections and higher speeds.

Could it be the rear of the LCAs? They've never been removed (to my knowledge).

Could it be the springs? Since they are supporting the body, I'd expect them to be in constant compression and unable to move or rattle around and clunk. (I *did* do the heater hose mod FWIW)

Could it be the rod ended PHB? It ssems fairly tight (the rod ends themselves) and takes a fair amount of effort to twist the rod around the spheres, so it doesn't seem to be there either.

Is it maybe the lack of those fairly heavy duty rubber isolators (on the rear springs)? I've heard that the heater hose mod doesn't lead noise in the cabin, but I don't know if those people were viewing the cars as race cars, or if they have high tolerances for noise, or if they crank million watt stereos all the time and can never hear it.

I don't know what else to check or do. I wish I could be under there while it drove over roads that caused it so I could try to pin point it. Or had some sort of multi-head fibre optic camera system or something.

I may try pulling the bolt out of the body side of an LCA and see how it fits in the hole. Does anybody know if the 1/2" bolt is a better fit for a *stock* LCA? Does anybody know if the stock bolt has any play in the stock LCA bushing? If I can't upsize the bolt, maybe I can find some way to shim it.


I've mentioned this before, but to recap - A few years back I had SLP SFCs professionally installed and welded in. At the same time I bolted on an SLP STB. Those were the only mods to the car. I never drove it much (and still don't - just rolled over 10K miles this weekend, bought it new in June of 02 with 9 miles on it), but I never heard this clunking noise.

Last year, I installed Koni SA shocks on all corners, performing the front lower perch/rear heater hose mods in the process. I also installed a rod ended PHB, 4 new Rotors, and front pads, all at the same time. A few weeks later I bought and installed BFG g-Force tires (in the stock size, 275/35ZR-17) to get a softer sidewall to help lessen impact harshness over bumps that had always existed, but frankly, got worse with the Konis and heavier (about 1 lb each over stock) rotors. The tires didn't seem to help much, regardless of pressure, but this was near the end of October and it was getting colder and colder, and apparently Koni's aren't happy unless it's over 60*F out. (since once it warmed back up, the impact harshness has dramatically been reduced, and ambient temp is the only thing that's changed)

Now as I said, post SFC/STB install I don't recall this noise at all. It wasn't until the koni/phb/heaterhose/rotor combo install that it came about. And even the softer tires aren't helping.

At this point, I'm even considering replacing the stock PHB, but I'm hesitant because I really don't want to find out that that is the problem - that would be really depressing.

My only complaint with the car is the damn noises it makes, between the horrid sewing machine up front, and the clunking from the rear suspension, it almost ruins the driving experience and makes it embarassing to take it places. But it runs strong, rides nice, and handles very well.

Oh, I should mention, the jack and spare have been pulled, the noise is still there. (but the jack and spare remain out of hte car)

99'CajunFirehawk157

iTrader: (57)

Bump, I got this **** too...

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Thank you Ryan.

You see, the 80ftlb torque rating is for the stock metal tabs so they can squeeze with great force and hold the LCA inner steel bushing solidly in one place. Once you add SFC it's a whole other story. Take a look at this pic. I hope everyone can clearly see that the metal tabs are going to take a lot more force to bend now that the SFC adds it's own tabs. It looks like the metal thickness of the tabs are about 3 times thicker than they were.



What I would recommend is removing the arm and beating the tabs closer together with a large hammer (3lb). Get them close enough that the LCA has to be tapped into place with a small hammer. Now you can crank the bolts down to 80 or more ft lbs. You can even get stronger bolts and torque them more.That should get rid of the clunking.


Now if you have rod ended LCA's, make sure ball and socket is still stiff. If the inner ball is loose and can move freely, then the rod end is worn and slapping around when you hit a bump.

If you have a rod end PHR, check it the same way. If they are still snug and tight in the sockets then you should not get any noise.

Hope this helps.
Jason

P.S. It usually takes a sharp, abrupt bump to make the steel inner LCA sleeve move. That's why it doesn't do it on dips or shallower bumps.

Giddswat

iTrader: (13)

I just finished doing this and it works. No more clunking! Thanks Jason for the info. , it sounds like this will help a lot of people.

White.Lightning

iTrader: (53)

Well after reading this thread, I now have some insight on where to begin. I am going to do a full tune up on the car this weekend and check all bolts on the suspension. I will post up results.

-Suspension mods I currently have:
Polyurethane motor mounts
Edelbrock torque arm w/ poly mount
1LE LCA bushings
UMI LCA relocation brackets
UMI adjustable panhard rod
SLP bolt on subframe connectors
Polyurethane rear sway bar bushings and end link bushings
Brembo blank rotors
Hawk HPS pads

-Andy