Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

That's a little hard to follow to be honest.

Mid 2000 and older SS's had 1LE springs, later ones had normal Z28 stuff unless you got the optional suspension options. If you shocks are orange and not yellow, you have the base suspension.

Lowering springs firm up the ride. I'm not sure why folks think they can get a "stock" ride from springs that are both stiffer and lower than stock. That's not how things work. If you use good shocks, a good ride and in ways like harshness a better ride than stock is very gettable, but it's not as soft as stock.

You get what you pay for on shocks, and like anyting they are not getting any cheaper. I just got a price change today on Bilstein. They went up over $50 a set just like that.

I know Koni's aren't cheap. Then again, no other shock works like, or can do what a Koni can. And to be very blunt about it, shocks are the key to a car that works right. Toss all the other things you want at it, if the shocks aren't good, the car won't drive as well as it should.

You don't want to be "too low", but then you say you want to be about 1" lower. Ok, you can get 1" springs, but what if you find them too firm? What if you find them too low? If you start with Koni's you can see if the height suits you and get to keep you stock springs for ride quality and get way better control out of the superior shock vs. most others. Then if you find you want to be a little lower, you can change springs and be safe in the knowledge you have all the shock you need to control whatever spring you opt for.

vtirocz

Few questions regarding the points brought up earlier in this thread:

1. Would running stock springs on the lower Koni perch hit the bump stop during hard cornering or bumps in the road?
2. How is the working travel of the spring (or shock) compromised by going to the lower perch??? (unless the bump stop is hit, limiting travel)
3. Is there a noticeable difference in harshness by going from upper perch to lower perch?

Thanks.

a383z

iTrader: (2)

Thank you much im new to the whole good ride feature.. I think i will do the koni's first then go to your springs later. With Koni's on the normal pearch and your springs then the ride height should be about a Half inch difference between the lower pearch on stock springs correct?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Answer to 1: Yes. But it also hits @ stock height, and with any springs you could possibly run. It's a long, soft stop that is part of the working of the shocks. The rear of the car is the same way. Folks say they are "bottoming out" because the shocks suck and slam onto and rocket off of the stops because of poor damping, not because they are touching the stops.

2. Working travel is shortened about .4". Stock height is always a little better ride because you have a little more working travel and a little less spring rate.

3. A small difference (not huge by any means) in feel again due to the fact you a little less working travel. But it's far the result you get from a set of stiffer and shorter yet lowering springs.

You never get something for nothing. The question is always what do you gain for what you give up....

This setup is nice for folks that don't want to be as low as lowering springs, or as stiff. It's meant to take he edge off the height, while allowing you to keep your stock springs.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

My springs lower cars on average 1-1.2" in front (varies depending on mods and what the stock height was because they don't all sit the same) and 1.2" in the rear. Averaging the usual drop on the lower perch that'd make my springs about 1/2-3/4" lower than Koni's w/stock spring in the lower perch.

Out back most folks find a 1/2" drop from the isolator mod, and my springs would be about another 1/2"-3/4" lower yet.

I think the idea of Koni's first and trying it before buying springs is extremely wise. In fact I recommend it often to folks not sure if they want springs, but know they want some gap gone.

Again, Koni's are in stock and as always I make sure my customers have all the details for both a good install and the knowledge to adjust the shocks to the best benefit. While a Koni is a Koni, the instructions suck, and very few folks know anything about them. I use them on both my cars, and give about a 10 minute plus explanation of what's what when you get them in hand.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Here are pics of my car with the lower perch and heater hose mod. I got a 3/4" drop f & r. The ride is harsher than my previous Bilsteins, but I never tried the Koni's on the upper perch.

Intercooler2

iTrader: (24)

Have you played much with the settings on the Konis? I thought they were supposed to deliver a better ride than Bilsteins. I finally got off the fence yesterday and ordered SLP Bilsteins so I hope they work well with my BMR springs. They are supposedly SLP specific and work well for 1" drop but can't handle 2" drop.

bene

iTrader: (16)

Good info. I was planning on buying lower springs/konis early next year after I get back from my deployment. These discussions about springs/konis is about to sway me to just buy the konis first.

JD_AMG

Hes comparing the konis on the lowering perch to the bilstiens at stock ride height, apples to oranges.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Intercooler2.... have you called me back? I haven't had time to check my messages yet. I hate to be this blunt, but the internet is not a very detail oriented place. You are kind of swining in the wind with your plans based a post here, a post there. I think some real technical converstaion might serve you well.

Koni's and Bilstein's are not the same. I'm not sure where you read Koni's ride better than Bilstein's because on stock springs that's not the case (but then it's not worse IMHO either depending on settings and height). When you overwhelm a Bilstein's damping with spring, it will ride worse than a Koni (stock shocks are overwhelmed all the time and ride like crap despite being a not very aggressive valving).

SLP shocks were intended for SLP's springs, which are not as low or as stiff as the BMR springs. Automatically you team the shocks with springs beyone their intended range. And SLP stuff was sold though GM on brand-new cars and they wouldn't risk a ride some might have found too firm, so the SLP valving is not very different from HD's. Adequate, not dangerous, but overwhelmed with time as the shocks wear even a little and never as good handling. And ask anyone who's put miles on shocks, when they wear and can't damp the springs as well, the ride suffers it doesn't improve.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Shocks are the messed up thing on the car. You might want springs, and springs have certain jobs to do. I can't say at this point you should or shouldn't. But I can tell you that many I deal with assume they need springs to make things happen that great damping will take care of.

Again, when folks are unsure and are looking for any or all of the following: best ride, a touch of lowering but not down a lot, great damping, then Koni's are the call without a spring change. When folks want more of a drop, a car that rolls and pitches less vs. slower which the shocks do and makes many happy, or a firmer platform then springs come into play.

Don't misunderstand. Good shocks and stock spring make the car much more crisp. You don't need spring to firm up the response and overall feel of the car. Springs do add more to that and lower the Cg more, etc. but even as picky as I am (that works both ways), I don't feel every car needs springs. If you want to add them down the road, you can.... but I think it's best to take things a little more step by step if there is doubt.

taws6

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for posting pics RevGTO, (car looks very slick BTW).

When the front perch is on I'll decide if the drop is enough for me, but I suspect I will still want the back a little lower.

I have toyed with the idea of loads of different things, but now am fairly sure what I NEED, and for handeling, thats Konis.
Thanks to great forum info, and Sam in particular for helping a newbie to realise what these cars really need.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

As I said quite clearly, "I never tried the Koni's on the upper perch."

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

You're welcome.

Intercooler2

iTrader: (24)

Darn. 1" on the perch = ride turns to crap

I'm on par for the course then!

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I don't know who said the ride turns to crap. BTW, what most don't know is the car has very little front shock travel to start with. When lowering the car 1.2" you are left with only about 2" of shock travel. That equates to about 3.4" of compression travel.

Stock height you have about 2.7" of shock compression travel, and 4.5-4.6" of wheel travel.

Lower perch on the Koni's leaves you roughly in between. about 2.35" of shock compression, and 4" or so actual wheel travel.

Intercooler2

iTrader: (24)

Guess that guy up there going from Bilsteins said so. Guess I am the confused one here which is fine. So using stock springs on the lower Koni perch compresses the spring 1" to 1.2"? Given they are so great why wouldn't they shine on stock springs on that setting? Seems that would intensify a hard ride with a more agressive rate lowering spring and a 1"-2" drop?

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

It doesn't compress the spring. Think of it this way. The shock stays at the same location. The spring perch/seat gets lowered down 3/4 inch on the shock. The car's normal load on the spring will now sit 3/4 lower to the ground. The spring stays at the same compression.

In the same sense, the shock's shaft also sits 3/4 closer to its bumpstop.

The stock springs on koni shocks is an option you have where the springs can be controlled by the shock. Not what most shocks out there are capable of. SLP's will be designed to dampen SLP springs properly.

Intercooler2

iTrader: (24)

The SLP Bilstein/Eibach kit is a 1" drop with similar rates. They sell the Bilsteins seperate so that should be close according to their Tech I spoke with to my 1" BMRs.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Intercooler2. I don't mean to sound harsh, but your information is flawed.

I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that the SLP rates are near what your BMR's are. And what's more, if you ask anyone who's had SLP Bilstien's (or regular ones), 99.5% of the time they prefer the Koni's over them. The SLP shocks are meant to do one job. Be competent and don't **** anyone off on the ride side.

Your understanding is very limited here, and I don't know what "tech" you spoke with, but you were told a tale. In fact the SLP springs are widely known to only drop about 3/4" (and that's in the rear, often there is little to no front drop).

Questions are fine. But here they are based on a lot of misinformation, or flat out misunderstandings. Shocks and springs work together, but they have different jobs to. The idea is to sync them up, and if I were forced to choose which I could upgrade, you bet you bottom dollar it'd be the shocks with a premium product over a different set of springs. And remember.... I sell springs, both my own and others. And frankly, cheaper stuff is easier to sell because folks like a "deal". But reality doesn't change for the want of a good deal. Sometimes you have to address the real issue. And for these cars, the issue always starts with dampers.