shorten sway bar end links when car is lowered?
08-03-2008, 01:43 AM
#1
shorten sway bar end links when car is lowered? i have been told you need to shorten the sway bar endlinks when the car is lowered. i am running strano springs so the drop is around 1.2 inches or so. how much am i supposed to shorten the end links?
08-04-2008, 06:49 AM
#3
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You replace them with commonly availible shorter link kits. Look under your car while it's got the wieght on the wheels and determine how much shorter they should be so that the bars sit parralel to the frame. The links will have a 90* angle to the bars at that point. Then look up the closest availible length link kits and buy them. They sell them at many parts stores and a lot of LS1Tech sponcering vendors carry them including Strano.
Vernon
Vernon
08-04-2008, 10:34 AM
#5
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h9b 2c5
98 T/A with strano springs and Konis on standard sway bars for now.I do intend on changing the sways for bigger 1's but these are on till at least next year.Do i absolutely need them or am i good for little while.Car seems to handle well
thanks Bram
08-04-2008, 11:09 AM
#6
i was hoping i could cut the spacers that i have to shorten them. i am not sure if that will work or not but i bought brand new prothane ones that are still in the box a few months ago. i guess if i can't use them then i can't but i was hoping i could.
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08-14-2008, 03:05 PM
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Can someone explain the mechanics behind this one? I was looking at the rear sway bar in some pics in another thread and I can't see how the angle of the arms would change anything, so long as they were at the same angle (and in the case of an adjustable bar, in the same holes).
08-14-2008, 09:25 PM
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Here's a simple demonstration you can do right now sitting in front of the computer.
Take your left index finger, hold it stiff, and point straight up. Now with your right index finger push it straight down. Won't budge much will it? Now hold your left finger at any angle you want and push straight down on it. See how it folds away easily? That's what happens to your sway bar when it's links aren't at right angles to the force they oppose. Your links waste time, motion, and energy trying to fold away instead of just resisting the force so the bars can work. With angled links they have to load up and put significant bind in the suspension before the bars can act. So when the chassis is thrown into a curve your anti-roll rate starts from nothing and hits sudden stop quickly. This usually means a floaty feel, loose grip on any sort of uneven pavement, and crappy transient handling because it breaks loose suddenly.
If the links and mounts are right the bar is allowed to work as intended. It will be at full effect instantainiously and it's torsional resistance will limit the rate of anti-roll progressively with the force applied to it with minimal suspension binding.
You can imagine the problems incurred when only one end is messed up or they load up at different moments. Unlinke having all links right, then the bars load up progressively and you can tune them based on size to reduce under-steer or over-steer as desired.
While we're at it the same pricipal applies to links like the front link in an aftermarket torque arm. 90* under lift and drop or your messing up the rear axle geometry making it move in the direction force pulls or pushes your connecting link. Again with the binding.
Take your left index finger, hold it stiff, and point straight up. Now with your right index finger push it straight down. Won't budge much will it? Now hold your left finger at any angle you want and push straight down on it. See how it folds away easily? That's what happens to your sway bar when it's links aren't at right angles to the force they oppose. Your links waste time, motion, and energy trying to fold away instead of just resisting the force so the bars can work. With angled links they have to load up and put significant bind in the suspension before the bars can act. So when the chassis is thrown into a curve your anti-roll rate starts from nothing and hits sudden stop quickly. This usually means a floaty feel, loose grip on any sort of uneven pavement, and crappy transient handling because it breaks loose suddenly.
If the links and mounts are right the bar is allowed to work as intended. It will be at full effect instantainiously and it's torsional resistance will limit the rate of anti-roll progressively with the force applied to it with minimal suspension binding.
You can imagine the problems incurred when only one end is messed up or they load up at different moments. Unlinke having all links right, then the bars load up progressively and you can tune them based on size to reduce under-steer or over-steer as desired.
While we're at it the same pricipal applies to links like the front link in an aftermarket torque arm. 90* under lift and drop or your messing up the rear axle geometry making it move in the direction force pulls or pushes your connecting link. Again with the binding.
Last edited by Manic Mechanic; 08-14-2008 at 09:33 PM.
08-15-2008, 09:28 AM
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Here's a simple demonstration you can do right now sitting in front of the computer.
Take your left index finger, hold it stiff, and point straight up. Now with your right index finger push it straight down. Won't budge much will it? Now hold your left finger at any angle you want and push straight down on it. See how it folds away easily? That's what happens to your sway bar when it's links aren't at right angles to the force they oppose. Your links waste time, motion, and energy trying to fold away instead of just resisting the force so the bars can work. With angled links they have to load up and put significant bind in the suspension before the bars can act. So when the chassis is thrown into a curve your anti-roll rate starts from nothing and hits sudden stop quickly. This usually means a floaty feel, loose grip on any sort of uneven pavement, and crappy transient handling because it breaks loose suddenly.
If the links and mounts are right the bar is allowed to work as intended. It will be at full effect instantainiously and it's torsional resistance will limit the rate of anti-roll progressively with the force applied to it with minimal suspension binding.
You can imagine the problems incurred when only one end is messed up or they load up at different moments. Unlinke having all links right, then the bars load up progressively and you can tune them based on size to reduce under-steer or over-steer as desired.
While we're at it the same pricipal applies to links like the front link in an aftermarket torque arm. 90* under lift and drop or your messing up the rear axle geometry making it move in the direction force pulls or pushes your connecting link. Again with the binding.
Take your left index finger, hold it stiff, and point straight up. Now with your right index finger push it straight down. Won't budge much will it? Now hold your left finger at any angle you want and push straight down on it. See how it folds away easily? That's what happens to your sway bar when it's links aren't at right angles to the force they oppose. Your links waste time, motion, and energy trying to fold away instead of just resisting the force so the bars can work. With angled links they have to load up and put significant bind in the suspension before the bars can act. So when the chassis is thrown into a curve your anti-roll rate starts from nothing and hits sudden stop quickly. This usually means a floaty feel, loose grip on any sort of uneven pavement, and crappy transient handling because it breaks loose suddenly.
If the links and mounts are right the bar is allowed to work as intended. It will be at full effect instantainiously and it's torsional resistance will limit the rate of anti-roll progressively with the force applied to it with minimal suspension binding.
You can imagine the problems incurred when only one end is messed up or they load up at different moments. Unlinke having all links right, then the bars load up progressively and you can tune them based on size to reduce under-steer or over-steer as desired.
While we're at it the same pricipal applies to links like the front link in an aftermarket torque arm. 90* under lift and drop or your messing up the rear axle geometry making it move in the direction force pulls or pushes your connecting link. Again with the binding.
09-04-2008, 02:07 PM
#12
You replace them with commonly availible shorter link kits. Look under your car while it's got the wieght on the wheels and determine how much shorter they should be so that the bars sit parralel to the frame. The links will have a 90* angle to the bars at that point. Then look up the closest availible length link kits and buy them. They sell them at many parts stores and a lot of LS1Tech sponcering vendors carry them including Strano.
Vernon
Vernon
does anybody have a part number for the shorter endlinks? i checked with NAPA and Checker and neither could help me. thanks.
edit**
found some info at the following link. will try to crossreference myself.
http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/endl.html
edit again***
our new autozone just opened. carry the Energy suspension endlinks. got the 1 5/8 length, cut a 3/8 in spacer, and bought longer 10.9 grade bolts. will install this weekend. about $25 total for everything.
Last edited by mterveen; 09-05-2008 at 07:38 PM. Reason: found some info
09-04-2008, 10:16 PM
#14
i thought the longer end links preload the swaybar if anything.
on an old beater mitsubishi ages ago, i put additional washwers onto the end links for that preload and it responded quicker (tighter, but not flatter as it was the stock swaybar).
time to start trolling the miata boards for insight...
on an old beater mitsubishi ages ago, i put additional washwers onto the end links for that preload and it responded quicker (tighter, but not flatter as it was the stock swaybar).
time to start trolling the miata boards for insight...
09-04-2008, 10:47 PM
#15
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debating on weather this is absolutely necessary since i bought a bushing kit for my new 24mm rear sway, and my car is lowered i think 1.5 or 1.2 inch but its no problem for me since my dads a machinist and can grind away some from the spacers
09-05-2008, 05:42 AM
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I wouldn't "preload" suspension bushings that need to articulate. That will bind it and make it handle worse. Getting rid of free play is good, making it too stiff to move freely is bad.
If you're going to put a 24mm rear bar in make sure your front bar is set up as well as possible. You're going to a rear heavy set-up already, don't limit your front bar's effectivness on top of that. Get the front bar level.
Vernon
If you're going to put a 24mm rear bar in make sure your front bar is set up as well as possible. You're going to a rear heavy set-up already, don't limit your front bar's effectivness on top of that. Get the front bar level.
Vernon
09-20-2008, 06:22 PM
#17
FWIW, i just broke both of mine an hour ago installing some koni's and eibach pro's. Oreillys has moog p# k6630 and autozone has duralast p# sl69 for $11 and $4.40 respectively. I measured both from the lower pinch point to see where they would place the sway bar, the duralast places the sway bar 1/2" lower than the moog.
The duralast places the sway bar at the same height as factory, the moog would place it higher. If your lowering about an inch and a half like me, the duralast would be your best bet. The moog places it higher than factory.
I'm going with the duralast for now. Chime in if there's a better product out there, (calling Sam)!
The duralast places the sway bar at the same height as factory, the moog would place it higher. If your lowering about an inch and a half like me, the duralast would be your best bet. The moog places it higher than factory.
I'm going with the duralast for now. Chime in if there's a better product out there, (calling Sam)!
09-20-2008, 10:30 PM
#18
wow, this is also the first i've ever heard of this, and i did quite a bit of research on the boards here before i chose my Koni/Strano setup. what's the best way to determine the optimal length endlinks for a particular amount of drop over stock height? or if there are set values, what length do i need for the 1.2" drop that the Strano springs give me?
09-20-2008, 10:43 PM
#19
wow, this is also the first i've ever heard of this, and i did quite a bit of research on the boards here before i chose my Koni/Strano setup. what's the best way to determine the optimal length endlinks for a particular amount of drop over stock height? or if there are set values, what length do i need for the 1.2" drop that the Strano springs give me?
10-15-2008, 12:31 PM
#20
... ran across this and very curious to what the final verdict might be on using different height endlinks for a lowered car.
So, what's the final verdict? Duralast endlinks? ... or do we even need to use a different sized endlink if your car is lowered?
So, what's the final verdict? Duralast endlinks? ... or do we even need to use a different sized endlink if your car is lowered?