trackbird

iTrader: (4)

TA, Good point. So far we (between message boards) have come up with 4 failures so far (and quickly). I'm curious to see how many there are (I just chucked my BMR goodies....before this thread started due to $5 rod ends and "wagon train noises")


Kevin

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Chalk up another one, Kevin ...

bigshoe just posted on the "other" board that his BMR poly bushings were coming apart.

SilverTAWS6

5 failures for all of BMR's parts is not bad (especially the abuse some people put the parts through). I bet for those 5 failures, you could locate failures on Lou G's parts. No offense meant to Lou (his parts are definitely world class ), but I'm sure he could even tell you that sometimes things can happen when parts are built that cause them to fail prematurely (extra stress when built, bad components, etc).

You're also leaving out this (copied from LS1.com)

I personally have BMR parts (subframes, stb, lca's, panhard, swaybar) and have had them (minus the swaybar) since about 2000 miles (I now am approaching 30k). I've drag raced hundreds of passes and autocrossed quite a bit on the parts and haven't broken them yet (knock on wood). I'll probably be replacing the LCA's with Lou's at some point (poly bad, rod good) and definitely getting a Lou G TA .

I just think that b/c there are a FEW incidents of parts breaking from one company that it's a little extreme to call the company crap.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify, by bad components, I meant something like a problem with one of the components (ie rod ends) that would have been built by another company.

Chris

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Fair enough.

Just make sure, next time, you cut-n-paste everything, not just what suits your POV ...

How do you "justify away" the other "few"?

SilverTAWS6

Geez, no need to get pissy. I didn't mean any offense to you or anything and I can certainly understand why you'd be pissed off, I just thought that was an important piece of the information that was left out. I didn't see any need to copy a whole bunch of speculation, just the simple fact that it could have put stress on it to break it later.

As stated in the above post I said that all companies have a few bad parts out there that could be caused from many different reasons during manufacturing and stuff. Like I said I don't feel a few incidents are enough to justify calling a whole company crap.

Chris

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I'm sure that Mitch was more than a little upset when he put up the original post (with crap in the title). However, it does seem to be a pattern with BMR using "substandard" parts (the parts they weld up are fine, it is the rest of the package that seems to be designed to maximize profits).

I posted this earlier....

I don't feel that BMR is doing this on purpose, I think they are buying poly bushings and inexpensive rod ends that are "good enough", and in several cases, it doesn't seem that they truly are (good enough). I have seen worn out poly bushings before, but rarely have I seen them crack in half (my personal experience). It looks like a paticularly "hard" poly that they are using (speculation, I've not done a proper hardness test on any bushings). I guess some research is in order.....


As to BMR being crap. I have to say that they make a perfectly acceptable strut tower brace, and I'll be leaving that BMR part on my car (proudly displayed under a closed hood....).

Personally, I won't purchase much else from them. I was considering the adjustable front control arms, but if the rod ends they use only last a year or so on the rear, I suspect they are a "time bomb" under the front (where they will see increased rotational travel and such).

As always, just my thoughts......

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Not pissy ... just making sure all the facts are represented, as posted. And what you suggested is "fair enough", like I said.

Look, I too spent a lot of money on BMR parts. I bought them because they were less expensive. I too was reluctant to believe that the parts were inferior.

But each time I've had a handling issue or a part issue, the cause has been traced BACK to BMR parts. And honestly, I would probably STILL have BMR parts on my car if LG hadn't offered me a money back guarantee if the problem I was seeing wasn't solved. Does he offer that to everyone? I dunno.

Now, I've ended up paying the original purchase price for BMR parts and subsequently the replacement cost for parts that really are "quality" pieces.

Like any other part that we collectively "buy", feedback on it's performance helps everyone make prudent purchase decisions.

If your personal risk threshold is OK for a one time $40 savings, then that's the price one puts on their car. Just like using Mobil 1 vs Havoline ... one choses M1 over Havoline because "it's better". How is making the choice between LGM vs BMR any different?

SilverTAWS6

Well, your response sure did seem pissy, especially indicating that I only copied part of that to show off "my point of view". You seem to be indicating to people an attitude of "go ahead and spend less, don't be surprised when you break". I know many people running BMR suspension parts that haven't broken and have been fine.

That being said, for handling, I'd always recommend LG Poly/Rod LCA's (albeit they do make some noise over stock) and definitely the LG Torque arm (it's a NICE unit). The only time I'd recommend BMR Poly/Poly LCA's is for the drag strip, but I personally don't like BMR's torque arm (don't like the design). And BMR's rod ends are junky compared to Lou's.

That does seem like Lou's standard warranty. He's very good in that sense with making sure the customer's happy. In fact, my friend had some trouble with a USED torque arm (not a warranty issue, more of stuff got messed up b/c of the person who had it before him) and Lou offered to fix it for him for basically nothing.

I just wanted to get the point across that just because someone has a BMR part on their car doesn't mean it's going to now fall to pieces suddenly.

Chris

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

That is a good point. It is not likley to break unless it is being "beat on" at the time. I doubt that there will be many failures in daily driving. The warning here is to "keep an eye on things" and don't let the subtle hints of a pending failure slip by (like mitches tire rubbing and then the PHB let go....). 85% of the parts currently on cars will never get close to "failure", but there are those who will push things over the edge, and to them the warning is simple. "Inspect your suspension parts often (no matter who made them), the harder you run, the more often you need to get under there and look". I don't think Mitch is trying to "cause mass panic", but several of us have learned that buying BMR stuff has caused us to "buy it twice" and maybe we can save a few $$$ for the "racer types" out there....

That's all...

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You did only copy a partial message, leaving out a LOT of explaination and background information. I'm not here to make friends, but to learn and give back some of my experience. I try to be fair in posting my opinions and expect no less from anyone else.

I hope you let your friends know that several of us have had problems and that they should keep a close eye on their parts.

It's not just "someone" rather "someseveral". And, unfortunately, catastrophic failure is typically sudden and usually in the worst possible situation.

Fortunately for me, I was doing about 45mph, on a closed course, all traffic going the same direction and nothing to hit. I shudder had that happened entering a Dallas freeway at 5pm.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

I applaud Mitch's expression of his experiences. I believe he's exactly right in that you pay for what you get. Going against the grain is never easy, Mitch. Keep up the good work.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I stuck it in the other post earlier...Mitch and I have a new battle cry...

"they build 'em, we buy 'em, break 'em and post about 'em"

The truth, the whole truth and (however bad it may be) nothing but the truth!!!

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

I like it assuming its handled professionally (i.e. not turning into a bash session), which I believe it will be. A good supplier should take these observations to heart and make improvements to the design if necessary. That's the kind of thing these boards should be used for anyway IMO.

AllZWay

iTrader: (1)

You can add my BMR PHB to the list of poly bushing failure.
I heard a pretty good clunk last time at the road course, but just now had a chance to research the problem. Mitch sorta lead me in the direction of where to look.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I agree. I am here to discuss parts, design, upgrades, improvements, etc. No matter what the topic, somebody will "always take it personally". Mitch has taken his fair share of abuse on this one. And, I understand how frustrated he was when the post went up originally. Many have taken issue with the "crap" statement in the post title. It may be a little harsh, it also may be correct. It is an opinion, and a strong one at that. However, we are seeing some evidence that is showing a "trend" here. It appears that BMR is using parts built to a "minimum standard" for poly bushings, rod ends, etc. As I once stated, their "bars" (the stuff they weld up) seems to be decent stuff. It is the parts they are using to "complete" the package that I take issue with. I would like nothing more than for BMR to drop in and see what we are learning, but it appears that they will not. I may drop them an E-mail regarding the whole thing and post what I find out.

Somebody mentioned that "5 failures out of the whole lot is not bad". That is a reasonable point. However, I'm still concerned about the quality of the parts they are selling. My feeling is that many of us are not as hard on cars as we think we are and therefore, the parts are "holding up" (for now).

As for attacking ones character. I'm not sure it will help anything, so I try to avoid that one. There have been some misunderstandings, and a few "jabs" here and there throughout this post. Some may be founded, many are not.

As for the assumption that running a few open track events per year constitutes "abuse". I'm not so sure. On a road course, you will typically find smoother surfaces than you ever find on the street. The loads can be "great" (due to race tires), but probably not any worse than someone hitting a curb or a nasty pothole. The point is that when things fail on "track", there is runoff room and hopefully the only damage is to that persons pride. If I hit a pothole, or swerve to avoid something in the road and clip a curb in the process which results in a suspension failure, I just made a bad situation "worse". Now I really have my hands full, dodging something in the road and driving through a suspension failure (if it is even possible). This is the worst case, but is it very possible. Things usually fail at the worst possible moment. You will probably not break a PHB running to the store for groceries, you'll break it avoiding an accident on that same trip. It probably won't fail while driving down the interstate, it will be more likley to fail when you are avoiding a car that just shot into your lane. The point is that failures can and do happen, usually at the worst possible time. So far, I'm not seeing anyone breaking many factory parts (that look to be weaker than BMR's parts....looks may be deceiving). I'm not seeing anyone posting about LG parts failing (not to pick on LG), I've never seen a hotchkiss part break (I don't like their design, but they don't seem to fail). So, it is becoming an area of concern. These things get posted in an effort to help the manufacturer improve their product and to help you save money (by not buying parts twice). Nobody is trying to put BMR out of business. On the contrary, the industry needs "value leader" parts. Good stuff for little dough. But, we would like to see those parts hold up a little better than they do. Apparently Mitch (and I) would hate to see someone get hurt because they decided to save $20 on a set of control arms, etc. That is the whole message here. If we can get BMR to "fix it", even better....

As always...

Just my thoughts (and plenty of them).....

Kevin

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

See my new thread ...

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

As I was sitting around my office today, pondering the meaning of life I came upon a realization.

BMR has changed their product. There is a new design for the poly/poly adjustable PHB. They have bestowed upon us this:



Which doesn't look like much of an improvement. I'd say the "ends" are strong enough (unless the bushings destroy themselves...which is still possible). I'm now concerned about the adjuster in the center and it's load bearing capacity. If you grab a metal rod and bend it until it kinks, it will usually kink in the center (the two ends become "levers" to kink the center, where the force equalizes between the ends and therefore concentrates). I'm starting to think that BMR is aware of the problem with the design of the old parts and that is the reason behind the change. I think the bushing problem is somewhat solved, I'm just not sure that the part is any better....

Hey Mitch, I'll order one up and we can hit the track and try it out!!! (you drive first).

Anyway...I'm done with this topic (I hope) now......

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I know I showed the LCA's...same thing...just shorter....

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I know, Kevin.

The engineer that dreamed that up graduated valedictorian at the Darwin College of Natural Selection.

I can hear the design team now ...

"How about we take a piece of metal, cut it in half, weld some nuts on it, use a piece of all-thread to link them."

"Yeah, even though once set, you never have to adjust it, let's market it as adjustable."

"Hey, don't bogart that doob, bud"

"Won't it be weaker though?"

"Sure. But that means more sales because schmucks on the internet will believe anything."

"Gimme a hit next."

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

"Still smoking man....."

(Cheech and Chong)