Took off muffler and lost 50hp??
09-07-2010, 10:53 AM
#22
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haha yes I will most likely do that. I was just curious as to how it would sound and why the loss of power
09-07-2010, 12:34 PM
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you are almost right. it's not rescrictions that give you torque. idk who told you that(or anybody else) it's smaller diameter tubing that sees and increase in low end torque. by having a smaller diameter and effectively less volume to fill, the exhaust gasses move through the system at a higher velocity.(aka it's more effecient at a lower rpm)
when you cut the muffler off of a car's exhaust a few things happen:
1) the heat dissapating effect increases, which means the exhaust gas temps are going to fall dramaticaly. cold gas is heavier than hot gas, and as a result it's harder to move.(a cut out is usually pretty close to the headers, which means the gas is still hot when it exits)
2) the pulsing effect changes(energy waves). long tube headers will stack pulses losely where as stock manifolds stack them tightly. but either way each pulse through a system sucks the next one along.(just like high and low pressure systems in weather) the problem lays when you make these pulses irregular. part of a mufflers job is to keep them regular through the length of the exhaust system. but don't get it twisted you CAN do this with out a muffler.
3) another job of a good muffler is reducing the reversion wave, which is a wave that reverberates back up to the head and exhaust valve. another way to help reduce this is by having equal length pipes with a good crossover or merge(paired with a good muffler)
remember an exhaust system can not create power or torque it can only sculpt it.
when you cut the muffler off of a car's exhaust a few things happen:
1) the heat dissapating effect increases, which means the exhaust gas temps are going to fall dramaticaly. cold gas is heavier than hot gas, and as a result it's harder to move.(a cut out is usually pretty close to the headers, which means the gas is still hot when it exits)
2) the pulsing effect changes(energy waves). long tube headers will stack pulses losely where as stock manifolds stack them tightly. but either way each pulse through a system sucks the next one along.(just like high and low pressure systems in weather) the problem lays when you make these pulses irregular. part of a mufflers job is to keep them regular through the length of the exhaust system. but don't get it twisted you CAN do this with out a muffler.
3) another job of a good muffler is reducing the reversion wave, which is a wave that reverberates back up to the head and exhaust valve. another way to help reduce this is by having equal length pipes with a good crossover or merge(paired with a good muffler)
remember an exhaust system can not create power or torque it can only sculpt it.
Except the last part... I don't quite agree. An exhaust system might not CREATE power like a cam or intake manifold, etc, but it will add HP. For example, if I had a stock muffler on a cammed car, tuned it the best possible way, it'd have X amount of HP/TQ. If I didn't change anything except the muffler, I'd be able to get X+~15 HP/TQ.
09-07-2010, 12:37 PM
#25
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VERY good stuff ^^^
Except the last part... I don't quite agree. An exhaust system might not CREATE power like a cam or intake manifold, etc, but it will add HP. For example, if I had a stock muffler on a cammed car, tuned it the best possible way, it'd have X amount of HP/TQ. If I didn't change anything except the muffler, I'd be able to get X+~15 HP/TQ.
Except the last part... I don't quite agree. An exhaust system might not CREATE power like a cam or intake manifold, etc, but it will add HP. For example, if I had a stock muffler on a cammed car, tuned it the best possible way, it'd have X amount of HP/TQ. If I didn't change anything except the muffler, I'd be able to get X+~15 HP/TQ.
09-07-2010, 03:17 PM
#26
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VERY good stuff ^^^
Except the last part... I don't quite agree. An exhaust system might not CREATE power like a cam or intake manifold, etc, but it will add HP. For example, if I had a stock muffler on a cammed car, tuned it the best possible way, it'd have X amount of HP/TQ. If I didn't change anything except the muffler, I'd be able to get X+~15 HP/TQ.
Except the last part... I don't quite agree. An exhaust system might not CREATE power like a cam or intake manifold, etc, but it will add HP. For example, if I had a stock muffler on a cammed car, tuned it the best possible way, it'd have X amount of HP/TQ. If I didn't change anything except the muffler, I'd be able to get X+~15 HP/TQ.
think of it as an instrument. say a trombone, what happens when you move the slide back and forth? what happens if you cut the bell off? or put a ridiculously large bell on it?......now it would still play, am i right? just changes the WAY it plays, yes it might sound like dog ****. or it might sound great. but the player is what creates the sound in the same way the power plant in a car creates power. and the pipes on a trombone just sculpts the sound....much in the same way the pipes on a car sculpts the hp/tq curve.
just my thoughts. call me crazy.
p.s. also what you just said is contradictory, you actually just admitted that exhaust "might not CREATE power" which is my point exactly. secondly an intake manifold does not create power either. that is also external and also sculpts the hp/tq curve. if you want to actually create more power, in the purest sense of the word, you would have to have a bigger combustion. ie: more fuel, more air, hotter spark.(also more displacement can allow for this) what you are thinking of is the exhaust freeing up hp. not CREATING it.
Last edited by brian_rs/ss; 09-07-2010 at 03:24 PM.
09-07-2010, 05:12 PM
#27
I still aggree with Ross; but if you like the sound w/o the muffler just sell the magnaflow and look into a LM1, Borla, or TSP Rumbler. I had the borla on my 02 Z with QTP headers, off road Y, and flowmaster Merge. It was extremely loud to the point where I used the adjustable plate with the smallest hole.
Last edited by redz_02; 09-07-2010 at 05:36 PM.
09-07-2010, 05:46 PM
#28
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OK yeah it doesn't CREATE hp, but it does free it up. I guess is how I meant to say it. I still don't think "sculping curves" is how I'd describe it completely tho. That makes it sound like you won't gain hp/tq, just make it spike faster or slower in different RPM ranges etc.
And I guess I meant that an intake manifold "adds" hp, like it allows more air flow into the combustion chamber, but that's just the opposite of exhause allowing more air out of the combustion chamber.
I think of non-hp adders as like a torque converter on a automatic tranny. It doesn't add hp or free up hp, but it will make the car faster.
And I guess I meant that an intake manifold "adds" hp, like it allows more air flow into the combustion chamber, but that's just the opposite of exhause allowing more air out of the combustion chamber.
I think of non-hp adders as like a torque converter on a automatic tranny. It doesn't add hp or free up hp, but it will make the car faster.
