My thoughts on performance shops
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: allen, tx
Im a store manager here in dallas, tx for national tire and battery. God do i ever have to bite my tongue sometimes. We have customers come in all the time that need a transmission flush or power steering flush. Some customer will tell us that they will just do it themselves. lol. I forgot you must have a flush machine at home yet they are at my store for a simple oil change. Doesnt add up.
I did everything i could on my 67 but when it comes to body work i had to take it to a professional. I visited 7 shops around the area. Ive run into everything from half *** work, semi quality, thieves, and people that didnt know their *** from a hole in the ground.
I did everything i could on my 67 but when it comes to body work i had to take it to a professional. I visited 7 shops around the area. Ive run into everything from half *** work, semi quality, thieves, and people that didnt know their *** from a hole in the ground.
I don't necessarily try to impose what i think the problem is, but i do tend to let the shop know. I just don't like when the shop starts trying to fix things while trouble shooting and the price goes up without you ever giving the okay.
100% on this one. had a guy come in for a misfire. He took it to a shop and walk out with a 1,200 bill and a misfire. Then it landed with me. had new coils, pcm,wire harness, valve springs, and wires. took me 20 mins to pull the plugs, # 7 hariline cracks on the plug and dident match the other one's. I couldent charge him any money I just felt bad for him. So we went and purchase some new plugs I showed him how to change them and boom, Car runs like a champ.
I dont mind mind helping the diy guys because they are willing to learn and take the plunge.
I'm bored at work. I have had no issues with shops lately, but I've read a couple threads that got me thinking. I just thought I'd share my view of performance shops.
There are two kinds of performance shops; Professionals, and well-equipped hobbyists. 95% of the shops out there are well-equipped hobbyists. What I mean by this is that the people working there are no smarter or more meticulous than your average garage-based gear head. They just have more tools, more experience, and maybe a bit more knowledge. You can tell the type especially when problems arise because they're thoughts on how to troubleshoot a problem are not very analytical. These shops often make the kind of mistakes that I would make (cuz I'm a newbie), only I have to pay them to make the mistakes and often have to fix them myself.
The other type of shop is much more rare. These people are true professionals. They are often life-long racers. I only consider two shops I've ever been to real professionals. The first is an engine builder, and this man knows everything about his business. The engines he builds exceed expectations and are reliable. My father went to this man with an 11.0 car and asked for it to be a 10.5 car. It came back as a 10.0 car. He then asked for a high nines and got a 9.40 car. This engine builder works primarily with big blocks and nitrous. When asked about a Procharger setup, he said he would refer my father to another shop because that wasn't his business. That is professional.
The other shop I've done business with is primarily a chassis shop. This shop literally builds cars from scratch. I've been in their shop and seen a car taking shape from nothing more than tubing and bar stock. The car was being built for the salt flats. I had these guys cut the front of my car up for a custom radiator, and my father had them back half his car. The owner worked everything up in CAD before ordering a part or turning a wrench. After the backhalf job, my dad's car pulled to the right on the leave five times in a row. We took it back to him, and he simply replied, "My cars don't do that." He asked about where were racing, and he said that we should take it elsewhere since every pass was in the same lane of the same track. He said if it happened elsewhere to bring the car back immediately, and he'd fix it. Turns out, it actually was the track. This man is a professional.
In short, most shops are useless to people who have the nerve and will to do their own work. As long as you have decent access to tools, most shops have nothing to offer you that you don't already have at your disposal. There is the rare occasion, though, where you find someone who is truly a professional and can attack a problem with a lifetime of experience that you can never hope to match.
There are two kinds of performance shops; Professionals, and well-equipped hobbyists. 95% of the shops out there are well-equipped hobbyists. What I mean by this is that the people working there are no smarter or more meticulous than your average garage-based gear head. They just have more tools, more experience, and maybe a bit more knowledge. You can tell the type especially when problems arise because they're thoughts on how to troubleshoot a problem are not very analytical. These shops often make the kind of mistakes that I would make (cuz I'm a newbie), only I have to pay them to make the mistakes and often have to fix them myself.
The other type of shop is much more rare. These people are true professionals. They are often life-long racers. I only consider two shops I've ever been to real professionals. The first is an engine builder, and this man knows everything about his business. The engines he builds exceed expectations and are reliable. My father went to this man with an 11.0 car and asked for it to be a 10.5 car. It came back as a 10.0 car. He then asked for a high nines and got a 9.40 car. This engine builder works primarily with big blocks and nitrous. When asked about a Procharger setup, he said he would refer my father to another shop because that wasn't his business. That is professional.
The other shop I've done business with is primarily a chassis shop. This shop literally builds cars from scratch. I've been in their shop and seen a car taking shape from nothing more than tubing and bar stock. The car was being built for the salt flats. I had these guys cut the front of my car up for a custom radiator, and my father had them back half his car. The owner worked everything up in CAD before ordering a part or turning a wrench. After the backhalf job, my dad's car pulled to the right on the leave five times in a row. We took it back to him, and he simply replied, "My cars don't do that." He asked about where were racing, and he said that we should take it elsewhere since every pass was in the same lane of the same track. He said if it happened elsewhere to bring the car back immediately, and he'd fix it. Turns out, it actually was the track. This man is a professional.
In short, most shops are useless to people who have the nerve and will to do their own work. As long as you have decent access to tools, most shops have nothing to offer you that you don't already have at your disposal. There is the rare occasion, though, where you find someone who is truly a professional and can attack a problem with a lifetime of experience that you can never hope to match.
Actually I can diagnose problems pretty damn well, but it is not my career. More experienced people should be better, but that is rarely the case. I see big builds leave big name shops that have nothing but issues once done b/c of small mistakes like loose bolts, etc. I don't have those issues when I do the work myself. I want that level of comfort when I'm doing 140mph+. LS1 Tech Stories
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In my experience most of my problems have been what I call 'dirt floor guys'. Guys that are supposed to be awesome or the best at whatever and end up keeping your car forever, probably not doing any work (or just taking it apart) and losing parts.
Not saying that there are not great small shops out there but this has been my experience.
I had a guy take a year to paint my 65 and it doesnt look any better than a production body shop- in fact it looks worse.... Yet he was supposed to be one of the best.
Not saying that there are not great small shops out there but this has been my experience.
I had a guy take a year to paint my 65 and it doesnt look any better than a production body shop- in fact it looks worse.... Yet he was supposed to be one of the best.
What im saying is that anybody can take off part A and install part A revision B. However it takes a pro to change the whole way part A,B,C and D all mesh and do it in a timely and cosmeticlly appealling manner. Also, no "KIT" is ever "bolt on" and when someone can still put it on and make it look like it does in the magazine well then you have a pro. I work on peoples cars all the time that have home built fuel systems and the regulators are sitting on top of the fuel rails. Or when that nitrous car comes in with butt connectors and looks like a birds nest at the solanoids...what I am saying is to get that magazine car to look that way all kinds of stuff got changed, moved or modified. You can install your parts on your car I get it...I intall them and then the car ends up on the front cover of a magazine. A pro makes **** look good and work right every time.
The worst are customers who "read this or that on the internet" and since they read it on some forum it has to be 100% correct and thats got to be whats wrong with there car also.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
For me, I usually have a few specific needs that have to be met by a shop. I try my best to find what I would call a "professional" shop to do it, but that's not always an option.
what annoys gearheads when they take a car to a regular shop (not some place where you pay premium dollar for real premium work) is that you're really not paying for their experience or skills or ability to do something that's complicated that you couldn't do. it's you're paying someone else shop rates for labor just cuz they have access to something like a lift or some other rare/large tool that you dont or cant have. It's those situations that are annoying. I dont think it would be annoying when you really dont want to do something yourself or simply dont know how, but when you do know how, are willing ...but just cant.
I have a shop do most of my work now because my time is now worth more than it used to be. (I still do all the easy stuff, but no transmission work or internal motor work anymore)
I know how to do all the work, but would rather pay someone to do it so I could be more productive with my time elsewhere.
I know how to do all the work, but would rather pay someone to do it so I could be more productive with my time elsewhere.
I LOL at shops that talk about the customers work.
I bet if you go look at the majority of the mechanic owned vehicles they will have miss-matched parts on their personal cars. It’s easy to say you should have done this or that when you’re not paying for the parts. There is nothing wrong with using different plug wires if you are in a bind or just don't have the money to buy a new set.
I know when I started building cars way back in the day don't think I did not have several motors that had different casting heads, Pistons, etc... I did what I had to do to make my car run. Most that do know me from back then knows I had some throw together junk that was fast. 10-15 years ago an bottom 10 second street car was fast.
I have seen some work that has come out of some shops that looked like it was their 1st time working on a car... I will applaud a customer that tried to do his own work. There is never a better feeling that you get when you accomplished a project yourself than just handing over a credit card. Just because you have the money does not mean you have to pay someone to do everything for you.
I bet if you go look at the majority of the mechanic owned vehicles they will have miss-matched parts on their personal cars. It’s easy to say you should have done this or that when you’re not paying for the parts. There is nothing wrong with using different plug wires if you are in a bind or just don't have the money to buy a new set.
I know when I started building cars way back in the day don't think I did not have several motors that had different casting heads, Pistons, etc... I did what I had to do to make my car run. Most that do know me from back then knows I had some throw together junk that was fast. 10-15 years ago an bottom 10 second street car was fast.
I have seen some work that has come out of some shops that looked like it was their 1st time working on a car... I will applaud a customer that tried to do his own work. There is never a better feeling that you get when you accomplished a project yourself than just handing over a credit card. Just because you have the money does not mean you have to pay someone to do everything for you.
I agree with a lot of stuff that has been said, but I figured I'd throw my .02 in here and say that I also hate it when you tell someone what they need to fix a problem, and they do everything else and complain that they still have the problem lol! All I am saying if you need something and cant afford it don't buy something else lol! Just wait and buy the right stuff the first time ha ha.