My thoughts on performance shops
04-04-2011, 10:00 AM
#1
11Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My thoughts on performance shops I'm bored at work. I have had no issues with shops lately, but I've read a couple threads that got me thinking. I just thought I'd share my view of performance shops.
There are two kinds of performance shops; Professionals, and well-equipped hobbyists. 95% of the shops out there are well-equipped hobbyists. What I mean by this is that the people working there are no smarter or more meticulous than your average garage-based gear head. They just have more tools, more experience, and maybe a bit more knowledge. You can tell the type especially when problems arise because they're thoughts on how to troubleshoot a problem are not very analytical. These shops often make the kind of mistakes that I would make (cuz I'm a newbie), only I have to pay them to make the mistakes and often have to fix them myself.
The other type of shop is much more rare. These people are true professionals. They are often life-long racers. I only consider two shops I've ever been to real professionals. The first is an engine builder, and this man knows everything about his business. The engines he builds exceed expectations and are reliable. My father went to this man with an 11.0 car and asked for it to be a 10.5 car. It came back as a 10.0 car. He then asked for a high nines and got a 9.40 car. This engine builder works primarily with big blocks and nitrous. When asked about a Procharger setup, he said he would refer my father to another shop because that wasn't his business. That is professional.
The other shop I've done business with is primarily a chassis shop. This shop literally builds cars from scratch. I've been in their shop and seen a car taking shape from nothing more than tubing and bar stock. The car was being built for the salt flats. I had these guys cut the front of my car up for a custom radiator, and my father had them back half his car. The owner worked everything up in CAD before ordering a part or turning a wrench. After the backhalf job, my dad's car pulled to the right on the leave five times in a row. We took it back to him, and he simply replied, "My cars don't do that." He asked about where were racing, and he said that we should take it elsewhere since every pass was in the same lane of the same track. He said if it happened elsewhere to bring the car back immediately, and he'd fix it. Turns out, it actually was the track. This man is a professional.
In short, most shops are useless to people who have the nerve and will to do their own work. As long as you have decent access to tools, most shops have nothing to offer you that you don't already have at your disposal. There is the rare occasion, though, where you find someone who is truly a professional and can attack a problem with a lifetime of experience that you can never hope to match.
There are two kinds of performance shops; Professionals, and well-equipped hobbyists. 95% of the shops out there are well-equipped hobbyists. What I mean by this is that the people working there are no smarter or more meticulous than your average garage-based gear head. They just have more tools, more experience, and maybe a bit more knowledge. You can tell the type especially when problems arise because they're thoughts on how to troubleshoot a problem are not very analytical. These shops often make the kind of mistakes that I would make (cuz I'm a newbie), only I have to pay them to make the mistakes and often have to fix them myself.
The other type of shop is much more rare. These people are true professionals. They are often life-long racers. I only consider two shops I've ever been to real professionals. The first is an engine builder, and this man knows everything about his business. The engines he builds exceed expectations and are reliable. My father went to this man with an 11.0 car and asked for it to be a 10.5 car. It came back as a 10.0 car. He then asked for a high nines and got a 9.40 car. This engine builder works primarily with big blocks and nitrous. When asked about a Procharger setup, he said he would refer my father to another shop because that wasn't his business. That is professional.
The other shop I've done business with is primarily a chassis shop. This shop literally builds cars from scratch. I've been in their shop and seen a car taking shape from nothing more than tubing and bar stock. The car was being built for the salt flats. I had these guys cut the front of my car up for a custom radiator, and my father had them back half his car. The owner worked everything up in CAD before ordering a part or turning a wrench. After the backhalf job, my dad's car pulled to the right on the leave five times in a row. We took it back to him, and he simply replied, "My cars don't do that." He asked about where were racing, and he said that we should take it elsewhere since every pass was in the same lane of the same track. He said if it happened elsewhere to bring the car back immediately, and he'd fix it. Turns out, it actually was the track. This man is a professional.
In short, most shops are useless to people who have the nerve and will to do their own work. As long as you have decent access to tools, most shops have nothing to offer you that you don't already have at your disposal. There is the rare occasion, though, where you find someone who is truly a professional and can attack a problem with a lifetime of experience that you can never hope to match.
04-04-2011, 02:38 PM
#3
I disagree. I work at a performance shop and can say there is a **** ton of stuff you have to know...just becuase you can work on your own car doesnt mean you can do everything to any car that rolls in not every camaro or trans am is built alike as well as its completly different working on an fbody than it is on a gto or vette. A tech needs to be able to make anything go fast.
04-04-2011, 02:53 PM
#6
11Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 99mongooSS
I disagree. I work at a performance shop and can say there is a **** ton of stuff you have to know...just becuase you can work on your own car doesnt mean you can do everything to any car that rolls in not every camaro or trans am is built alike as well as its completly different working on an fbody than it is on a gto or vette. A tech needs to be able to make anything go fast.
I know that people in these shops have more experience. I know they know things I don't. I also know that I am smart enough to learn and that the information I don't have is out there to be gained. Once I gain the knowledge and acquire the tools, with a little care and work, I can do a better job than the average shop will do.
It amazes me how often I'll have a problem, bring my car to a shop, and the situation follows this basic outline: 1) I explain the problem, 2) I explain what I think the problem might be based on my somewhat limited experience, 3) The shop troubleshoots the problem, 4) They make changes to the car that cost me money, 5) It turns out I was right and bringing the car to the shop was a waste of my time and money.
If I bring my car to one of the shops I mentioned in the original post, I don't even mention what I think the problem is because I know they'll find it before I could. On the rare occasion when I have mentioned what I thought the problem was, if they disagreed with me, it was because I was wrong. I don't have that experience with the other 95% of the shops I've dealt with.
04-04-2011, 02:57 PM
#7
11Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess a better way to say what I mean is this... If I research and get a conceptual understanding of how something works on my car, 95% of the shops out there will do a worse job than me troubleshooting a problem. They have knowledge and experience, but those are rarely a match for strong conceptual understanding and analytical thinking.
Trending Topics
04-04-2011, 03:01 PM
#9
11 Second Club
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It amazes me how often I'll have a problem, bring my car to a shop, and the situation follows this basic outline: 1) I explain the problem, 2) I explain what I think the problem might be based on my somewhat limited experience, 3) The shop troubleshoots the problem, 4) They make changes to the car that cost me money, 5) It turns out I was right and bringing the car to the shop was a waste of my time and money.
If you took it to a shop and explained the problem, paid for a diagnostic, they fixed what they thought was wrong and it wasn't right - you don't owe money and they must re-diagnose and continue to fix it until they get it right.
Anyone who tries charges you for doing something that didn't fix your problem shouldn't get paid and probably wouldn't be in business for very long. Just my opinion based on my experience.
04-04-2011, 03:24 PM
#11
11Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think everyone is misunderstanding my purpose in posting. I'm not complaining. I haven't had my car in a shop for months. I'm just pointing out that I find a very defining difference between what I consider professional shops and just the run-of-the-mill shops out there. I was curious if others felt the same way.
I think the "run-of-the-mill" shops have a place, but it's serving people who can't learn, don't want to learn, or don't have the time/willingness to do their own work. Before I got the nerve to try to do things I'd never done before, these shops got a lot of my business. I recently had a shop like this do a clutch swap for me because I didn't have the energy to do it myself at the time.
I think the "run-of-the-mill" shops have a place, but it's serving people who can't learn, don't want to learn, or don't have the time/willingness to do their own work. Before I got the nerve to try to do things I'd never done before, these shops got a lot of my business. I recently had a shop like this do a clutch swap for me because I didn't have the energy to do it myself at the time.
04-04-2011, 03:41 PM
#13
8 Sec Tuner
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Wish I was in a boat fishing...
Posts: 4,641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see guys like this all the time. They think they know it all and do all ther own work.. And when the car comes in for a tune its got like 4 different kind of spark plug wires...
04-04-2011, 03:48 PM
#14
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've always wondered how much shop owners have to bite their tongue around customers.
04-04-2011, 03:56 PM
#16
Teching In
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tomball, Tx.
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if you actually knew your head would explode.
usually repair shops will fix what a customer diagnoses just to teach the customer a lesson in a way because if the customer is not mechanically inclined they are wrong 90% of the time. eventually they'll shut up and let the techs do their jobs to get the car fixed correctly. i agree with gauge on this one though, their are those that can R&R parts then their are those that can diagnose/build/tune cars.
04-04-2011, 04:31 PM
#19
8 Sec Tuner
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Wish I was in a boat fishing...
Posts: 4,641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if you actually knew your head would explode.
usually repair shops will fix what a customer diagnoses just to teach the customer a lesson in a way because if the customer is not mechanically inclined they are wrong 90% of the time. eventually they'll shut up and let the techs do their jobs to get the car fixed correctly. i agree with gauge on this one though, their are those that can R&R parts then their are those that can diagnose/build/tune cars.
usually repair shops will fix what a customer diagnoses just to teach the customer a lesson in a way because if the customer is not mechanically inclined they are wrong 90% of the time. eventually they'll shut up and let the techs do their jobs to get the car fixed correctly. i agree with gauge on this one though, their are those that can R&R parts then their are those that can diagnose/build/tune cars.
We call it customer diagnosis. Had a guy come in with a rear end noise. My tech looked at the car and told me it had a bent axel. I told the customer this and he was postive it needed a new ring and pinion (and thats all he wanted changed). We installed a ring and pinion and the car made the same noise.
After that he then let us replace the bent axel...
