Kelly Blue Book
05-15-2011, 08:39 AM
#1
Kelly Blue Book OK I don't want to troll up anyone else's thread so here is mine. Feel free to chime in......
I always see people "Quoting" KBB. And insisting that IS the value of their vehicle. I have seen it several times on this site.
First & foremost that is a national average. Not what that exact car that exact color 2 driveways down sells for everyday!
Second it is an approximation of the price it "should" be worth.
Finally ANYTHING is only worth what you or someone else is willing to pay for it. Be it car, boat, house, or a friggin roll of toilet paper!!!!!
So in ending this I would like to say...........If Kelly Blue Book is "YOUR" Bible, then by all means sell it to KBB! Oh thats right they wont buy you car
I always see people "Quoting" KBB. And insisting that IS the value of their vehicle. I have seen it several times on this site.
First & foremost that is a national average. Not what that exact car that exact color 2 driveways down sells for everyday!
Second it is an approximation of the price it "should" be worth.
Finally ANYTHING is only worth what you or someone else is willing to pay for it. Be it car, boat, house, or a friggin roll of toilet paper!!!!!
So in ending this I would like to say...........If Kelly Blue Book is "YOUR" Bible, then by all means sell it to KBB! Oh thats right they wont buy you car
05-15-2011, 08:53 AM
#2
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2 things
#1 kbb is California based, therefore their values are a little higher than other states......im not sure if they have changed their value system but they were way off a few years back....... so i would go by n.a.d.a., or i would go by the average price of the same vehicle with similar features & mileage at autotrader...... you can compare many of the same or similar cars and see what they're going for
#2 "book value" & "retail value" are two totally different things..... retail value meaning real world, right here, right now
example: the "book value" for trade in on a truck may be $20,000 but because of the gas prices the "retail value" could be $15,000...... why the big difference??? well, because nobody is buying trucks......, and they are getting flooded with people wanting to trade them in for more fuel efficient vehicles...... this floods the market with trucks and dealers dont want their money invested in a lot full of vehicles that aren't selling..... so if they are going to be put in that situation they will either decline to accept it for trade in or offer a very low amount
there are many different examples, the gas price/truck value is just one of them to help explain that even though the book might say one thing, the real time right here right now market says another
.
#1 kbb is California based, therefore their values are a little higher than other states......im not sure if they have changed their value system but they were way off a few years back....... so i would go by n.a.d.a., or i would go by the average price of the same vehicle with similar features & mileage at autotrader...... you can compare many of the same or similar cars and see what they're going for
#2 "book value" & "retail value" are two totally different things..... retail value meaning real world, right here, right now
example: the "book value" for trade in on a truck may be $20,000 but because of the gas prices the "retail value" could be $15,000...... why the big difference??? well, because nobody is buying trucks......, and they are getting flooded with people wanting to trade them in for more fuel efficient vehicles...... this floods the market with trucks and dealers dont want their money invested in a lot full of vehicles that aren't selling..... so if they are going to be put in that situation they will either decline to accept it for trade in or offer a very low amount
there are many different examples, the gas price/truck value is just one of them to help explain that even though the book might say one thing, the real time right here right now market says another
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Last edited by Ruthless Robbie; 05-15-2011 at 09:08 AM.
05-15-2011, 09:49 AM
#4
"Retail" is what is the price on a car lot. There is some recourse if there is an issue post sale as oppposed to "Private" sale which is "as is" in most cases. Retail gives the buyer some assurances that it is fairly represented.
Not so much in a "Private" sale.
In the example #2 above, that describes "Fair Market Value" which takes into consideration the extraordnary circumstances.
Not so much in a "Private" sale.
In the example #2 above, that describes "Fair Market Value" which takes into consideration the extraordnary circumstances.
05-15-2011, 10:42 AM
#5
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Citing any book price from any of the available online sources has always cracked me up. Hell book value on my Z71 if it was stock is almost 9000, if I could get that much for my over decade old truck with close to 200K on it, Id sell it in a heartbeat 
Citing KBB is almost as bad as the guys who think they will get back dollar for dollar out of the mods on their car when they sell, the market(here) from what Ive seen is closer to 1/3 of new price for mods
Citing KBB is almost as bad as the guys who think they will get back dollar for dollar out of the mods on their car when they sell, the market(here) from what Ive seen is closer to 1/3 of new price for mods
05-15-2011, 05:10 PM
#7
Citing any book price from any of the available online sources has always cracked me up. Hell book value on my Z71 if it was stock is almost 9000, if I could get that much for my over decade old truck with close to 200K on it, Id sell it in a heartbeat
Citing KBB is almost as bad as the guys who think they will get back dollar for dollar out of the mods on their car when they sell, the market(here) from what Ive seen is closer to 1/3 of new price for mods
Citing KBB is almost as bad as the guys who think they will get back dollar for dollar out of the mods on their car when they sell, the market(here) from what Ive seen is closer to 1/3 of new price for mods
A lot of dealerships use NADA
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05-16-2011, 03:19 PM
#11
TECH Apprentice
Banks go by NADA. Most people don't have cash to buy stuff so you go to a bank to get this cash, well a bank is just not going to give out what the seller says it is worth. There is sweet spot when it comes to this. For example try and buy a 01 Fbody with every mod and a Pro charger etc installed with over 100k in miles as opposed to a stock 01 with 25k miles and not a single mod. It will be much easier to get the loan for the stock one.
A bank will not see mods as value, miles and condition of the vehicle is what is taken into account to determine the worth. Now if you have cash on hand and don't need a loan, this is really a moot point.
A bank will not see mods as value, miles and condition of the vehicle is what is taken into account to determine the worth. Now if you have cash on hand and don't need a loan, this is really a moot point.
05-16-2011, 03:36 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by seller
Yes, but, my Trans Am is special because it is one of only 300 made in 2000 with tan interior, and only 100 of those were NBM. Pontiac isn't around anymore, so it's a collector car now.
Originally Posted by seller
Plus, I've done a lot of stuff to it, so you won't have to.
Originally Posted by seller
And I don't really have to sell it, but if I can get this price for it I'll sell it.
People tend to forget, these cars might mean something to them, but to a potential buyer (especially one on this site, who knows how hard these cars tend to get beaten on), it's just the next project. Every now and then, there's a diamond in the rough, but most of the F-bodies for sale these days have seen three or more owners, and a lot of modding and track time.
-Mike
05-16-2011, 04:33 PM
#13
Banks go by NADA. Most people don't have cash to buy stuff so you go to a bank to get this cash, well a bank is just not going to give out what the seller says it is worth. There is sweet spot when it comes to this. For example try and buy a 01 Fbody with every mod and a Pro charger etc installed with over 100k in miles as opposed to a stock 01 with 25k miles and not a single mod. It will be much easier to get the loan for the stock one.
A bank will not see mods as value, miles and condition of the vehicle is what is taken into account to determine the worth. Now if you have cash on hand and don't need a loan, this is really a moot point.
A bank will not see mods as value, miles and condition of the vehicle is what is taken into account to determine the worth. Now if you have cash on hand and don't need a loan, this is really a moot point.
05-16-2011, 04:37 PM
#15
I agree with all of this. There are specific situations that are out of line with NADA but it is a good starting point.
Interestingly NADA says my 10th anniv trans am is worth $50k..... I would be lucky to get 15
NADA said our Mystic Cobra was only worth $8k max yet I had to fight to get what I wanted for 12.
Finally- there are the situations where it really is worth what the seller thinks it is. 20th anniv trans am's went through this a couple years ago. They would only bid up to $7-8k but sellers weren't letting them go for much less than $12 for a nice one.
Interestingly NADA says my 10th anniv trans am is worth $50k..... I would be lucky to get 15
NADA said our Mystic Cobra was only worth $8k max yet I had to fight to get what I wanted for 12.
Finally- there are the situations where it really is worth what the seller thinks it is. 20th anniv trans am's went through this a couple years ago. They would only bid up to $7-8k but sellers weren't letting them go for much less than $12 for a nice one.
05-16-2011, 06:46 PM
#16
Tin Foil Hat Wearin' Fool
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Another thing that pisses me off that Im dealing with right now is Standard Presumptive Value. Damn tax office uses that to figure how much you should pay on taxes when you buy a vehicle private party. The truck I bought according to their system says its value is 11,800. Its a base model ecsb 2004 silverado with 88K on it 
The only way to get the value lower is to go get it "appraised" by an insurance adjuster. Any idiot can tell a "gas guzzling" truck in this economy isnt worth **** not to mention the damn thing is almost a decade old. I paid 8500 for it with a ton of performance parts, no way in hell Im paying taxes on almost 12K.
The only way to get the value lower is to go get it "appraised" by an insurance adjuster. Any idiot can tell a "gas guzzling" truck in this economy isnt worth **** not to mention the damn thing is almost a decade old. I paid 8500 for it with a ton of performance parts, no way in hell Im paying taxes on almost 12K.
05-16-2011, 07:54 PM
#17
Book Values are to be used as a guide and not an authority. Most dealerships quote trade in values based on either NADA, Black Book, KBB, and/or Manheim (if Wholesale). Some use a mixture of the first three, some prefer one over the other or a mixture of two.
With that said, a vehicles value is based on two things - what the seller is willing to take and what the buyer is willing to offer. The bank on the other hand only cares about Year, Make, Model, Trim, and Mileage. They don't care about options or modifications and loan on the base value of the vehicle. Some banks and Credit Union's will loan on NADA Wholesale value if it's an older vehicle. You won't find this value online for free but the bank/CU should quote you without a problem.
No one should care what you're asking for a vehicle unless they're interested in buying it. From that point it's a matter of making both parties content with the deal.
With that said, a vehicles value is based on two things - what the seller is willing to take and what the buyer is willing to offer. The bank on the other hand only cares about Year, Make, Model, Trim, and Mileage. They don't care about options or modifications and loan on the base value of the vehicle. Some banks and Credit Union's will loan on NADA Wholesale value if it's an older vehicle. You won't find this value online for free but the bank/CU should quote you without a problem.
No one should care what you're asking for a vehicle unless they're interested in buying it. From that point it's a matter of making both parties content with the deal.
