warpwr

Stock show room cars that got into the 12's would have been real rare if any existed at all back then....my buddies '55 Chevy with '62 blueprinted 283 (Dual quads, 301) was neck snapping quick and it went 12.99 best as I recall. It was not close to stock.
The thing is.....a regular old car in those days was pretty slow by comparison. Still lots of flatheads and stuff running around.

I am constantly amazed at how quick stock cars are today. Especially the 'muscle' cars.
My 02 SS A4 is bone stock. It still has the original tires, windshield wiper blades, battery, etc.
I don't remember many factory cars back in '66 that could even come close to it in a drag race. AC Cobra comes to mind, but that's not really a stock car.

Top ten Fuel burnin' Funny Cars of 1966.....
1966 1 7.600 190.27 Jack Chrisman Kendall GT-1 Ford 66 Comet AAFC CA 1966
1966 2 7.900 196.60 Dick Landy Landy's Dodge Chry 66 Coronet AAFC CA 1966
1966 3 8.010 177.86 Jim Liberman Jungle Jim Chev 66 Nova SXS CA 1966
1966 4 8.040 200.44 Emory Cook Dart 2/Swamp Rat 9 Dodg 66 Dart AAFC MI 1966
1966 5 8.180 196.40 Connie Swingle AMT Piranha Chry 66 Corvair AAFC CA 1966
1966 6 8.215 192.50 Gary Southern Stinger II Chry 66 Stinger AAFC CA 1966
1966 7 8.265 175.40 Don Nicholson Eliminator I Ford 66 Fairlane AAFC GA 1966
1966 8 8.280 174.00 Ed Schartman Roy Steffey Enterprises SOHC 66 Comet AAFC OH 1966
1966 9 8.295 182.64 Walt Stevens AMT Piranha Chry 66 Corvair AAFD CA 1966
1966 10 8.330 152.34 Bill Lawton Tasca Ford Ford 66 Mustang AAFC RI 1966

Source: http://www.draglist.com/drllist.htm

69gto96z

iTrader: (13)

I used to have a 69 GTO that was bone stock except the tires and would do high 14's.

1320FEVER

iTrader: (9)

Wow, that is interesting. I also read that in the early 70's Prostocks were running 9.90s. Today, there are plenty of cars that drive to the track that go faster than that

Greed4Speed

iTrader: (7)

You have to realize that the old muscle cars hp and tq ratings were gross numbers. The modern ratings are net. So say the 70 LT-1 fron a Z28 was 360 hp but that was at the flywheel w/out any accessories (gross). Now look at the LS1 in a Z28, rated at 305 but have been known to make that and more at the wheels. Figure a 15% loss from drive train and accessories and that venerable LT-1 only puts out 306 hp at the wheels.

I'll put it to you this way. I sold my 70 SS to get my 00 SS and have yet to regret it.

Its funny, when you're young the car you have is the fastest but when you get old the car you had was the fastest. I reality, most of the old muscle cars were 14 second rides. I can remember when low 14's high 13's were considered good for a modified street car, but its laughable now days even for a stock V8.

firebirdls1us

just some times of a few I had in early 70's
70,Challenger 440-six pack with the red line tires all it could muster was 13.90
68 gtx 440-4bbl 14.35 if I remember correctly it had the same type of tire as the challenger
70, charger r/t 440-4bbl 14.50
69 charger s/e 383-4bbl 14.80 and all 4 of these cars had the 727 torque flight auto's
and keep in mind that was on old polyglass tires with the challenger it would almost break them loose at will.Now I had a friend that had a 69 plymouth r/r with a street hemi it ran into the low 11's on slicks but this car did'nt have anything in it no radio alum. bumpers non-metal hood so it was built to run.It was not your regular street car this thing was fast and alot of torque.And these times on my cars are from my best recolection but there very close a couple is dead on.

THE_SUPRA

the HEMI darts did 10.xxx but they were rare and expensive... other than that just about everything was in the 14's-15's with thoes craptastic tires...

Elite_Hot_Rod

Buick had a performance division that did a bunch of mods to stage 2 455's. These were built by the factory for racing in the super stock class I think. The factory mod sheets I saw calls it a stage 3.

BigBronco

iTrader: (2)

but back then... turning 8,000 rpm and running in the Nine's N/A was a big deal.

Do you still remember how long it took for a N/A LS1 to break into the Nines.

SERIALPIMP

iTrader: (4)

My 2 cents,
I have alot of books on the subject
and used to attend the Texas Muscle Car Club Challenges, where alot of near stock muscle cars were racing regularly,

Most of the cars from the laste 60's ran in the 14's and 15's,
which was fast for back then.
With a bigger Cam, Headers, Intake, Exhaust alot would get into the 12's.
Several of the cars that people ordered from the factory with the higher performance options would get into the low 13's.
You had to have a car that was the shiznitz, like an LS6 Chevelle, SD 455 TA, Ram Air IV or Ram Air V GTO, or a Buick GSX to get in the 12's on motor from the factory,
and even then you were not guaranteed it, just like you are not guaranteed to run a 13.10 in an LS1 stock, at least not every car, at every track, but some might.

I can personally say from experience that a bone stock 69 GTO w/Ram IV Motor runs 13.4 @103 in Texas, and a 69 Pontiac Trans Am, bone stock even down to the distributor runs a 13.4@109 or at least the friend's who I have who have those cars,
and they are bone *** stock, that is what they run.

The first Muscle car is the GTO, in 64,
it was an option on the Tempest, that 3 guys at Pontiac pirated their way into doing,
before GM new it the guys at Pontiac had people beating down dealership doors for the GTO,
they told Chevy to get in the game with the SS, and Olds, Buick, Etc. as well.

My favorite car is a 69 GTO Judge,
and of course there several really nice ones as well, the Mopars are all pretty cool,
but they were all rattle traps back in the day,

My Friend's 68 Charger, w/ 4.10's and a factory 383 Magnum motor, with an intake manifold, Holley 650 DP, and an Accel Coil ran 12.80's. Otherwise stock car.

Most of the real muscle cars I have been around match up with the high 13's, 14's, and low 15's that the magazines said they run back in the day, but of course everyone likes to remember things the way they want to,
I try to be objective.
You would not believe how bad I get attacked when I say a stock 5.0 Mustang ran a 15.1-15.3 in Texas elevation and weather.

AGRV8D

iTrader: (19)

Damn i opened a can of worms.... he said he was specifically talking about ordering a car back then from "FACTORY" with all different parts and it would be warrentied just as if he had bought it off the showroom....

SERIALPIMP

iTrader: (4)

You could order cars back then with alot of options that would be really cool,
but not much different than today, if you think about being able to order a Saleen or Roush Mustang, or Berger Camaro, or Gibbs Truck/Tahoe, etc.

There were alot of dealerships that jumped on the performance bandwagon, and would do dealership packages, like the "Royal Bobcat" for the GTO, etc,

You could get a Baldwin Motion Camaro, Yenko, etc. much like you can go see MTI and get a Z07 Vette, or used to be able to go to LG Motorsports and get a ZR28,

In hindsight alot of people remember these cars, and not all the plane jane camaros with a 307 in them.

So, to respond to the question, yeah you could get a car straight from the dealership that ran 12's, but its not like everyone did, just like today you can get an 07 Z06, but not everyone does.

warpwr

I've heard the "GTO was the first muscle car" theory before. Not true, don't buy it!
Below info is from muscle car club dot com....



Comments: 1961 would be the year that the first true muscle car was introduced, the Chevrolet Impala SS. This would also be the year that Chevrolet introduced its 409 cubic inch V8, the engine that would launch the Big Three auto manufacturers into the horsepower race that would last well into the 1970s. The 409 was actually a response to Ford's new 390 cid engine, which was outperforming Chevy's on the dragstrip. Although it put out "only" 360 bhp compared to Ford's top 375 bhp, those extra 19 cid gave it respect on the street and immortalized in song ("She's really fine, my 409"). Chevrolet introduced the Super Sport (SS) option package, which was optional on the 348 and standard with the 409, which would define Chevrolet performance for many years to come. The Super Sport package, a bargin at just $53.80, consisted of special body and interior trim, power steering, power brakes with sintered metallic linings, full wheel covers with a three blade spinner, a passenger grab bar, a console for the floor shift, and a tachometer on the steering column. The 409 engine came only with the four-speed manual transmission and only one factory axle ratio. Lower axle ratios were available from the dealer and owners could see 1/4 mile times in the high 15s, which was pretty impressive in 1961. Unfortunately, the 409 already came with 11.25 compression and a four barrel carburetor, and due to its wedge shaped combustion chambers was not very easy to improve performance further. But no matter. Although only 142 Impala SS 409s were built in 1961 (and most went to good customers that would run them at the local dragstrips), the legend was born and the horsepower race was on.

Production: Impala SS: 453 Impala SS w/ 409 V8: 142
Engines: 348 (4 bbl) V8 305 bhp. 348 V8 340 bhp. 348 (3x2 bbl) V8 350 bhp. 409 V8 360 bhp @ 5800 rpm, 409 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm.
Performance: 409/360: 0-60 in 7.8 sec. 1/4 mile in 15.8 sec. @ 94.1 mph.



Then in 1962.....
But the real news was the improved top of the line 409 which added a pair of Carter AFB four barrel carbs and a lightweight valve train, and produced an astonishing 409 bhp, or a magical 1 bhp per cid. The 409 legend grew.


so....by 1964 Plymouth, Dodge, Chevrolet and Ford all had muscle cars. Some of 'em pretty potent if you think about hemispherical combustion chambers, Hilborn fuel injection and stuff.

SERIALPIMP

iTrader: (4)

I don't dispute any of your information,
but there is a ton of stuff our there in published books talking about the politics behind the Muscle Car era, and Pontiac specifically.

I started saying back in 94 that it seemed like a 2nd muscle car era was happening, after the anemic 73-86 periods, and then when things really started to warmup with the LT1 cars, going mid to low 14's stock.

lt1_fool

My dad tells me, the 1970 ls6 chevelle he had in highschool (ya, tell me about how lucky THAT was) ran high 12's with open headers, dual holley 750 carbs, aftermarket intake manifold, and slicks. He said the slicks still weren't anything like they have out today though.

Greed4Speed

iTrader: (7)

That isn't stock now is it? My 70 SS I had right out of highschool and owned for 12 years ran high 12's also. This was in full street trim. It only had a little 350, full exhaust (even up and over the axel), w/a single carb and street tires, but it wasn't stock either.

texasreb18

iTrader: (1)

In the May '07 issue of HOT ROD they spoke of some very lightweight, factory '68 426 hemi darts running high 10's at 120mph

Gold Z

iTrader: (3)

The factory hotrods came with NO factory warranty. For that matter ever the 271 hp 289 engine in the 64 through 66 Mustang came with no factory warranty. If you will research factory production numbers you will find that extremely few of the factory hotrods such as the GM COPO cars were ever produced. You could not walk into any dealer and buy one because only a few select dealerships even knew the order codes existed. The few select dealers that did offer the COPO type cars sold very few of them because they were horribly expensive back then. They were bought by collectors and rich older guys. They were sort of like the twin turbo Lingenfelter Corvettes of today but in the terms of real money they actually cost more in the 1960's dollars than a Lingenfelter Vette costs today. In the 60's I lived in Texas, just south of LA, and on the east coast and I NEVER saw a single one of the factory or high dollar tuner cars on the street. I saw plenty that were on the track but they never saw the street. You younger guys can read all you want to but I was actually there and very heavily into the racing scene and was at some track almost every weekend. Actually, on the east coast we ran at various tracks on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights and Sundays during the day. Throughout the 60's I never saw ANY stock vehicle run a 12 second et and I was at many different tracks across the US.

BAD2000TA

iTrader: (6)

Yep - totally agree. My uncle was very much into the street racing scene back in the day. Racing for the green. Ohio Street in Buffalo was the place. He had '68 Hemi Road Runner, '69 GTX, two '70 Superbirds, 340 Demon, etc. Fastest was the Superbird - it had headers, 4:30 gears, Six Pack intake. It ran a best of 12.74@114. Like it's been mentioned before, stock times for 99% of all musclecars of the period were mid-14's to mid 13's. Only a select few even had the potential to dip into the twelves. Hemi cars, LS6's, Stage 1 Buicks, 428 Cobra jets, Six-Pack cars, L88/ZL1 cars, etc. These are all rare rare cars. Most musclecars were the main packages. The Road Runners were 383's. Mustangs had 351's. Cuda's were 383 or 340's. Corvette had 327's or 350's. Even Vette's with 427's didn't smoke the competition. There were 4 different 427 engines offered in 1969! Only the 435 horse tri-power and L88 even had the chance to run the number.

Anyway, ultimately, if the argument is that the old musclecars are faster than the newer musclecars, the track is the place to "put-up" or "shut-up"!!

Uncle D

One of the fastest factory cars I know of is the 1964 Ford Thunderbolt. And YES you could take one to the track straight off the showroom floor and run high 11's.

1964 Ford Thunderbolt

Sprayed1998

iTrader: (10)

My dads 1970 442 ran 13.90's bone stock
It had a 455 with 365HP and 500tq