Conley's Performance: Hidden charges
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
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This is why I don't like speedshops in general. I've used everyone in HTown (except Conleys) and felt like I was ripped off everytime. Thats why I do 95% of the work myself now. The only thing I can't do is welding.
On the otherhand, these shops need to make a profit, and after doing a fair amount of the work myself, I realized that these guys work hard. They need to make their money somehow. They earn their paycheck which is more than I can say for myself.
This is not a cheap hobby, it is expensive. You got to pay to play (or do the work yourself).
On the otherhand, these shops need to make a profit, and after doing a fair amount of the work myself, I realized that these guys work hard. They need to make their money somehow. They earn their paycheck which is more than I can say for myself.
This is not a cheap hobby, it is expensive. You got to pay to play (or do the work yourself).
Originally Posted by Sprayed1998
I dunno about that. On parts the shop has to buy them from a wholesaler, and then mark them up. But with 1000's of shops and parts stores around they can't go marking things up however they want. They need to keep their prices competative with the market, so it's not like they are making big points on the parts alone. Sure it helps with warranty issues and a little extra dough but the real money should be made on labor and all the extra charges associated with the labor.
Nice to hear from someone like Blue's (nice sig by the way) who has first hand experience.
Some don't seem to comprehend what they read. In my post I stated shops SHOULD raise their prices and attempted to give some reasons. It seems pointless trying to educate some especially when they can't even make a post without a few f-bombs. It is clear some don't understand common business principles, business models, and automotive repair.
I think most would be amazed at all the costs associated with running a shop. Anyone who is interested I could show them some financials and explain all the expenses that you don't think of until you have OWNED a shop. I say owned because even some working in the business don't see all the costs involved with running a shop for the long term.
It also really disturbs me that the customer wouldn't simply talk to them about the issue even when they ask to talk about it. This issue should have been handled first between the customer and the shop. Some should be aware that you get good service by being a good customer.
Do yourself and the shop a favor by trying to order your parts from them and don't complain that Summit or Autozone is 25% cheaper. Also, be prepared to pre-pay for parts unless you have developed a relationship with the shop. The customer will come out much better in the long run. The shop will enjoy working for you and you may be surprised how well it will work for you. Let me give you an example.
Its friday afternoon and there are 2 cars in the shop that need to be worked on but only one is going to be ready for the weekend. One is a good customer and the other is one who always give them problems. Anyone want to guess which car is going to get finished?
Treat the shop like you want to be treated and not like some sweat shop in China.
Some don't seem to comprehend what they read. In my post I stated shops SHOULD raise their prices and attempted to give some reasons. It seems pointless trying to educate some especially when they can't even make a post without a few f-bombs. It is clear some don't understand common business principles, business models, and automotive repair.
I think most would be amazed at all the costs associated with running a shop. Anyone who is interested I could show them some financials and explain all the expenses that you don't think of until you have OWNED a shop. I say owned because even some working in the business don't see all the costs involved with running a shop for the long term.
It also really disturbs me that the customer wouldn't simply talk to them about the issue even when they ask to talk about it. This issue should have been handled first between the customer and the shop. Some should be aware that you get good service by being a good customer.
Do yourself and the shop a favor by trying to order your parts from them and don't complain that Summit or Autozone is 25% cheaper. Also, be prepared to pre-pay for parts unless you have developed a relationship with the shop. The customer will come out much better in the long run. The shop will enjoy working for you and you may be surprised how well it will work for you. Let me give you an example.
Its friday afternoon and there are 2 cars in the shop that need to be worked on but only one is going to be ready for the weekend. One is a good customer and the other is one who always give them problems. Anyone want to guess which car is going to get finished?
Treat the shop like you want to be treated and not like some sweat shop in China.
Tenured Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Houston/ Ponca City Okla.
To Mr. Lawrence Chris,
It is unfortunate that the referenced business could not be discussed face to face and that you felt that it must be aired like this.
1st of all … we are very sorry that you feel that you were treated unfairly, BUT are particularly distressed that you felt more comfortable venting your frustrations on the internet, and this forum, rather than making a simple phone call.
The big surprise was … that before you left the premises … “everyone” thought that you were another satisfied customer. (Particularly after the conversation you had with Mrs. Conley, requesting employment @ CPP.)
CPP has been in business for over 21 years. Not because we could compete with Auto-Zone, or every other expert, that has subsequently stated that they would do it cheaper. (NOTE: Will be interesting to see if they can stay in business for 21 years offering those prices.)
Everyone, everywhere will/can do the work cheaper … “after the fact”. Everyone now has references on the best deals in town:
The following is CPP’s reasoning and criteria for the final bill. Hope you find it informative.
1) Install/modify poly motor mounts:
· All-Data (a national parts and labor guide) recommends - THREE[3] hrs. for STOCK motor mount replacement.
1 CPP charged ONE[1] additional hour to cover the following additional tasks required to install the aftermarket poly-mounts:
· drilling out and remove EIGHT [8] rivets from the stock motor mounts,
1 melting the excess rubber out of the old motor mounts, clean & install new poly inserts. shop rate $80.00 x 3hr + 1hr = $320.00
2) Headers installation $400.00:
· CPP standard charge for header installation (whether Kooks, Pacesetter, or E-bay Chinese specials).
1 Some take 3 1/2 hour, some take 8 hours.
2 The headers were provided by customer. They were drilled improperly and WOULD NOT FIT.
· There was an additional charge ½ HR = $40.00 to remove and drill out the header mounting flanges so they could be bolted to heads.
1 NOTE: The headers were drilled incorrectly from the manufacturer. If CPP had them … CPP would have been accountable and would have performed the required fitting and mods at CPP’s expense.
2 Research of issues with the XS brand headers, keeps us from offering them to customers.
· Please note that the $40.00 - 1/2hr. noted on line 4 was described WRONG. It should have been defined as … “modify header flanges”.
3) Remove exhaust system:
Cat-back installation is a standard $200.00 charge, however since we removed your cat-back system and could not install the "Off-road" system you supplied. We charged you less than 1 hr. removal time.
4) See line 2.
5) Front O2 sensors: New ones supplied by customer – No charge.
6) Replace front and rear shocks:
All-data recommends - 3.2 hrs. for replacement of both front shocks, and
1.1 hrs for the replacement of both rear shocks. $80.00 x 4.3 hrs = $344.00
7) Install clutch/flywheel, and pilot bearing:
CPP standard rate to replace a clutch, flywheel, and pilot bearing is $400.00.
Bill was reduced 50% w/line item #10 because transmission was rebuilt.
8) Coolant system flush: ~ ½ hr ~ $45.00
9) Brake system flush: ~ ½ hr ~ $45.00
10) R&R Trans: (See line item 7.)
11) Clutch Drill mod:
· CPP researched the internet and found charges from several sources ranging from 1 to 6 hrs. CPP charged THREE[3] hrs.
· And everyone knows how hard it is to bleed these systems until they work properly; that is why GM sends the unit sealed with fluid.
12) Remove AIR system:
· CPP does the basic removal when instaling off-road headers on off-road vehicles.
· Customer requested removal of the “complete” system. CPP charged ONE[1] additional hour.
13) Put on computer and check codes (Requested by customer)
We are aware that Auto-Zone does this for free and some shops charge $99.00. CPP’s flat rate is $45.00.
CPP shop supplies are distributed at a rate of 5% of total labor (with a $50.00 Maximum), unless welding is performed.
As stated earlier … we sincerely wish that we were made aware of your dissatisfaction BEFORE you left. These concerns could have been addressed at that time.
HOWEVER … As far as a path forward …
Please contact Chris Conley “and” come by to sit down and discuss your dissatisfaction. We will make every “prudent” effort to try and resolve the issues.
If you cannot … Then it is out of our hands and …
It will give you, and every other "qualified" person, something to write or complain about for another few days.
To everyone else … we SINCERELY apologize for the bandwidth. It is unfortunate and disappointing.
AGAIN … Chris - We wish all of this could have been done in person, However, please call - we may be able to work something out.
Thanks and have a nice day,
Chris Conley
&
Jeff McBride
It is unfortunate that the referenced business could not be discussed face to face and that you felt that it must be aired like this.
1st of all … we are very sorry that you feel that you were treated unfairly, BUT are particularly distressed that you felt more comfortable venting your frustrations on the internet, and this forum, rather than making a simple phone call.
The big surprise was … that before you left the premises … “everyone” thought that you were another satisfied customer. (Particularly after the conversation you had with Mrs. Conley, requesting employment @ CPP.)
CPP has been in business for over 21 years. Not because we could compete with Auto-Zone, or every other expert, that has subsequently stated that they would do it cheaper. (NOTE: Will be interesting to see if they can stay in business for 21 years offering those prices.)
Everyone, everywhere will/can do the work cheaper … “after the fact”. Everyone now has references on the best deals in town:
The following is CPP’s reasoning and criteria for the final bill. Hope you find it informative.
1) Install/modify poly motor mounts:
· All-Data (a national parts and labor guide) recommends - THREE[3] hrs. for STOCK motor mount replacement.
1 CPP charged ONE[1] additional hour to cover the following additional tasks required to install the aftermarket poly-mounts:
· drilling out and remove EIGHT [8] rivets from the stock motor mounts,
1 melting the excess rubber out of the old motor mounts, clean & install new poly inserts. shop rate $80.00 x 3hr + 1hr = $320.00
2) Headers installation $400.00:
· CPP standard charge for header installation (whether Kooks, Pacesetter, or E-bay Chinese specials).
1 Some take 3 1/2 hour, some take 8 hours.
2 The headers were provided by customer. They were drilled improperly and WOULD NOT FIT.
· There was an additional charge ½ HR = $40.00 to remove and drill out the header mounting flanges so they could be bolted to heads.
1 NOTE: The headers were drilled incorrectly from the manufacturer. If CPP had them … CPP would have been accountable and would have performed the required fitting and mods at CPP’s expense.
2 Research of issues with the XS brand headers, keeps us from offering them to customers.
· Please note that the $40.00 - 1/2hr. noted on line 4 was described WRONG. It should have been defined as … “modify header flanges”.
3) Remove exhaust system:
Cat-back installation is a standard $200.00 charge, however since we removed your cat-back system and could not install the "Off-road" system you supplied. We charged you less than 1 hr. removal time.
4) See line 2.
5) Front O2 sensors: New ones supplied by customer – No charge.
6) Replace front and rear shocks:
All-data recommends - 3.2 hrs. for replacement of both front shocks, and
1.1 hrs for the replacement of both rear shocks. $80.00 x 4.3 hrs = $344.00
7) Install clutch/flywheel, and pilot bearing:
CPP standard rate to replace a clutch, flywheel, and pilot bearing is $400.00.
Bill was reduced 50% w/line item #10 because transmission was rebuilt.
8) Coolant system flush: ~ ½ hr ~ $45.00
9) Brake system flush: ~ ½ hr ~ $45.00
10) R&R Trans: (See line item 7.)
11) Clutch Drill mod:
· CPP researched the internet and found charges from several sources ranging from 1 to 6 hrs. CPP charged THREE[3] hrs.
· And everyone knows how hard it is to bleed these systems until they work properly; that is why GM sends the unit sealed with fluid.
12) Remove AIR system:
· CPP does the basic removal when instaling off-road headers on off-road vehicles.
· Customer requested removal of the “complete” system. CPP charged ONE[1] additional hour.
13) Put on computer and check codes (Requested by customer)
We are aware that Auto-Zone does this for free and some shops charge $99.00. CPP’s flat rate is $45.00.
CPP shop supplies are distributed at a rate of 5% of total labor (with a $50.00 Maximum), unless welding is performed.
As stated earlier … we sincerely wish that we were made aware of your dissatisfaction BEFORE you left. These concerns could have been addressed at that time.
HOWEVER … As far as a path forward …
Please contact Chris Conley “and” come by to sit down and discuss your dissatisfaction. We will make every “prudent” effort to try and resolve the issues.
If you cannot … Then it is out of our hands and …
It will give you, and every other "qualified" person, something to write or complain about for another few days.
To everyone else … we SINCERELY apologize for the bandwidth. It is unfortunate and disappointing.
AGAIN … Chris - We wish all of this could have been done in person, However, please call - we may be able to work something out.
Thanks and have a nice day,
Chris Conley
&
Jeff McBride
ACtually that looks right inline with our prices here at Thunder. As always there are 2 sides to the story which was the reason I wouldnt comment on the bill earlier.
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Well with prices like that. It is no wonder why people install their own parts or go to a private person to install them....
I think the guy got ripped. But that is just IMO
I think the guy got ripped. But that is just IMO
Last edited by SEB; Jun 8, 2007 at 03:38 PM.
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,097
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth / Crowley / Burleson, Texas
Well, when I had my LT's/Cat-back/Cat-Y/Tune/CAI(purchased from them). I supplied ALL parts except the CAI. Now, since we "negociated" upfront, the pricing was set. I paid for the work PRIOR to the car even going in. So, after they did something, they couldn't come back and charge me more.
For $1100 that was it. I think their "general labor" rate was $85/hour. But, they had a pricelist that they went buy. Very fair and up front.
Now where CPP might have gone wrong was, charging you more money on work that was performed without your concent.
I now go to a private installer that charges less, is more flexible and upfront, and won't blow smoke up your ***. But, I'm sure there are crooked private installers as well.
It's a learning process! They have managed to stay in business 21 years, they must be doing SOMETHING right!
For $1100 that was it. I think their "general labor" rate was $85/hour. But, they had a pricelist that they went buy. Very fair and up front.
Now where CPP might have gone wrong was, charging you more money on work that was performed without your concent.
I now go to a private installer that charges less, is more flexible and upfront, and won't blow smoke up your ***. But, I'm sure there are crooked private installers as well.
It's a learning process! They have managed to stay in business 21 years, they must be doing SOMETHING right!
Originally Posted by MADMAN
ACtually that looks right inline with our prices here at Thunder. As always there are 2 sides to the story which was the reason I wouldnt comment on the bill earlier.
If they charged you for things you weren't aware of, you should have brought it up at them time of picking up the car. You had a **** load of stuff done man, and $80/hr adds up quick.
I realize alldata is great for business, but come on...you already charged the guy to pull the exhaust...the transmission is out as well which he was charged for.
Since there is no alldata for the drill mod, why did you deteremine 3 hours was sufficient. I just did it in my garage on jackstand with hand tools...no exhaust, no trans, and bled it by hand in 1.5 hours. That one is inflated.
Same thing with the motor mounts....can all data really be accurate when you have already pulled the parts that obstruct your access to motormounts?
Since there is no alldata for the drill mod, why did you deteremine 3 hours was sufficient. I just did it in my garage on jackstand with hand tools...no exhaust, no trans, and bled it by hand in 1.5 hours. That one is inflated.
Same thing with the motor mounts....can all data really be accurate when you have already pulled the parts that obstruct your access to motormounts?
Originally Posted by SilverSierra
I realize alldata is great for business, but come on...you already charged the guy to pull the exhaust...the transmission is out as well which he was charged for.
Since there is no alldata for the drill mod, why did you deteremine 3 hours was sufficient. I just did it in my garage on jackstand with hand tools...no exhaust, no trans, and bled it by hand in 1.5 hours. That one is inflated.
Same thing with the motor mounts....can all data really be accurate when you have already pulled the parts that obstruct your access to motormounts?
Since there is no alldata for the drill mod, why did you deteremine 3 hours was sufficient. I just did it in my garage on jackstand with hand tools...no exhaust, no trans, and bled it by hand in 1.5 hours. That one is inflated.
Same thing with the motor mounts....can all data really be accurate when you have already pulled the parts that obstruct your access to motormounts?
they should have charged the drill mod by how much time it actually took them, rather than going by garage mechanics on the internet
Originally Posted by nickdotcom
he said he searched online and found it took 1-6 hours so i guess he picked a middle
they should have charged the drill mod by how much time it actually took them, rather than going by garage mechanics on the internet
they should have charged the drill mod by how much time it actually took them, rather than going by garage mechanics on the internet
Especially on the mount, everything was out of the way already, so it took 4 hours? They need some new techs. There is no doubt some charges that got thrown in there. To charge every task as if that were the only task you were going in to do, it just aint right.
Some of those look ok, but there are definitely some "while you are there" type things goin on.Just IMO.
