moregrip

iTrader: (8)

just got back from the welding store, the guy recommended Thermal Arc 185 ACDC as a more affordable option, similar to a Miller Dynasty but not quite as sophisticated. 2K includes everything except gloves and a hood, thoughts?

http://www.thermadyne.com/evolution/...=99&pdtnbr=567

Silver LT

It all depends on what you intend on welding. For carbon steel, and stainless steel, this should work fine. If you plan on welding aluminum, the 150 hz limit on the AC frequency may not be enough. You might want to look into a HTP Invertig 201, it has 200 amps and a AC frequency of 200 hz. The higher the frequency, the narrower the weld bead; very nice to have when welding outside corners. Inverter tigs are a wonderfully thing, up til about 15 years ago, tigs were 60 hz. With the newer models, square wave, pulsed tig, adjustable pre and post flow are available to the regular guy, plus they weigh under 100 pounds!

There are also a few chinese tigs on the market, some good, some well you know, advertised on Ebay. Of the ones I have seen, the one that appears to be of better quality is the ADC200, marketed by "jimkono". He also sells a unit that does not have adjustable frequency AC; he advertises in the SF area Craigslist. There is a Yahoo Group "Chinese_Tig_Welders" that is worth reading.

Whatever you buy, make sure to ask for a "gas lense" for the torch, it will save on gas and give better coverage on the weld.

You did not mention it, but if your plan on doing any amount of fabrication with stainless steel, or aluminum, a plasma torch would be a great investment. With a plasma torch, you can cut anything that conducts electricity

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

Thanks Silver LT
I have taken a few welding classes, SMAW and GTAW. For GTAW I've used three different machines, Lincoln 275, Miller 250, and Miller Dynasty 350.
I preferred the lincoln 275 (probably because it seemed less complicated and I didn't have to fight to use it over the Dynasty)
I did not know about the 200hz issue, good info
What if I considered the Miller Syncrowave 200, about the same money from what I can see?
I want to be able to weld carbon steel, stainless, and aluminum.

Never used a gas lense, just a #6 cup, plasma torch is next on the list!

Silver LT

Miller equipment is great, I have not had a single problem with my machines! IMHO, the Syncrowave 200 is a solid machine, the model has been around for a long time, and should last a long time. This type of welder uses a large transformer to make the low voltage/high amperage output. These weigh about 250 pounds and take 60 amp 240 volts. Some of the parameters are fixed from the factory (like post flow), with only a few adjustments available. The more expensive (and higher amperage) machines give the operator a few more options. AC output is 60 hz.

With that said, I would suggest looking into the inverter based tig machines. These machines make low voltage/high amperage output by using electronics and require about half of the amperage of that of a transformer based model. With no transformer, these weigh around 50 pounds. Most of the options, that are only available on the more expensive machines, come standard. An inverter tig would be my first choice should I ever upgrade.

Attached is a picture of a gas lense in use. The "lense" looks like a fine wire mesh. Also attached is a picture of a high frequency weld.

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

what would you recommend for primarily Automotive fabrication use, being able to weld steel, aluminum, and stainless

Silver LT

If it were not for mentioning aluminum, I would suggest MIG. For 98% of the fabrication I do, for myself and others, is MIG. MIG is much faster and far easier than TIG or ARC. Most of the time, I use my Miller 250 MIG.

One thing I have to state is that I look at equipment as a longer term investment. There is lots of equipment that has a low first cost, but will parts be available in 20 years?

Before I would buy any new inverter machine, I would at least give Jim at CLM Studios a call 510-235-7087 / 510-375-6500 cell. I am not an employee and have nothing to gain by suggesting calling him. His equipment looks real good and he has a great Ebay reputation. He regularly has ads in the San Francisco Craigslist.

Aside from this, if it were me, I would find a reputable manufacturer that I could get parts from in the future. My first choice is a Miller Dynasty 200DX, since it can be used with 120 volt and 240 volt service. After that, the HTP Invertig 201. The Thermal Arc 185 is interesting, but the AC frequency is a little low. The Sycrowave series is an option, but the 60 hz AC could be a problem. I do not have enough experience with Lincoln to comment on their machines.

Most of the equipment available is made in Europe or China, from what I know.

Sometimes Miller Sycrowave 180 are available on Ebay, or Craiglist, which might work for you.

Sorry that I can not give you a single welder to buy. Some of the options other welders have may not make a big difference overall. Buy good equipment and you will not regret it later.

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

I am now seriously considering a MIG and just farming out any aluminum welding I need until I can save for a 200amp Miller inverter TIG.

Looking at the Miller 252, about the same money as the ThermalArc 185 and the local rep is supposedly fantastic

thoughts?

Steve Bryant

iTrader: (1)

This is a very interesting thread for me as I am planning to take some classes in a couple of years when I retire on TIG and MIG. I used to be a diesel truck mechanic and I did brazing and stick welding on a pretty regular basis. We used an Ox Acetylene cutting torch for cutting. The world has changed a lot in the past 35 years since I did much of that.

My son, who is 28, sells and repairs agricultural equipment in Tennessee. He has a plasma cutter and I agree that there is no comparison on what a fine job it can do. He can also make a template if he needs to do multiple identical cutouts and the job is easy with no splatter and sharp edges to the cut. He has both a wire feed MIG and a stick welder, but rarely uses the stick welder. Although I would personally like to learn the skill of becoming a good TIG welder (and I plan to try) I agree with Silver LT that MIG and a plasma cutter are the real deal. On occasion when I need aluminum welded, I'll probably take it to someone else.

Thanks again guys for a good discussion.

Steve

Silver LT

The Miller 252 is an excellent choice! I have the older 250 mig, and have never had any problems with it. This quality of machine make welding very easy. I am glad to see the upgrades over mine: digital displays vs. *****; and actually having a place the hang the leads.

If you end up buying one, here are a few thoughts and accessories that will make welding easier (any large welding shop will carry these)

1. The mig wire will travel through the liner more consistantly, if the wire is clean and slightly lubed. I like either Weld-Aid Lube-Matic Wire Pads & Lubricant or Lenco LWLP-4 Wire Lube Pads. These are felt pads, with a retainer clip, which you manually oil.
2. The nozzle will need to be cleaned occasionally, "nozzle dip" will make it easier. I have gone back and forth between the gel type and the spray, would probably reach for the gel first.
3. For cleaning the weld splatter off of the nozzles, I have used the tool in the picture and have also bought reamers for each nozzle diameter. The tool is handy because it will clean various sizes of nozzles - the spring steel "fingers" do break off over time, so it is wise to have two. There is also a multi-tool call "Welpers", I have one but don't like it.
4. When you cut the mig wire, the wire needs to be sheared-off, rather than using conventional wire cutters. I use Channellock model 308.
5. Different wire sizes need different liners. I got tired of changing them and bought an extra gun on Ebay.
6. I try to keep at least one extra spool of each wire size in stock - hate to run out of wire in the middle of a job. Since Home Depot has some sizes in stock, it is less of a problem.
7. For shielding gas there are a few choices: tank size; gas type; and lease or own. My choice is the biggest bottle you can lift into the back of your truck, or is regularly in stock at your gas supplier. For gas, a mixture of 75% argon and 25% CO2 (trade name C25) works great for carbon steel. There is a tri-mix, which includes a little O2, called "Stargon"; used it a lot a first, but I really did not see the difference over C25, plus it costs much more. For stainless steel, there are special mixes, I cheat and use argon, since I have it for the Tig machine. As for lease vs own, I don't remember what the going rate is now, but the break even point for me was after about 3 - 4 years it was cheaper to "own" the tank. If I ever need some "special" gas, I would lease it for a month or so and turn it back in.

If I were ever to buy an additional welder, I think that a Millermatic Passport would be the one. Self-contained and will work off 120 or 240 volts. Sure beats the time I had to add a 240 volt circuit to a friend's panel, just to do 1/2 hour of welding.

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

I just want to say thanks for taking the time to respond in detail, it has helped me out tremendously

thank you

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

went back to my local welding supply store today. Talked about the Miller 252 and Marty(guy in the shop) was wondering if I really needed that much welder as its rated for 1/2" steel butt to butt single pass......he offered up the 212 as a alternate. thoughts?

jdustu

iTrader: (2)

It looks like you are getting a mig welder now, but I thought I'd throw this out there anyways; The Thermal-arc 185 is awesome with aluminum. I haven't spent a lot of time welding al with it, but what I did do I was impressed with. Our tech center has a contract with Thermal-arc, so we've got guys training and certifying on aluminum with these machines. That being said, I'm picking up a miller dynasty 200dx soon, because you can plug it into to 110/220/480, and I just like Miller stuff.

I also have the Miller DVI2, which is very similar to the 212(the dvi2 plugs into 110 or 220, but doesn't have quite the amps of the 212). The 212 should be more than enough for what you need.

-Josh

Silver LT

Knowing what I do now, having a dual voltage machine would be a great option. Unless you plan on doing a lot of fabricating side jobs, the 252 has more power than is required (is too much power a bad thing?). I used to have a welder like the 212 or the DVI2 and welded a great variety of things; from garden gates to tube steel columns. If you budget is $2,000, I would buy one of these machines and add a spool gun. With the spool gun, you can weld aluminum (14 gauge, a little over 1/16", and larger), not as pretty but does the job.

kp

iTrader: (34)

Interesting, I have a thermal arc 185 and weld quite a bit of aluminum and never found the 150hz a limiting factor for anything I do with it. Some criticize the wave balance for not having enough range but that suits me fine as well. This was my first inverter TIG and I couldnt be happier for the what it cost. It was under 1500 with a foot controller and decent torch/regulator a couple years ago. I see they have gone up some.

IMO its a great welder for the money, I have a dealer/service center a few miles away but after two years it hasnt needed anything. Once you use it a few times the controls are great, I used a dynasty on and off and its a nice welder as well. Only thing I like the Miller for is it can run on 120 which is nice if you want to use it somewhere other than home. But like cars, boats, shavers and Beer welding people are very brand loyal so its really hard to get an unbiased opinion on this stuff. Most of the time the weldor is more of a factor then the welder

G-Body

iTrader: (4)

Now theres a quote for the ages. That is so true about most tools. If you are truely good with the tools you can use crappy tools and have much better results than someone who has top of the line tools but doesn`t know how to use them. Same for racing, if you start out driving a horrible handling car that is barely controlable you will end up having a lot more skills than someone who started out by driving a exceptionally stable well handling car.