What mods for CA residents
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 159
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From: Pacifica, CA
What mods for CA residents Hey, I've read the FAQ and did a number of searches, but I'm having trouble coalescing the information, so hopefully you'll forgive a possible FAQ that's been answered already.
Short version: what mods can/should I consider given that I live in CA? I read the FAQ on favorite mods, but most seem to violate CA emissions. Is there *anything* I can do? And/or what can I do and reasonably "sneak by"?
Longer version: I have a '78 T/A that I'm dropping a 2001 LS1 into (so it at least has the LS6 intake already). According to all the info I've been able to gather, even though the body is a '78 I need to pass '01 emissions
.
Since it's an engine swap it'll need an official referee to inspect it and I'm assuming he's going to look pretty close. Would it make sense to start as stock as possible, get the referee to approve it, then sneak in some mods that are likely not going to be caught in later inspections? That seems like the best approach, but since everything is going to need replacing for the conversion, I'd hate to have to first buy and install a bunch of crap (e.g., crappy exhaust system) only to have to replace it immediately afterward.
Any advice?
Short version: what mods can/should I consider given that I live in CA? I read the FAQ on favorite mods, but most seem to violate CA emissions. Is there *anything* I can do? And/or what can I do and reasonably "sneak by"?
Longer version: I have a '78 T/A that I'm dropping a 2001 LS1 into (so it at least has the LS6 intake already). According to all the info I've been able to gather, even though the body is a '78 I need to pass '01 emissions
. Since it's an engine swap it'll need an official referee to inspect it and I'm assuming he's going to look pretty close. Would it make sense to start as stock as possible, get the referee to approve it, then sneak in some mods that are likely not going to be caught in later inspections? That seems like the best approach, but since everything is going to need replacing for the conversion, I'd hate to have to first buy and install a bunch of crap (e.g., crappy exhaust system) only to have to replace it immediately afterward.
Any advice?
your ride is gonna be sick as hell!!! i live in cali also and own a 2000 SS so i know your pain. pretty much just find stuff that has carb numbers on it, like the shorties i have in my garage have a carb stamp on them and i'm gonna get put a better cam in mine but not too big still need to pass the sniffer test. good luck dude!
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 159
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From: Pacifica, CA
Thanks! I can't wait for this thing to be ready! Talk about a stealth car - everyone's gonna assume I have the old '78 pontiac engine and figure I'm pokey. 
Do the shorties provide much benefit and which ones do you have?
How much "margin" is there on the stock LS1? i.e., how careful do I have to be to pass the sniffer?
Oh, and one thing I've been meaning to ask and keep forgetting - how good are the stock cats (2001 Ram Air T/A)? I had originally been planning on buying high-flow cats, but if the stock are good then I might just snag them from the donor car.
Do the shorties provide much benefit and which ones do you have?
How much "margin" is there on the stock LS1? i.e., how careful do I have to be to pass the sniffer?
Oh, and one thing I've been meaning to ask and keep forgetting - how good are the stock cats (2001 Ram Air T/A)? I had originally been planning on buying high-flow cats, but if the stock are good then I might just snag them from the donor car.
Last edited by nautiboy; Dec 29, 2005 at 09:30 AM.
my shorties are hooker and i've been told high flow cats are better than the stock cats. you can go with a 220/200 cam and it should give you some hp and still pass here in cali
Presuming the change of address mod is not on
the table...
Stock cats are best for emissions, if you need to
be stock-appearing then maybe something like the
Random Tech catted Y with higher flow cats and
big pipe will slide on by. You're unlikely to see much
improvement from shorties over the '01-up manifolds
(and said manifolds will probably make your inspector
relax some). I tested the cats on that RT setup and
they were about the same pressure drop as gutted
stockers. I don't think it's EO'd (not 100% sure) but
on a '78 conversion they'd look pretty much like stock
and sniff like it too.
Now, I see a few California boys seem to be running
around with long tube headers and they ain't talking
much about how they manage that (don't rat your
buddy) so maybe you can find a "full service shop",
throw them some of the greasier work and get a
hall pass out of the bargain.
Cam-wise, looks to me like if the LSA is more than
half the duration it's smoggable. The greater that
LSA/duration ratio, the better. Check out "stealth"
/ "sleeper" / "old man" cams, some of them can be
plenty stout (for a full-driving-envelope, not just
WOT street car) and pass.
the table...
Stock cats are best for emissions, if you need to
be stock-appearing then maybe something like the
Random Tech catted Y with higher flow cats and
big pipe will slide on by. You're unlikely to see much
improvement from shorties over the '01-up manifolds
(and said manifolds will probably make your inspector
relax some). I tested the cats on that RT setup and
they were about the same pressure drop as gutted
stockers. I don't think it's EO'd (not 100% sure) but
on a '78 conversion they'd look pretty much like stock
and sniff like it too.
Now, I see a few California boys seem to be running
around with long tube headers and they ain't talking
much about how they manage that (don't rat your
buddy) so maybe you can find a "full service shop",
throw them some of the greasier work and get a
hall pass out of the bargain.
Cam-wise, looks to me like if the LSA is more than
half the duration it's smoggable. The greater that
LSA/duration ratio, the better. Check out "stealth"
/ "sleeper" / "old man" cams, some of them can be
plenty stout (for a full-driving-envelope, not just
WOT street car) and pass.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 1
From: San Diego, CA
well lets see.....
you could do a small H/C package and get 400+rwhp
you could go FI and get 500+rwhp
or forged + n20 for 600+rwhp
ther's alot you can do.... just make a friend at a smog shop, or just ask around....
my 400rwhp 99 SS passed smog with ease.
good luck
you could do a small H/C package and get 400+rwhp
you could go FI and get 500+rwhp
or forged + n20 for 600+rwhp
ther's alot you can do.... just make a friend at a smog shop, or just ask around....
my 400rwhp 99 SS passed smog with ease.
good luck
Suspended Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
From: Just outside of Palm Springs Ca.
Naturally aspirated, you can expect a max of around 425 maybe more, depending on how resourceful you are. This would be a nice head like the AFR which is now CARB legal as I recall, a nice cam shaft in the 224-228 range on a 114lsa, good cats, shorties, good flowing exhaust (try for 3" duals with an X pipe, you might be able to get them on your car legally since it likely came with duals) TB porting, 85mm MAF, Tuning, underdrive pulley, and fuel system. Basically every little 5 RWHP mod you can do and you can get up there, or just hit it with a 100 shot and make more! We can do all this when you are ready, we have plenty of experience with the older cars, thats where we came from!
-Bryan
-Bryan
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: Pacifica, CA
Thanks for the good advice guys. A couple questions/comments.
race-prep - I had heard (both in this thread and elsewhere) that shorties don't provide much improvement over the stock '01 manifold. Is it really worth it? Or does it fall in the "every 5 HP you can get adds up" rule?
As for the RT catted Y - I was hoping to do full dual, since that's what's on it now. I'm pretty sure that's how it came orginally too, so maybe the inspector will let it go?
On the dual exhaust ... I had read that if possible I should have the cats after the X. I'm not sure if I could squeak that by on the "this is a conversion", but if I can ... that puts it further away, so lower heat, so less effective cats. Would I likely fail smog if I did that?
And now a really stupid question, because it's a little fuzzy in the FAQ's I've read - are the lid and CAI complementary or mutually exclusive? i.e., if I want CAI do I also need the lid, or do I choose "one or the other but not both"?
race-prep - I had heard (both in this thread and elsewhere) that shorties don't provide much improvement over the stock '01 manifold. Is it really worth it? Or does it fall in the "every 5 HP you can get adds up" rule?
As for the RT catted Y - I was hoping to do full dual, since that's what's on it now. I'm pretty sure that's how it came orginally too, so maybe the inspector will let it go?
On the dual exhaust ... I had read that if possible I should have the cats after the X. I'm not sure if I could squeak that by on the "this is a conversion", but if I can ... that puts it further away, so lower heat, so less effective cats. Would I likely fail smog if I did that?
And now a really stupid question, because it's a little fuzzy in the FAQ's I've read - are the lid and CAI complementary or mutually exclusive? i.e., if I want CAI do I also need the lid, or do I choose "one or the other but not both"?
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Until you go to the ref, I'd leave the stock exhaust manifolds and cats on. The stock manifolds on the 01's are almost as good as shorties anyways. The random tech y-pipe is not smog legal and won't pass the visual by a ref. There is quite a bit you can do and still sneak by smog once you pass the ref test however.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 159
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From: Pacifica, CA
The only problem with "staying" with the stock cats is that I'd have to buy them. And then replace them later. And a lot of the piping is going to have to be custom, so I'd hate to get it all set up for stock and then change it all when/if I can get headers on there. Ditto re: y-pipe since I'm planning full dual x-pipe. It's particularly painful because I'm not doing any of the work myself - gotta pay someone $100/hr to do it.
BTW, I'm not arguing with your advice - it may end up being the "best" choice. Just trying to figure out what the best choice is for this particular case.
BTW, I'm not arguing with your advice - it may end up being the "best" choice. Just trying to figure out what the best choice is for this particular case.
I hear ya. If you can get away with an aftermarket y-pipe then that's the best option. The ref's are pretty strict though, and usually won't pass you with aftermarket cats. If you have a hookup that's different. I'd just make sure you have someone that will let you slide 1st. If you do decide to use stock cats, you can buy them used from someone for like $20.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 159
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From: Pacifica, CA
You know what's truly sad? I could probably stay with my '78 pontiac 400 (not the Olds 403) and build it up and have an *easier* time with smog even though it would pollute probably at least 20 times as much as the LS1. Seems pretty ridiculous to me.
In fact, I'm now back on the fence. It was a really hard decision trying to decide whether to stick with the 400 and trick it out or switch to the LS1. I had finally convinced myself the LS1 would be better, but now a bunch of guys are telling me it would be better to stick with the '78.
I was so happy when I finally made my decision to go with the LS1 - I was really tired of getting stressed over that decision. And now I'm right back there again. And even worse I'm just about to put my money down on the LS1!
In fact, I'm now back on the fence. It was a really hard decision trying to decide whether to stick with the 400 and trick it out or switch to the LS1. I had finally convinced myself the LS1 would be better, but now a bunch of guys are telling me it would be better to stick with the '78.
I was so happy when I finally made my decision to go with the LS1 - I was really tired of getting stressed over that decision. And now I'm right back there again. And even worse I'm just about to put my money down on the LS1! 
don't be too shy on doing mods most smog techs don't know the difference in alot of things i pass a-ok with cnc'd ls6 heads a small cam 216/224@50 on a 115 lsa and run lt's with a catted y-pipe i even pass with an lsx intake 90/90 (remember to paint it black) you should be ok to do a few things
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 159
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From: Pacifica, CA
Here's a thought/question - is it going to be easier since I'm bringing the car in from out of state? What happens to people that have modified cars that bring them to CA? Does the govt make them remove their mods??
It won't be any easier. Once you bring your car to cali, you have to play by cali rules. You will be held to the great smog standards of the wonderful state of California.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 618
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From: San Diego
Best advice, already mentioned is this:
Get your engine in, you have to run ALL of the emmisions stuff for that year engine (Air, evap, all that stuff). Try to find someone who has a stock exhaust for that year engine laying around, borrow it. Go to the Ref with completely stock to the cats exhaust on it. Run the stock airbox to the ref also. If it won't fit under the hood, remove the hood. Once you get certified from the ref, put on whatever induction setup you really wanted to run and whatever exhaust you really wanted to run, give back the borrowed exhaust and airbox to whomever you borrowed it from.
Thats my best advice for going to the ref. What you can get away with smogging and what I'd try to get away with going to a ref are a bit different.
If I wanted to make smog legal horsepower, I'd go with a supercharger on a built motor. I would recommend staying smog legal, you can still make decent power, its a lot of hastle to run a non-smoggable setup.
Get your engine in, you have to run ALL of the emmisions stuff for that year engine (Air, evap, all that stuff). Try to find someone who has a stock exhaust for that year engine laying around, borrow it. Go to the Ref with completely stock to the cats exhaust on it. Run the stock airbox to the ref also. If it won't fit under the hood, remove the hood. Once you get certified from the ref, put on whatever induction setup you really wanted to run and whatever exhaust you really wanted to run, give back the borrowed exhaust and airbox to whomever you borrowed it from.
Thats my best advice for going to the ref. What you can get away with smogging and what I'd try to get away with going to a ref are a bit different.
If I wanted to make smog legal horsepower, I'd go with a supercharger on a built motor. I would recommend staying smog legal, you can still make decent power, its a lot of hastle to run a non-smoggable setup.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 159
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From: Pacifica, CA
OK, let's say I did go the route of getting it checked by the ref as close to stock as possible and then finish the work after that.
With the exhaust, what exactly would I need? (I haven't peeked under a 4th gen). The engine obviously has the exhaust manifolds on it. If I get the cat pipes (with O2 sensors, etc), can I just stop there? No y-pipe, mufflers, etc. Would I be able to "cram" the stock cat pipes into my custom setup without too much difficulty, assuming it doesn't need to be "pretty"/permanent? If I can do that, then it doesn't seem too bad since I can get the cat pipes for $25. Smog that, then get my headers, x-pipe, etc. put in.
I think the ref would be suspicious or at least annoyed (trying to hook the sniffer to the cat pipes ...). My argument could be something like "I'm planning a nice, stainless steel, custom piping cat-back system, but I can't afford that yet. But I want to get it smog'd now so that I can get it registered so that I can get it insured ..."
Yes/no?
With the exhaust, what exactly would I need? (I haven't peeked under a 4th gen). The engine obviously has the exhaust manifolds on it. If I get the cat pipes (with O2 sensors, etc), can I just stop there? No y-pipe, mufflers, etc. Would I be able to "cram" the stock cat pipes into my custom setup without too much difficulty, assuming it doesn't need to be "pretty"/permanent? If I can do that, then it doesn't seem too bad since I can get the cat pipes for $25. Smog that, then get my headers, x-pipe, etc. put in.
I think the ref would be suspicious or at least annoyed (trying to hook the sniffer to the cat pipes ...). My argument could be something like "I'm planning a nice, stainless steel, custom piping cat-back system, but I can't afford that yet. But I want to get it smog'd now so that I can get it registered so that I can get it insured ..."
Yes/no?
You can find a stock y-pipe and catback for very cheap anyway. TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
You probably don't have to run the full exhaust, you could probably get away with it. Best bet is to give them a call, they are usually pretty helpful. I've called em a couple times just to get some info. If you explain to then the project, they can tell you in what state they can certify the car. The number is in the book.
Originally Posted by Bombguy99z28
Best advice, already mentioned is this:
Get your engine in, you have to run ALL of the emmisions stuff for that year engine (Air, evap, all that stuff). Try to find someone who has a stock exhaust for that year engine laying around, borrow it. Go to the Ref with completely stock to the cats exhaust on it. Run the stock airbox to the ref also. If it won't fit under the hood, remove the hood. Once you get certified from the ref, put on whatever induction setup you really wanted to run and whatever exhaust you really wanted to run, give back the borrowed exhaust and airbox to whomever you borrowed it from.
Thats my best advice for going to the ref. What you can get away with smogging and what I'd try to get away with going to a ref are a bit different.
If I wanted to make smog legal horsepower, I'd go with a supercharger on a built motor. I would recommend staying smog legal, you can still make decent power, its a lot of hastle to run a non-smoggable setup.
Get your engine in, you have to run ALL of the emmisions stuff for that year engine (Air, evap, all that stuff). Try to find someone who has a stock exhaust for that year engine laying around, borrow it. Go to the Ref with completely stock to the cats exhaust on it. Run the stock airbox to the ref also. If it won't fit under the hood, remove the hood. Once you get certified from the ref, put on whatever induction setup you really wanted to run and whatever exhaust you really wanted to run, give back the borrowed exhaust and airbox to whomever you borrowed it from.
Thats my best advice for going to the ref. What you can get away with smogging and what I'd try to get away with going to a ref are a bit different.
If I wanted to make smog legal horsepower, I'd go with a supercharger on a built motor. I would recommend staying smog legal, you can still make decent power, its a lot of hastle to run a non-smoggable setup.