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A 10% premium for the SOM seems very reasonable to me. You can't touch an SOM WS6 with lower miles for that small a premium. So if that mint NBM 2002 sold for say $18K...a $20,000 price tag on an SOM 4K mileage version would be reasonable imo. Interesting that for 2002 SS M6 coupes...60% of them are black/red. Any other color is sort of scarce. White is actually slightly scarcer than SOM.
A 10% premium for the SOM seems very reasonable to me. You can't touch an SOM WS6 with lower miles for that small a premium. So if that mint NBM 2002 sold for say $18K...a $20,000 price tag on an SOM 4K mileage version would be reasonable imo.
Yeah, I guess for the folks who absolutely want that color, 10% more isn't out of line based on supply/demand. But there are a couple of SOM cars currently for sale in the classifieds with overstated premiums, one of them has been listed twice by the same owner in recent years and the current ad has been up for months. The SOM premium will only get you so far, underneath it's still the same car.
Personally, I like the color but not enough to pay several thousand more for it. So perhaps my opinion is clouded in that regard.
Yeah, I guess for the folks who absolutely want that color, 10% more isn't out of line based on supply/demand. But there are a couple of SOM cars currently for sale in the classifieds with overstated premiums, one of them has been listed twice by the same owner in recent years and the current ad has been up for months. The SOM premium will only get you so far, underneath it's still the same car.
Personally, I like the color but not enough to pay several thousand more for it. So perhaps my opinion is clouded in that regard.
I personally LOVE the color enough to put it in a separate category all it's own. There are quite a few 4th Gen. fanatics who feel the same way and will pay more than 10% premium for the SOM factory colored cars.
It is more of a love/hate color, and the people who both love it, and can afford it are willing to pay more than a 10% premium. I do know the WS6 buyers are more willing to pay an even higher premium for the color than the SS buyers.
I've been paying premiums for "color" since the mid-1990's for my 1960's muscle cars. Nice colors vs. drab browns/greens/dull yellows bring more bucks. In violet, panther pink, bright red, and other high impact colors typically fetched 10-15% premiums vs say a medium green metallic car. And since black was so scarce back then, that routinely fetched a 15-20% premium. I think as a rule only 1-3% of original production came black (1968-1970 muscle mopars)...which is so unlike today's black 2002 SS where it has the highest production by far of any SS, of any year....with maybe the exception of the red 2002 SS LE anniversary car....which is a different beast altogether.
What OKSS says seems true by my experiences. I see SOM WS6's typically bringing 15-25% premiums on fine examples. For Camaro SS the premium is probably 10-20% depending on the car. The more desirable, nicer, and lower mileage the car is, the more important the color premium. The premium does slowly erode with mileage and condition. By 125K-150K miles or more it's close about gone for an SS. The WS6 guys are true SOM fanatics....and rarely does that premium disappear no matter how high the miles. When these cars start getting repainted down the road, watch a lot more SOM cars show up that used to be some other color.
Last edited by Firebrian; Jul 25, 2017 at 02:55 PM.
I've been paying premiums for "color" since the mid-1990's for my 1960's muscle cars. Nice colors vs. drab browns/greens/dull yellows bring more bucks. In violet, panther pink, bright red, and other high impact colors typically fetched 10-15% premiums vs say a medium green metallic car.
Haha, most shades of green are actually favorites of mine, I would often choose them over many of those generally more desirable colors. To put this into 4th gen F-body perspective, Bright Green Metallic is one of my more preferred colors. But I still wouldn't pay thousands more for it vs. a silver or white (two of my other favorites) example of the same condition. I guess I tend to like colors that are often less desirable in the enthusiast market down the road. Silver/gray, most greens, and several shades of blue are often my favorites. Red is nice, probably a second tier favorite for me. Orange is great too, but I'd rather have Hugger Orange than SOM.
Originally Posted by Firebrian
When these cars start getting repainted down the road, watch a lot more SOM cars show up that used to be some other color.
A complete and proper color change is wildly expensive as compared to the typical value of these cars (especially ones that would need a re-paint in the first place.) My guess is that we won't see a ton of 4th gens restored in any color, much less proper color changes (so far, this has also been true for the 3rd gens.)
I personally LOVE the color enough to put it in a separate category all it's own. There are quite a few 4th Gen. fanatics who feel the same way and will pay more than 10% premium for the SOM factory colored cars.
It is more of a love/hate color, and the people who both love it, and can afford it are willing to pay more than a 10% premium. I do know the WS6 buyers are more willing to pay an even higher premium for the color than the SS buyers.
I agree and totally understand about colors and paying top dollar, or travelling long distances to get the right car. It may not make sense financially but sometimes you just don't want to settle. The economic sense and advice posted here is spot on but sometimes life goes in a different direction and living your own life is all that matters.. When I bought my T/A 'vert I had about one dozen dealerships (yes, in the Pontiac dealership days) closer to me than the outfit I bought from. I wasn't going to settle for anything but a red T/A with taupe top and I found it in Charlotte which is about 3.5 hours away from me. I didn't get a bargain either. Here in 2017 I am still ultra pleased that I did not settle for a different color combination. I still love it.
I asked him to come down and he said replacing the tires is the best he can do and it looks pretty in his garage.... He definitely thinks he has a super rare car. There is a dealer in FL that has a Tom Henry SOM for sale and he came down to 23,5 just talking through emails.
I asked him to come down and he said replacing the tires is the best he can do and it looks pretty in his garage.... He definitely thinks he has a super rare car. There is a dealer in FL that has a Tom Henry SOM for sale and he came down to 23,5 just talking through emails.
The SOM SS's are rare cars, there is no arguing that. The Artic White cars are more rare, but not as desirable.
That SOM Tom Henry was purchased at Barett Jackson for $19,500 (including the fees). While still a fair price at $23k, just know that there are better deals out there if you are willing to wait.
I asked him to come down and he said replacing the tires is the best he can do and it looks pretty in his garage...
Perhaps it's best if he keeps it in his garage then.
I think you'd be better off buying OKSS's car; for a little more money you'd be getting a much nicer car IMO. And the price difference might be even smaller than you expect due to tax rates. Not sure how things are handled in your state, but here in IL we don't pay the retail sales tax rate on a private party used car purchase, in fact the tax amount isn't even based on the purchase price for cars of this age (for private sales) - it's just a flat fee and very low for a 2002 model. Perhaps your state is similar.
Originally Posted by camarodude87
He definitely thinks he has a super rare car.
It has extremely limited Y2Y content, only the color makes it rare at all, but I wouldn't consider it "super rare" nor does it meet the highest level of collector standards. The mileage is low and condition is nice, but again it pales in comparison to something like OKSS's car.
I agree with RPM WS6. Let the smart aleck keep the car in HIS garage.
Seems to me dealer is a player of sorts who cycles personal cars into the dealership inventory. It's all about flipping for nice profits. It's not likely you're going to get a good deal in this situation. If they want to sell it to you, let them track you down at your price. It still seems wrong to be driving these cars down a rocky dirt road just to take some glossy photos for the inventory. I can't see RPM WS6 driving his garage queen down such a road for a photo op in nature. If you're buying a car from me, you can be sure I will tell you everything I know that's wrong with the car...whatever I've learned in those years you should know as well. Not a single ding, dent, or driving issue will go untold. I don't see this dealer doing that with you. And I've lost a number of car sales when being "too honest" with potential buyers. They'd rather buy a clunkier car from the next guy who says their car is mint....lol. Last thing I want a buyer to tell me after the sale is that I wasn't honest with them about my car or hid something from them. Unfortunately, I almost NEVER get that same accommodation from the other party when I'm buying...lol.
The seller would have a much rarer car if it were the SOM WS6 M6. Those move like hotcakes. The SOM SS's are not nearly as the same ferocity of "color madness." The very first SS I considered buying back in fall 2011 was a 2001 SOM A4 with 44K miles in upstate NY. Asking price was only $10,500. I knew it was a great deal. It would still be a good deal today. I just couldn't negotiate the 5 hour trip to go see it and then get it back. The owner really didn't assign any premium for the paint. In 2011 "color madness" was quite subdued, at least in SS's.
Last edited by Firebrian; Jul 26, 2017 at 04:55 PM.
There were actually 40 more 6 speed SOM WS6 than SS's made in 2002. I'm fairly certain the numbers were 303 for the WS6 and 263 for the SS. The SOM WS6 will sell faster and for a bit more money than a comparable condition and mileage SS. As previously stated, the WS6 guys are true SOM fanatics. A 20% premium for a very nice example is quite common.
It still seems wrong to be driving these cars down a rocky dirt road just to take some glossy photos for the inventory. I can't see RPM WS6 driving his garage queen down such a road for a photo op in nature.
No sir! Even at low speeds to avoid chips, that's just too much dirt. I like to keep my tires and wheel wells as spotless as possible.
Originally Posted by Firebrian
If you're buying a car from me, you can be sure I will tell you everything I know that's wrong with the car...whatever I've learned in those years you should know as well. Not a single ding, dent, or driving issue will go untold. I don't see this dealer doing that with you. And I've lost a number of car sales when being "too honest" with potential buyers. They'd rather buy a clunkier car from the next guy who says their car is mint....lol.
Yep, unfortunately, honesty tends to get one punished in this field, so everything is always "mint" until you go to see it for yourself and find a ton of obvious issues that the owner didn't bother to share. I always know that I'm going to be dealing with a good seller when their verbal or written description includes blemishes or issues that aren't visible in pictures, when the car generally seems a bit under-represented for what the images would suggest. But when you see generic fluff descriptions, like "car is MINT, nothing wrong, showroom perfect and none nicer!", that should be an automatic indication that the car is probably not as nice as you would hope for the mileage/price.
Why aren't we discussing you buying OKSS's car? It's not that much of a stretch over the car you've been pondering, but it's worth a lot more than that car.
Why aren't we discussing you buying OKSS's car? It's not that much of a stretch over the car you've been pondering, but it's worth a lot more than that car.
I have sent him a PM asking the location of the vehicle. Not sure if he is going to wiggle just 21k is a tad high for me. The car is worth it. I just can't be a buyer right now. I have a 69 camaro I am trying to sell. If its still for sale when I sell my car I will most def be a serious buyer.
As of now, I'm not pushing the car to sell or even really advertising it. I do mention it when talks like this come along just so people can get an idea of what some other options are. When I find a fair deal on a really nice 02 SOM WS6, I will purchase it, and if that happens while I still have this car, then I will be keeping both cars indefinitely.
At this point, there is VERY little wiggle room at $21k. I don't think there are many out there like this for the price.
As of now, I'm not pushing the car to sell or even really advertising it. I do mention it when talks like this come along just so people can get an idea of what some other options are. When I find a fair deal on a really nice 02 SOM WS6, I will purchase it, and if that happens while I still have this car, then I will be keeping both cars indefinitely.
At this point, there is VERY little wiggle room at $21k. I don't think there are many out there like this for the price.
srry I'm on my phone. Tech mobile isn't the best. Here are pics of the exhaust
Last edited by camarodude87; Jul 27, 2017 at 05:18 PM.
Reason: Duplicate
srry I'm on my phone. Tech mobile isn't the best. Here are pics of the exhaust
Well, those pictures certainly show a stock catback and what definitely appears to be a stock muffler. At some point though, the exhaust must've been dropped for some reason, and/or an insulator or hanger is broken, because the earlier pictures clearly indicated that the system was not sitting properly (I know there will always be some variance from car to car on the assembly line, but this was a pretty significant difference.)
It's possible that the exhaust might have been removed at some point for various service work, even warranty work of some sort (the factory cats were known to fail on the 2000-02 cars, GM extended the warranty for this, so that's one possible thing that might have been replaced which would have necessitated exhaust removal.)
It's also possible that the exhaust might have been removed by a previous owner to install an aftermarket system, then the factory system was reinstalled at a later date.
Or, it might just need a hanger or insulator replaced.
^^^ What eyes! Once again 'ol eagle eyes spots something. Amazing! My eyes went to the spider webs
I remember when I posted a car show pic and you noticed the aftermarket LS1 oil cap and wiper blades. Man!
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