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For starters it feels damn good to get back into the forum. I am looking to buy another SOM SS and sell the 69. So I found myself one. It has 21,000 miles on it. 6-speed, T-Top, Ebony interior. 100% stock. What would you value the car at. It seems to be priced OK but I want thoughts from you guys to see what you guys think.
Plus ill have to pay TN sales tax of 7% so its around 19,500
While apparently a nice and very desirable car $18,500 is pretty strong considering you can find similar mileage 2002 M6 SS's in black/red for $15K-$16K. Figure you're paying a 12-18% premium for the SOM depending on how you price a standard color car....which in my opinion is fine as long as you're comfortable with it. As a comparison $18,500 should be able to get you a black/red/silver/blue 2001/2002 WS6 M6 with 21K miles.
The car is coded Y2Y which indicates extra SLP content. Besides the SLP grille, it just might be Key Fobs. Tires look to be "Eagles" but probably not the original Goodyear Eagle F1's as with 21K miles they would be mostly worn out and needing replacement at 15 yrs old. For $18,500 I'd expect the car to need nothing. In other words the seller should ensure fresh coolant and fresh lubricants from front to back...everything....though ensure they add proper fluids for an Auburn/Coolant/Trans. They could screw the car up by putting in incorrect/upgraded fluids....especially if this one is on Dexcool and they put in regular green. On second thought, maybe deduct something on the price for any old fluids and you do it later to ensure it's done right.
The tires should be fairly fresh for the asking pric. I think the car is worth in the $16,500-$17,775 range...and $17,500 could be quite fair. The dealer thinks they have a very rare car.....yet there are plenty of low mileage examples of anything in the SS's that you would care to buy. Fwiw, I recall a 2002 A4 SOM vert with 4K miles from an Ohio dealer in 2013 that was advertised nationally for 6-9 months and got no bites in the $22K-$24K range. They finally lowered the price to $18,500 and it sold quick. I would consider that car more valuable than this M6.
I appreciate the response. The dealer said that the tires have about 7500 Miles left on them. I wish this car had CME but I love GMMG exhaust so that can be changed. Well its good to see that someone else thinks is "fair". Thanks for the response.
That sounds a bit high. I know the color is a factor, but it's still high. And the tires having about 7,500 miles left means they are mostly worn.
I would NOT consider an A4 car more valuable/desirable than an M6 Firebrian.
He's asking 18.5. Offer him 17, settle on 17.5? If you really love the car then just buy it. I probably slightly overpaid for mine, but an extra 500 or 600 hundred bucks??? MAYBE 1,000??? I didn't care, I had found what I wanted and I paid for it. Done deal.
That sounds a bit high. I know the color is a factor, but it's still high. And the tires having about 7,500 miles left means they are mostly worn.
I would NOT consider an A4 car more valuable/desirable than an M6 Firebrian.
....
That's why I stated "more valuable" as most "go fast" types want the M6's in a TTop/Hardtop. But, you stick a 2002 A4 SOM vert with 4K miles out in the market right now for $18,500 and it will be gone long before the 21K mile SOM M6 at the same price. Verts with that low a mileage and in SOM do not grow on trees. Very collectible imo. The right WS6 A4 verts do sell....and similarly the right SS A4 verts will sell. In fact I tried to buy that SOM vert but couldn't make the 600 mile trip to go out and see it before it sold.
If they state the tires have 7500 miles left in them, then they are either the originals (and should be replaced immediately) or the originals were roasted off the car fairly early in life (ie could be a hard 21K miles). Either way, you're the one who has to deal with the next set of tires. If those are the originals, ask the dealer if they routinely sell cars with 15 yr old tires on them. I have to chuckle that the dealer went out of their way to drive that car down a sand/gravel road way to get those pictures....lol. That had to be good for a few marks. What do they car....they're selling it.
The tires do appear to be original Goodyear Eagle F1 GS, and I would assume they are assembly line issued based on the current mileage and dealer statement of "7500 miles left". Those tires could be counted on for about ~30k miles of tread life depending on how they were driven.
This is not a 100% original vehicle. At quick glance, I noticed the windows are tinted and the exhaust is not hung properly (likely indicating a muffler swap, since the tips are correct but they are uneven and sitting much further out from the bumper than their original location.) Closer inspection revealed that the wiper blades appear to be assembly line original, which is a good sign that it was always a garage queen, but that the brake fluid appears to be very old, likely original, indicating that most fluids have probably been neglected unless there is documentation proving otherwise.
The price isn't outrageous considering it's from a dealer, but it's certainly not the best deal I've seen either. "Fair-ish" is probably about right in this case, though I would work to get it down a bit more due to the tires and likely original fluids. One of the better deals I've seen this year was a 2002 NBM SS t-top car with full SLP content, an M6, and under 5k miles. That car was only $18.9k and took some time to sell even at that price. SOM is more desirable than NBM, but that NBM car was a true collector piece with not a single item touched and condition that was worthy of presentation at the concourse level. While this SOM car is nice, it's not that nice IMO. I wouldn't be willing to pay $18.5 for this one, but something around $16.5-17.5 feels more proper, depending on an in-person inspection, if you're really in love with the car.
Originally Posted by AnotherWs6
I would NOT consider an A4 car more valuable/desirable than an M6 Firebrian.
I think you missed some important points in his comparison. The A4 example was a convertible with only 4k miles. While convertibles are not as popular with the 4th gen crowd, they do tend to carry greater value among the folks who *do* want them. And, perhaps more importantly, the difference between 4k miles and 21k miles is pretty significant in the collector world when speaking of cars that are just 15-20 years old. So the market for a 4k mile A4 'vert is going to be a bit different than a 21k mile M6 t-top car, and the 4k mile car will in fact be worth more and more desirable to some modern collectors at this point, A4 or not.
Good observations from RPM WS6. I though the exhaust looked a bit "long" but wasn't really sure enough to comment on it. Hopefully, that tinted glass is within local jurisdictional specs. Call your insurance company and see if they'll cover you at 70 mph on the highway on those 15 yr old tires. I had to make that decision 2 years ago and finally decided that driving around town at 40-50 mph wasn't all my car could be...lol. So I bit the bullet on a perfectly good looking 16yr old tires with 40% tread life, and not a crack to be seen inside or out....in place of a new set of BFG Comp 2 summer tires out the door at $555 w/balance/alignment. At least now I don't have bad thoughts when cruising at 70 mph+ and how to explain it to my insurance company if a tire ever blew out. Speaking of wiper blades....mine are still original and have only been cycled once in 5 years...just to prove they worked.
One thought is to walk into the dealership on July 31st with $16,500 or so in hand. If it doesn't work then....wait until September when the season is winding down.
This dealer apparently looks for low mileage LS1's. Here's a 1999 SS A4 with 20,535 miles that they were originally asking $23,500 for....now reduced to $17,995. This is a documented Lingenfelter modded 375 hp engine/trans that cost an extra $8K back in 2004. Over $42,000 into this car. It's gonna be that much harder to pry either car loose from them as they probably have connections. The odometer says 18,536....so I'm guessing they put down the wrong mileage at 20,535. If the car has been run 2,000 miles since they got it....oops. They also took this out to the dirt-gravel road for photos.
In the late summer of 2004 with 8,500 miles on the odometer, the Camaro received extensive drivetrain modifications from Lingenfelter Performance Engineering in Decatur, Indiana. I have tons of paperwork and pictures from LPE describing the entire process from the very first package quote to the final payment. More than $8,000 dollars spent, the car is making 375hp. Some of the modifications are as follows,
Engine removal, inspection and disassembly
Lingenfelter CNC porting and polished cylinder heads
LPE valve springs and titanium retainers
Stainless steel intake and exhaust valves
Three angle valve job, correct setting of spring tensioners
Custom designed LPE hydraulic roller camshaft
Professional insulation and tuning
Ported throttle body
Port matched intake manifold
K&N air filter
Stainless headers and so much more.
A few sold Firebirds went through them...including a "customized" 2002 SOM WS6 M6. The interior reminds me of "African Safari."
Good eye. Original wipers. I see now the the driver side exhaust tip hangs lower than the passenger side. Also as far as the brake fluid is that because the dark color of the container?
Edit. He said the exhaust is original. Doesn't know about the fluids "cant be that wore out, 21k miles"
Here are some pictures of the base factory system on '99-'02 SS models (it's exactly the same for '99-'02 WS6 cars):
As you can see, the tips are correct on your SOM car but they would have originally been much more even and tucked much further behind the bumper line like they are on the red and white cars above. I'm certain that the exhaust has been messed with on the SOM car, either the stock muffler cut out and replaced with something aftermarket, or the whole factory catback was removed and reinstalled (poorly) at some point. This isn't necessarily a big deal in and of itself, but it does mean that the car is not 100% stock/original as the dealer claims. What else are they not admitting to, or perhaps they just don't know?
Originally Posted by camarodude87
Also as far as the brake fluid is that because the dark color of the container?
Fresh brake fluid has no color really, it's basically clear. The reservoir itself has a slight yellowish tint so it's OK for it to be a bit dark, but the fluid inside seems dark enough to be original on this one.
Originally Posted by camarodude87
Doesn't know about the fluids "cant be that wore out, 21k miles"
Guess that's an indication of how well this dealer takes care of his own cars then. I sure hope the coolant isn't still original (sounds like it is though), it should have been changed at least 2-3 times by this point.
6 speed factory transmission fluid (Dex 3 conventional ATF) would be well sheared down by 21,000 miles. Figure that initial 7.4 cSt viscosity at 100 deg C is now down in the 4.5-5.0 range. Not exactly to Dex3 specs (6.8 or higher). I know the manual says it's never to be changed....but that's not ideal by any means. And whatever initial metal filings occurred from break-in, are still circulating around in that transmission. My car when I bought it in 2012 at 12K miles....had all original fluids other than the engine oil. My brake fluid is currently fresh and it has the same shadowing that the dealer's photos show. I think you might find someone changed at least some of the fluids along the way....but check them all for sure. This dealership specializes in low mileage 4th Gens....they know something about them. In searching the nation autotrader.com there are only 2 SOM cars under 30K miles....a 3K mile 2002 WS6 M6 at $29K....and a 2002 Z28 A4 with 27K miles at $12,500. No SS's...never mind an M6. Eliminate the SOM requirement and there are 125 vehicles under 30K miles....52 are M6's.
If the clutch fluid is a moderate gray to light black and showing floating deposits, that's a good sign it's never been changed....and a good way to foul up your clutch hydraulics and shorten hydraulic system life considerably. Murky orange-brown coolant will be a good sign it's never been changed. Don't let them start the car before you get there. Besides a coolant check, you want to check for cold piston slap as well as how that transmission sounds and feels cold (idling in neutral). Original tires still on at 21K miles and with decent tread left would be a good sign that the owner didn't spend much time on racing and burnouts. I'd be interested in knowing how/where the dealer picked up this car....auto auction? local trade-in? Regional auto-trader?
Feel free to toss the much lower KBB/NADA pricing at them. I get $11,694 KBB dealer retail pricing for a car in good condition (only grade they list and higher than private party pricing)...that's for an orange 2002 M6 with 18,500 miles and loaded. Dealers tend to buy via KBB/Nada pricing. I find it quite interesting that KBB pricing for this car is unchanged from 0 to 28,499 miles....same KBB pricing. Who knew that a 1,000 mile car was worth the same as a 28K mile version? 28,499 extra miles on the front end of the car's life is worthless per KBB.
My brake fluid is currently fresh and it has the same shadowing that the dealer's photos show.
Perhaps some staining/discoloration occurred to the reservoir due to the fluid previously being old? Here's a picture of that 4k mile NBM SS that I mentioned earlier, you can see how much cleaner the brake fluid appears compared to the SOM car. I've done several partial changes to mine over the years, never allowing it to get very old, and it looks exactly like this picture below even with my reservoir now being 19 years/17k miles old:
I will sell my 02 SOM SS with 4082 miles for $21K. It's in Northeast Oklahoma. It's original (yes, even tires) from February of 2002 except for the battery which is a NOS. Have a notebook full of documentation.
OKSS, that's a nice little package for an SOM SS M6. Thanks for sharing it.
Probably a better deal imo than a 21K mile $18,500 version. But, geared for someone who will put 100-250 miles per year on it to keep the mileage ultra low and in museum condition. When that dealer says there are likely none nicer out there than his....one can point to this one. And there are certainly more hidden away.
OKSS, that's a nice little package for an SOM SS M6. Thanks for sharing it.
Probably a better deal imo than a 21K mile $18,500 version. But, geared for someone who will put 100-250 miles per year on it to keep the mileage ultra low and in museum condition.
Super nice car for sure, but not any nicer than that concourse level 4k mile NBM SS from earlier this year (which was also an M6, t-tops, and had every SLP option other than the CME valance.) That one was listed by a dealer for $18.9k. Based on the other prices mentioned in this thread it seems like that NBM car was a killer deal, but it didn't sell very quickly. Perhaps some of the SOM fanatics will be willing to pay a $2k premium for the color, I know some folks are crazy for it.
Originally Posted by Firebrian
When that dealer says there are likely none nicer out there than his....one can point to this one. And there are certainly more hidden away.
That 21k mile car isn't even close to the "nicest" one out there, especially with that sloppy exhaust, that's just advertising BS that makes the dealer look ignorant IMO. But, lots of dealers are guilty of this so no shock there.
07-23-2017, 09:45 PM
Found a 02 SOM SS. Thoughts pls 
