RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Hard to estimate what might happen with the economy 20 years out; with two decades of possible inflation, who knows, you might be close. As for today though, I'll have to go ahead and disagree on the ~$40k mark for sure.

I think the bigger question is, how much demand is there among the high dollar 4th gen shoppers? Supply might be extremely low, but that won't matter unless some big spenders decide to target this vehicle. I wouldn't count on that happening, especially since the '98 models are seen by most in the enthusiast community as the 'bastard' year.

I suppose, as long as there are some folks in the 4th gen enthusiast community who share your feelings, then there is some hope of high value for a few of these. But if we're speaking personally, I don't share this mindset; factory rarity is a cool discussion point and all, but when it comes to actually owning a car, I don't really care either way. I'd prefer to have the options that I actually like the most, common or not, rather than focus on what's rare just for the sake of being rare. I guess there are folks on both sides of this coin though.

The same reason why folks started stashing them in the final years is the same reason why those years are more desirable today and will continue to be more sought after in the future. 2001-'02 is still seen as "the best of the best" regarding 4th gens, the final production years with the final revisions/updates/"improvements", I don't think that will change. Even today, even with the knowledge that '98s are the only LS1 year which don't need a roof replacement, folks still pass them by for more expensive '01-'02 cars as long as they can afford to. Color rarity aside, '98s are generally the least desirable within the 4th gen community, an that's going to be at least somewhat of a factor even when color rarity is applied IMO.

Views don't necessarily equal sales. I could post a bunch of ads that have tons of views due to been listed for ages with prices too high to sell. Sometimes folks just want to see why in the world someone would list a car for such an outrageous price - folks with no intent to actually buy (I'm certainly guilty of this as well), for others these ads can be like an online car show; they're looking at something unique just to look, doesn't mean they would actually want to buy it (I'm also guilty of that).

What was the asking price on this car? Any word on the actual sale price? I looked at the link and didn't see anything, is it in the video somewhere?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

But how much demand for a '90s American performance icon is there really? Cars since then have only gotten faster (and, to the vast majority, "better" - though this part is subjective), which is very different from what happened starting in the early '70s. At a certain price point, most enthusiasts would rather buy a new Camaro than one from 15-20 years ago. Supply/demand, and where the market has gone since these cars were new, doesn't support massive future value for these cars in general IMO.

3rd gens had a wider range of engines though. The later L98 cars are the most desirable, and I would suspect that there were fewer of those originally built than LS1 F-bodies.

Thing is, that's the exact same argument that folks make today as to why 6th gen (and even 5th gen) Camaros are "so much better" than a 4th gen. You can find conversations and statements like this all over this site and others. I'm one of the few who still prefers a 4th gen, but my opinion is vastly in the minority.

I still say that the dynamics are not present for these 4th gens to ever become the Hemi Cudas and LS6 Chevelles of the future, too much about every aspect of the situation is different.

Firebrian

The 4th gens won't ever be hemi cuda's, that's a given. The production number on those was small because they came towards the end of the hp era. And the hemi option was a huge extra chunk of change. They weren't widely considered desirable until about 10-15 years later. All the reasons they weren't desirable in the later 1970's is precisely why they were desirable by the 1980's. Hemi Cuda's got to $250K-$500K by 2007. We're not trying to compete against those. $50K will do.

Way too many 1999 and 2002 WS6 anniversary cars built and saved in pristine condition to ever make those long term winners. Just not gonna happen. The only one's with a chance will be heavily optioned 1 off cars or those with 1 off type characteristics. The anniv cars are basically all the same....not the recipe for long term gains.

First year models are often considered "inferior." The line can only get "better" with time....more options....more hp. I feel strongly that all the things that make the 2001/2002 WS6's 'best in breed' will make the 1998 cars the sleepers of the group. First year of model cars usually end up doing pretty good...despite improvements. Enough value buyers will eventually approach the 1998's because their numbers were small, and survival rates even smaller. Performance-wise, there's no real difference between 1998 and 2002.

Years from now, it will come down to survival rates and coolness. I think the SGM's are pretty cool...along with any other ultra low production WS6's....like BPM which is even rarer in a '98 WS6. And the supposed single 1999 Firehawk vert in MGBM. Some 1-off Firehawks are in this mix too....probably some SS's. What 1-off performance Camaro's and Challengers built in the last 10 yrs are 1-offs or unique colors, etc. Not many. And those are probably $50K+ cars. We're still only at $25K-$35K in a mint SGM/BPM WS6. I do agree with you that in performance, the difference between the 4th gens and what's come out in the past 10 yrs is generally not that huge. Most of the newer 400-475 hp cars are a lot heavier than the old 4th gen...and not as aerodynamic. Even at 25 yrs old on the 3rd/4th gen designs, they still look cool and fast. Supercharge them for another 200 hp and +$20K? Not my cup of tea.

You don't need a hemi cuda to have a valuable old muscle car today. I'm aware of any number of "common" 383 Roadrunner/SuperBees and 440 GTX's in rare color or option combo's that bring huge premiums, especially when lower mileage, original paint cars. Some of those common cars fetching $50K-$75K today. And they're restoring others...actually constantly increasing the available supply. Kids in their teens from 1998-2002 are now in their 30's. That's coming into the age where they could go out and comfortably buy one of these...or wait until their 40's. I didn't relive my "youth" in muscle cars until I was 38 and bought my first 1969 RR. I think plenty of these current 35 yr old are going to prefer a 4th gen over a 1969 roadrunner, or even over a 2009-2018 Camaro/Challenger. Some of them with big bucks wouldn't even blink about paying $50K for a unique and irreplaceable 1998 SGM WS6.

70T/A400

iTrader: (2)

I agree that for me the 1998 models are the year I target. I own a 1998 WS6 and have owned another in the past. I also own a 2002 WS6.

The '98 had the inferior valve covers with perimeter bolts, an inferior computer and the LS1 intake with EGR.

But it didn't have engine noise on a cold start, a roof panel that dripped and heavy QF6 wheels that are in no comparison to the '98-01 WS6 wheels.

I even dig owners that kept the single outlet exhaust as it was the first thing I replaced when I was young.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Overall, all else being equal, the desirability of those "special edition" models has kept their value higher on average than other examples so far - even examples which are more rare due to some odd color from the early model years that nobody wanted when they were new. I don't think that the value of these Anniversary cars will suddenly plummet below the value of a SGM '98 WS6 just because the car is SGM. We'll have to revisit this in 20 years and see where things have fallen. I would even go so far as to say that the SOM premium is somewhat driven by the fact they are '01-'02 cars (or, more accurately, that this premium would be negatively effected if the color had been '98-'99 only). But I definitely agree that none of the anniversary/rare color only cars will ever be a Hemi Cuda.

I absolutely agree on the '98s being a fine car, they are actually my personal favorite (after having owned every year but a 2001). But you're right about the "value buyers", those are mostly the folks who would buy an earlier model year. "Big" money isn't headed that way, those folks would mostly rather have a special edition car or a last model year. I wouldn't count on that changing. I've been part of the 4th gen community since the beginning of the LS1 era, and I can tell you first hand that there's a lot of myth/rumor/exaggeration regarding "issues" with '98s. It's mostly internet lore and half-truths that have been over-hyped, but the stigma is there for sure.

Those rare colored cars would have to become the target of big money shoppers before survival rates (supply) would really matter much. Sometimes, a car is rare because nobody wanted it, and sometimes that dynamic doesn't change. Someone would have to loose their mind at a B-J event over an ultra low mileage, low production color that was previously not desirable before lesser examples would get a big value bump. Maybe it will happen, maybe not.

I'll have to disagree here. Kids from that era grew up in a different world, many received hand-me-down Hondas and Toyotas from their families. The Civic was a popular car to modify for the youth of the early '00s. Many in this generation don't view this hobby the same as the older guys, don't have the same domestic loyalty and didn't grow up on American V8 performance cars. The "legend and lust" factor isn't as strong, and the cars which have been released since then are faster and loaded with tech/gadgets that many in the younger crowd desire. I spend a lot of time at local events, and I don't see much love for the 4th gens at all among this age group - mostly, they would rather have the latest performance offering (if they can afford it), or have become interested in swapping Gen III/IV SBCs into older vehicles with a pro-touring build. The biggest draw and largest market group for 4th gens is the budget minded enthusiast who still wants to go fast with a well-supported platform. There's only a small group of folks who like these cars enough to pay big money for the best and brightest of the breed - simply not enough folks to bank on any of these cars as a serious growth investment (at least not well above and beyond inflation) far into the future.

Bandits96ss

I think RPM did hit a point of interest that is important to note. The time period that the muscle car inflation happened was a time period in which there was very little availability if quality performance vehicles and a generation of people who were finally established and had money to spend on performance cars. You could spend 30k on a new 4th generation f body or spend that on an old muscle car with the same power and was an icon of your youth. Sure some chose to go with the new performance models but many chose the alternative and that demand drive prices through the roof. Now is a completely different story as there are plenty of high quality vehicles saturating the market and every year only gets better.

I know many of you are from different generations (i.e. no offense) but the 4th generation fbody, terminator coobras, c5 zo6 were a product from my youth and as much as I would say that a black ws6 is the envy of my childhood there is no way in he'll I would spend $40k on one knowing what I can get that is newer and better overall performance related in this day in age. It's a different market than back in the 90s and things are only constantly getting better. You may see fluctuations in pricing but I personally don't feel there will ever be a day that 4th gens reach above original sticker price except for muesum worthy cars (i.e. 1000k miles or less).

i look at myself as an avid enthusiest of 4th generation fbody cars and if I can't see myself paying that kind of m9ney for one then I am highly confident in saying the mast group of individuals will not. As much as I love SOM cars or 96 SS or Comp Orange cobras that would be the day I bought one over a ZL1 or 350 GT.

Bandits96ss

I am pretty much what you descrube in a nut shell and am prob one of the biggest enthusiast of this platform that I know of. Although I grew up around muscle cars and drag racing not Honda's and 350z I always wanted a terminator cobra or ws6. But similar to what you suggested it's a different market I'm not going to over pay for a car that I wanted in my youth when there are better platforms out there for resoable cost. Will I hopefully own a ws6 one day yes but not for the kind of money your talking about. In my generation culture it's all about performance for dollar why would I buy a 20.year old platform with worse performance when I can buy 5th generation camaros for under 18k. Maybe I'm wrong generalizing my rationale but I had an opportunity to buy a ws6 and chose a gto because for the money i was getting a he'll of a lot more car. Currently I have been even wondering if that was a smart move as 5th gen 1le are dropping in the low 20s and terminators into the mid teens. As better and better vehicles keeping coming out the prices of older platforms are only going to drop not increase as there might be the odd ball guy who wants to pay a bunch of money for a ws6 but the general population will not so the demand won't be there.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Some great points by Bandits96ss above.

I am not far removed from that age group either. I was in my early 20s when these cars were new, and was fortunate enough to be able to purchase two of them brand new. In fact, my first brand new car was a '99 Z28. During my high school days, Fox body Mustangs, 3rd gen F-bodies and some lower end/late era "muscle cars" were the popular items of the day, but imports were beginning to share the stage - especially at the "super car/dream car" level. TT Supra, RX7, 300ZX TT, 3000GT VR4, NSX - all stuff that many younger guys were dreaming about by the mid '90s, often giving them more attention than the small group of domestic "super cars" which, from 1987-'95, mostly consisted of C4 ZR1s, Vipers, and the Turbo Buick/TTA program on the early end.

But I am sort of an anomaly. During adolescence, I was raised mostly by my grandfather; he was an automotive hobbyist as well, but from a generation earlier than the fathers of most of my peers. I grew up with a mindset of "domestic or forget about it" - none of those "super" imports even registered on my radar as being anything other than competition, but such was not the case for lots of guys my age (and especially those who are 5-10 years younger). And of my peers who *did* buy 4th gen F-bodies new or nearly new such as myself, many have since moved on to newer and/or more expensive (e.g. Corvette) platforms, with no signs of them turning back in any large quantity to drop big (i.e. greater than original MSRP) money on the now "outdated but never a classic" 4th gens. And the age group just slightly younger than mine was mostly responsible for the entire "rice" culture/movement that took place in the early '00s. The majority of those guys won't be coveting 4th gen Trans Ams in the next 5-20 years as they approach mid/late middle age.

Most Millennials, especially, seem to be much more focused on, and drawn to, the latest tech/gadgets/engineering offered in newer performance models, rather than valuing or desiring the simplicity and rawness of the 4th gen at this point. Very few of these folks who can afford to drop $40-50k on a toy will be doing so on a 4th gen. That sort of money could get them into a whole host of newer/more advanced platforms that are better stock performers and seen as "better" overall cars by said group. On the whole (but obviously with a few exceptions), 4th gen F-body is more for the bargain shopper; the platform in general will never be an overall collector/investor goldmine like some of the late '60s/early '70s stuff (where even clones can bring big money when well restored).

Truth be told, I love 4th gen F-bodies just about as much as anyone could; I have a 20+ year history of fond memories, personal milestones and nostalgia for these cars, and I've owned at least one of them at nearly every moment since the late '90s, but even *I* wouldn't drop $40-50k on one of these cars currently when that same sort of money could get me an extremely nice to excellent '68-'72 BBC Chevelle or, for perhaps a bit less, an excellent C6 GS (which is the newest Corvette that interests me).

Firebrian

I think my words have been massaged to suggest all or most 4th gens will become $40K-$50K cars down the road. 99.9% of them probably won't. My ONLY input is that I think the super rare 1-offs or 2-offs in surviving cars will out class the entire field....even anniversary cars of which there are thousands still around and currently seem to mark the high point of market prices. One single mint SGM WS6 could easily fetch $40K+ any time in the next 10-20 yrs...it only takes 2 bidders/must haves at auction to make it so. I don't even know if one exists. If I was placing a car into my collection for long term potential it would not be CETA's or 1999 WS6 anniv cars. Just too many of those kept in pristine condition. I like the contrarian play...what people have neglected. WS6's or Firehawks in SGM, Purple, or Gulf Blue would be some of my choices.

And I'm looking at this only from a collector/appreciation stand point. It's the same way I analyzed 60's muscle cars back in 1993. It had nothing to do with what I grew up. It was only based on what's underrated in my opinion and why. I was never a Mopar fan growing up. In fact I wasn't even a muscle car fan....until 1991 when I decided to tinker in that market. But after analyzing the car market in 1992 it was clear to me that 1968-1971 Mopars seemed to represent the best value in the market at that time. Rather than spend $22K on a new 1993 Trans Am, I spent $3K on a very mechanically sound, rust free, original body panels, and fairly rare 1969 383 Roadrunner. Didn't make sense that performance Chevy's which were much more common brought a lot more money. Well, that was corrected from 1996-2007. Not surprisingly, by 2012, that '69 RR was no longer the best buy out in the market now costing $20K or so....it had turned to a mint, low miles 1993-2002 Firebird/Camaro. The tables were now turned.

Fwiw, the first all-Chevy car show I went to back in 2012, I ran into several young enthusiasts in their early 20's who owned 4th gens in rougher shape that they could afford to "upgrade" a bit. They had around $6K-$8K into them. I could easily see someone like them in another 10-20 yrs, if they've done very well financially, plunking down $50K for the world's best SGM WS6. If I had a $MILL to spare...that car would already be in my garage along with some other earlier muscle...and maybe that one-off 1999 Firehawk in Gulf Blue.

If one looks at collector cars over the past 50 yrs, it's not just performance driving the issue. There are many non-performance cars in major collections. The fact that an SGM WS6 is a performance car and a daily driver is a double plus. The 1987-1989 Buick/Pontiac Turbo car performance is now easily exceeded by today's monsters. And they were saved in pretty good numbers. Mint ones are up at the $40K-$50K level...if not more. Wouldn't be surprised either to see the world's best mint 1980's Fox Body mustang sell for $40K. It would have to have unusual options/colors too to make it sort of unique. Those 225 hp cars are still pretty available.

OKSS

The last few comments on this thread appear to be accurate. Millennials (there are some exceptions) will always be willing to pay more for a newer/cooler/tech heavy model than something that is cheaper that lacks technology. Even if the cheaper car is a faster or better car. Some of this is not being able to get loans on 15+ year old vehicles.

It won't really be a certain fact about the pricing/collectibility of the 4th gen models until around the year 2025 or so. There are very few 4th gens at all I see around the Tulsa, OK area and I see only 2 or 3 really nice examples at car shows every year. The numbers are diminishing but as of now at least in this part of the country, there is very little interest in the body style. There is always a possibility and it very well could be a strong possibility that colors like SGM that were deemed ugly in 2000 and sold very little could command a strong price 10 years down the road.

One thing that will always be true, is that there are people who are willing to pay over sticker price or book value for a chance to relive their teen years and to finally own the car they yearned for when they were 16, and yes that does include 4th gens. There may not be a ton of them, but they are out there.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree with you in principle, that some very special, super rare cars could easily pull way ahead of the typical pack leaders in value, but not when the only significant factor which makes them rare is being gold in color. Certain colors do tend to wax and wane with enthusiasts, especially the high impact stuff, but gold is pretty benign and not very inspirational on a Trans Am. Not every rare color brings high premiums on otherwise popular collector cars in later years, same was/is true for some of the '60s/'70s stuff (I can think of a few pretty rare colors offered on popular GM stuff of that era which isn't worth much of a premium today...such as Rosewood). I just don't believe that SGM cars (however few of them might be left in #1 or strong #2 condition) will ever be the undisputed price leader in this category in future years, especially because it's limited to the least desirable model year.

You are correct that it only takes two individuals to bid one up to the stratosphere, but such a sale might be nothing more than a fleeting anomaly (right place, right time) rather than a market trend. Next time around that same car might not bid even half that high. I think something like the CETA or 30th Ann. cars are a much better bet for long term higher and more consistent/stable value.

These guys likely had 4th gens because it's the best performance platform that their budget allowed (hence the fact they were not pristine show cars). I think it's more likely that they will want a new Corvette, or something like this, when they reach a point that they can drop $50k for a toy. Again, the mindset of the younger crowd is that "newer is better", and that's because we haven't seen a watershed moment of performance collapse such as what marked the era immediately after the first muscle car period. Cars have gotten faster, better, with more tech and gadgets that the younger guys love. Few of them would ever consider coming back to 4th gens for a price comparable to those "faster, better" brand new performance cars. Of course, if performance ever disappears from new cars again (such as what we saw by 1975), then all bets are off. Barring that, I don't think there is ever going to be a big money hunt for 4th gen F-bodies, regardless of color rarity.

The Turbo Buick cars are actually an interesting example for this conversation. The Turbo Regals (i.e. NOT actual Grand National models, but same LC2 engine) seem to bring a bit less money, all else being equal, even though they are inherently more rare due to the variety of colors offered (vs. just black). Perhaps there are a few standout examples which have broken that mold, but overall you wouldn't have lost any money by hanging on to a "boring/common" black GN vs a blue Turbo Regal.

As for the Fox bodies, the '93 Cobra will likely be the car to keep for value. All else being equal, some super rare '80s color on an LX 5.0 or GT model isn't going to outshine the desirability of a last year Fox Cobra.

Looking at cars of the original muscle era and beyond, collector dollars always seem to chase period "performance" vehicles. Most or all high end/high dollar (relative to the general value of comparably aged vehicles) collector cars of that period or newer are performance models (or, at least, considered/marketed as some sort of performance model in their day - whether or not their performance is still relevant today is another matter), or lower end variants which are related by platform and can become clones, etc.

If we're talking collector cars built prior to the original muscle car era, then I agree. Such a wide gap in value can exist in just a short (relative) period of time. For example, I don't believe anyone has paid ~$80k or more for a '70 Eldorado. I don't think even the nicest (stock) one in the world could sell for that much, though it would still be a very cool and interesting car to have in a collection in top condition. On the other hand, a '59 Eldorado is a totally different matter when it comes to value.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

This is what I've seen as well; handful of very nice ones locally, but no apparent uptrend in desirability towards them.

I agree, but I don't know that there are enough of these folks (and, of those, enough with super deep pockets) to cause a huge price spike on the rare-but-generally-undesirable colored examples. I would argue that a black 2002 WS6 could be as much or more desirable to the vast majority of them than a same-condition/mileage SGM '98 WS6.

Firebrian

You have to look at supply when you are evaluating demand. Black WS6's are just too common. There will probably be less people looking for them in 10 yrs than there are today. While that's also true for the '98 SGM WS6 it's not that much a factor when there might be less cars in existence than the 5-10 people who just have to have one. It doesn't matter for all the Vette's, current Camaro's, Mustangs and Challengers that follow. There will be a lot of them. There might only be 1-5 mint SGM's in existence....probably at most 1-2. I've already pointed out that I'd be one of the buyers of such a car, at levels ABOVE '02/'99 WS6 anniversary car pricing. I'm sure there are others around the world.

Is there such an offering for a '97-04 Vettes, or 2004-2006 GTO where they offered a production car in colors almost no one bought? In a google search I found: Aztec Gold is commonly known as the rarest C5 color. However in 1998 - 14 Navy Blue C5's were produced, 1 less then the 15 Aztec Golds in 1998. So I guess we could debate that too. But the overall production numbers of Vettes is huge vs WS6's. And the Vettes started out at nearly 2X the MSRP. They're still making Vettes too. So the SGM/BPM WS6's have several legs up.

Navy 1998s 14 Built - Myth or reality?

I spoke to my friend Sonny Kilgo about the infamous Navy 98s before he retired from the Corvette Assembly Plant in Bowling Green. Sonny extremely knowlegable on C5s had access to C5 files at the plant. Sonny said he never saw a Navy 98, Ive never seen one either, Have You?

Aztec Gold 98s (12 Coupes - 3 Convertibles)


The unofficial story is these cars were to be painted as a test to check out the paint as a possible color for 50th Anniversary Corvettes. The color was rejected, all 15 cars were driven as GM company cars and then sold to Chevy Corvette dealers. Kerbeck as the no. 1 Corvette Dealer in the nation was offered the first of the 3 Aztec Convertibles built. This car was Will Cookseys company car demonstrator and was sold to us from GM with only 5000 miles. This car has only been driven 12 miles since we aquired it from GM and is part of the Kerbeck Corvette Collection on display at our dealership.


In looking at SS's they offered some rarities in 1998 with SGM, Teal, and Cayenne Red (1). Those would be similar to the '98 SGM/BPM WS6's. In 2000 there's 3 SS's in SOM. Pretty neat, but I think having a large number of SOM's in 2001/2002 takes some of the luster away from a 2000 SOM. They couple of people who recognize the long term value of an SGM car with really low miles, probably have them already.

A good example of a color no one wanted in 1970/1971 was Mopar Panther Pink/Moulin Rouge....there were others too. Consequently, those cars bring huge premiums today even in a challenger V6 format...never mind a pink 340/383/440 cuda or pink challenger 340x6 AAR/TA.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I honestly don't believe that there are even 10 people in the world who would pay ~$50k for an SGM WS6, one which isn't special for any other reason than being SGM, today or in the near (5-10 years) future.

What do you mean by "above"? Would you legitimately pay ~$40k (or even original MSRP) for one today (say with under 5k miles)? If so, then I would officially declare you as a greater fan of these cars than I (haha), or you're just banking on a particular future for these examples of which I don't personally feel at all confident.

On a side note, I remember seeing a Fairway Green C5 many years ago, I think it was a '98? I've only ever seen that one, I think the color was '97-'98 or '98-'99 only. I don't care that it's rare, but I would be interested in owning one simply because I love the color. However, I would not pay a big premium over a more desirable '01+ C5 in a more common color that I also still liked (such as silver).

I agree, some of those rare and originally disliked "outrageous" colors are worth quite a premium now. On the other hand, check out something like Desert Sand or Black Cherry/Rosewood for the '70/'71 Chevelle. Not sure on exact production specs, but neither was a common color. Nobody is paying a big premium for those. SGM could end up the same.

OKSS

No color, no triple digit odometers, third sticker options or any of defining specifications or options on a particular car will be worth anything if the interest in the 4th gen. body style doesn't pick up.

Bandits96ss

Comparing WS6 to base model c5 and mustang is the wrong correlation as although they are more comparable in price the relationship is not the same. It's either comparing trans am and firebird base models to c5s or comparing c5 zo6 to ws6 as they are the most desirable and performance oriented trim package of this era for each model type. Same with mustangs and cobras big difference. In the grand scheme of things if you were to ask the 2 most likely cars for value retention it would be these 2 as they are by far the most coveted and popular domestic products of that era. If you watch the markets on them although they have drifted down monetarily a little the things have cult like followings and rarely sit for sale long. Terminators are one of the few cars that I will disagree break this mold as they are all ready getting near msrp for some better examples in today's market.

As for the supply and demand model it's a balance. While I will agree low supply has influence I think high demand is even more important. In the GTO world BOM and SRM were not the lowest production quantity with over 1000 units a piece although they were only a single model year run and gtos were only a 3 year run....but if you watch they market they move a he'll of a lot quicker at generally better prices than say Barbados or Cosmo or Midnight Blue. Same can be said about torch red or redfire cobras but I will agree comp orange does seem to be the epitamy but there were still something like 200 units made it's not like it's a 1 of 8 car. I guess what I'm getting at is of the demand is more because the color is more popular the market will reflect that. Premiums only exist on cars that had big followings such as SOM. You will get the occasional guy like that dude on here that has like 10.camaros that is collecting more on color rarity but for the kind of cash were talking I don't see that happening. If I'm spending my hard earned money on a ws6 your dam straight it will be a black on black I could care less how many were made there is a reason it had the highest production numbers.

Firebrian

And there was a reason very few people bought black (or pink) muscle cars back in 1967-1972. They just weren't popular. Flip forward to today where black is probably the most desirable of the "regular" 1960 to 1970's muscle car colors. Things change.

With production numbers in the hundreds or 1,000 for a particular color Vette or GT0? Forget it. That's just too many available. This is only going to work for cars with at most a few dozen made in one color - with all years combined. 1999 WS6 anniversary cars have already reached MSRP at some major car auctions. I recall one vert going for over $40,000 in the last couple of years. There will always be a following for those in the $20K-$40K range.

Would I spend $40K on an SGM today? Nope. I don't make it a habit of paying tomorrow's prices today. But, if I were in the market and had $100K to spend on 1993-2004 muscle cars, I'd happily spend $25K for a strong 5K mile example...which likely doesn't even exist. Even the person that ordered one new wouldn't have had any idea how many of them were made until quite some time later. If only 5-10 people would consider a mint SGM that works...there are probably only a couple cars for them to fight over. Once spoken for....you're out of luck. You can always buy an SOM WS6 though. I have no doubts that a 5K mile SGM coming to market would get a lot of attention...and go for more money than a comparable black, or even SOM example.

Hundreds of people bought WS6 SOM's in 2001/2002 because the WS6 line was ending and improvements were made on the engine. Had they offered SOM in 1998, it probably would have been a semi-flop. And had they offered SGM for the first time in 2001/2002 it likely would have been a whole lot more popular than it was in 1998. Think about it. SOM in 2001/2002 and SGM in 1998 were basically flops. Few people ordered either one. I don't know if GM required premiums to buy them...that can make a huge difference. Today SOM is revered. Things do and can change.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

It will be hard to put this to the test if such an example never emerges. It's all just hypothetical until such a time. Personally, I don't believe I'd ever be willing to purchase an SGM F-body at anything other than a steal. I'd honestly pay more for a black one, and black isn't even close to my favorite color.

I agree, in fact I also mentioned this earlier in the conversation. Part of the SOM draw (and premium) is due to it being offered on the final update/final model year(s), and then also being rare (and the fact that Orange later became a bit more popular). The '98-only factor (i.e. that '98 stigma I mentioned earlier) for SGM is part of what limits any boost for its rarity. It takes more than just a rare and originally undesirable color to take top honors for value in later years, though it can certainly be one factor in the equation.

I do not recall any premium pricing for any color offered during the LS1 years. I looked at no less than two SOM cars (a Z28 and a Formula) on dealer lots back in '02, and I don't remember anything on the window sticker about a cost item for color.

OKSS

Fairly certain there was no premium color options other than a repaint by GMMG or something.

I don't even remember seeing any color named on the window stickers and I looked at quite a few on the lots.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I really think demand is the more important factor here. Some items in very low supply aren't worth a big premium. Demand must first exist for low supply to become a heavy factor in any consistent and significant price premium, similar to OKSS's point above. Otherwise, the only way you ever end up with a remarkably high price is that two-bidder scenario discussed above. But that's fleeting and might never be duplicated. Not something to count on IMO, but of course anything is possible.

Color was definitely listed (top left hand corner of window sticker), but I recall no premium pricing for any colors of this platform and era.