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I'm back again. I have another car in my sights. it is a 2001 Camaro Z28 SS in beige with ebony leather. T top car. He says it's a true SS car, has a clean and clear title, and everything is in good, working order with no problems.
Here is the sellers description.
2001 Chevy Camaro SS Just built the top end of the engine in December. Just had it dyno tuned by CAM. Runs great! Ported 243 ls6 heads LS6 Intake. Performance Throttle body Ms3 Texas speed cam. LS7 lifters 660" valve springs New injectors Hardened pushrods MSD coils LT headers 3in Magnaflow exhaust with Flowmaster merger New gaskets and misc parts during build. Lowering springs, shocks and LCA relocation brackets 18x10 front and 18x12 rear wheels. Much more. This is a T-top car. They don't leak. Windows are tinted 20% all around. Alpine sound system with amp, compacitor, and kicker bass speaker. Pictures were taken right after it rained.
From the pictures, I can tell that the leather shift **** looks rough and the driver seat is torn but other than that, it looks pretty good. Paint looks good. 180k miles on it. Per seller, the dash has a "small crack" and the sail panel is bubbling "a little". He says he did the motor work himself 2000 miles ago, in December. The 10.5 inch wide rear wheels have spacers to accommodate the extra width. If it counts for anything, he said, "I've had 4 of these things and I know what I am talking about". He listed it for 8,500 and told me he had been offered 7k and turned it down. A couple of days later he said "Just to let you know, I've been offered 7.5k and turned it down". The seller said he told the potential buyer 8k and the buyer is going to check his money and get back to him today. The seller says he has the dyno numbers but no dyno sheet. He said it has about 420 HP to the wheels. Do you guys think the 420 HP figure is realistic, based on the mods he said he did?
So what do you guys think this car is worth? Thanks for your help.
400-420 whp is possible with those mods on a M6. I wouldnt pay over 7k with that many miles unless you know the T56 was rebuilt properly and engine was strong.
MS3 cam and ported LS6 cylinder heads with the other mod's and making 420 whp is weak in my opinion. The MS3 is a stupid big cam for an LS1 by Texas Speed Magic Stick 3 238/242 .600"/.600" Camshaft. All of the MS3 cammed cars I've seen didn't drive that well. Lots stumble, surge, buck and stall. Mostly due to poor drive ability tuning.
You definitely want to drive the car before buying to see what your getting into drive ability wise.
My 99 TA did 418 whp with a mere 224/224 .581/.581 cam, a set of TEA S2 ported 5.3 which aren't as good as a well ported LS6 head same bolt on's and a mail order tune.
Of course if tuned by CAM means Carolina Auto Masters, the car may not be tuned to its full potential. The car would definitely benefit with a Fast 90/92mm intake & TB and few other bolt on's and a good retune with the new intake. Likely pick up 20 to 30 whp.
The car looks good. The small crack in the driver's side corner of the dash is barely noticeable. The SLp or Hurst shift **** is worn out a new one is like $70 which is pretty minor. Getting the driver seat recovered or replaced may be annoying. A set of seat in good condition probably $300 to $500. I scored a spare seat cover and the local auto upholstery upholstery used it to repair my 99 TA's driver seat for $65. It was just like the SS seat.
At 180,000 miles and almost 20 years of age there will be maintenance and some repairs. If not now soon. If the rear end is the original it will develop a pinion seal leak. It may whine. Start budgeting for repair say $750 or so.
I would ask about the clutch. Has it been replaced? When? Is it the stock clutch? If stock the car will likely need a clutch and pilot bearing soon. It's no big deal just part of owning an older manual transmission car
The car appears to be a nice looking neighborhood. My experience is the better the neighborhood the more affluent the car owner. The more affluent the owner usually the better the maintenance is taken care of regularly. Likewise for repairs.
I think the car is worth $7,500 to $8,000 if everything checks out and the has received regular maintenance. In other words ask to see ALL maintenance records.
If you like the car buy it.
Please understand this car has 180,000 miles and will never appreciate in value to any degree. No collector will want it. The car will have little resale value. This car has no investment potential. This can be a fun car to enjoy and drive and those are the best kind in my opinion.
I'm a 400,000 mile 91 RS Camaro, 247,000 mile 02 Z28 & 168,000 mile 99 TA owner
I think the car looks alright for 180k. I agree with the other poster though, $7,000 is about the max I would go with that mileage. If you decide to go through with it I would be extra cautious and make sure the engine/trans/clutch all feel strong. With that said, I personally think you could minimize some risk if you buy a stock or close to stock car and do modifications on your own.
Yikes, that's a lot of miles on a bunch of potentially stock supporting parts (rear, clutch, transmission, etc.) which are now being put under a great deal more stress with the power increase. Unless those items have been replaced/upgraded, I'd expect some issues in the very near future. As mentioned above, at 180k and 18 years the car is going to need some general repairs unless all typical wear items were gone through recently.
I'd would honestly look at this car as somewhat of a project, meaning that I'd keep plenty of cash in reserve to address common wear items or areas which haven't been upgraded to handle the power. And, as also mentioned above, you'll want to spend some time driving it around to look for issues with the tune if you're planning for this to be a street car; driveability isn't always the priority with many tuners, so it might take some time and money to sort out potential lingering issues in this regard. Driveabiltiy is highly subjective, so the current owner might be willing to live with things that you can't tolerate.
On a side note, in your other thread you had mentioned wanting a pristine example to be a future heirloom, etc. This is certainly not the type of car I would suggest for such a purpose. This one might make a fun driver/project, but it's not the sort of car you'd want to put away or use in any kind of collector capacity. But perhaps your purpose/goal has shifted, in which case this could be a non-issue.
As for value, it's hard to say with a car like this. Lots of things unknown (maintenance and such), so you may have to make a gut decision during inspection if no paperwork is present. Value could probably range quite a bit depending on how well it checks out in person and the documentation provided, but I certainly wouldn't rush into any snap decision based on the "possible" offer of some other buyer. I don't see this car as a gem or a steal, so if it gets away before you have time to make a proper inspection and decision then it's not the end of the world IMO.
400-420 whp is possible with those mods on a M6. I wouldnt pay over 7k with that many miles unless you know the T56 was rebuilt properly and engine was strong.
That's exactly the problem. He doesn't have receipts for any of the parts and I"m not sure I would be able to tell a good transmission from a transmission going bad, minus grinding, popping out of gear, etc. I'm leaning towards passing on this one, actually. He keeps telling me that he has someone coming to pay him like 7-8k for the vehicle so I should do something today. You know, just trying to make it like it is urgent and i need to get the car while I can. I don't like that very much. He also messages me regularly saying "have you decided yet" or "do you know how much your willing to offer". Daily, i would say.
MS3 cam and ported LS6 cylinder heads with the other mod's and making 420 whp is weak in my opinion. The MS3 is a stupid big cam for an LS1 by Texas Speed Magic Stick 3 238/242 .600"/.600" Camshaft. All of the MS3 cammed cars I've seen didn't drive that well. Lots stumble, surge, buck and stall. Mostly due to poor drive ability tuning.
You definitely want to drive the car before buying to see what your getting into drive ability wise.
My 99 TA did 418 whp with a mere 224/224 .581/.581 cam, a set of TEA S2 ported 5.3 which aren't as good as a well ported LS6 head same bolt on's and a mail order tune.
Of course if tuned by CAM means Carolina Auto Masters, the car may not be tuned to its full potential. The car would definitely benefit with a Fast 90/92mm intake & TB and few other bolt on's and a good retune with the new intake. Likely pick up 20 to 30 whp.
The car looks good. The small crack in the driver's side corner of the dash is barely noticeable. The SLp or Hurst shift **** is worn out a new one is like $70 which is pretty minor. Getting the driver seat recovered or replaced may be annoying. A set of seat in good condition probably $300 to $500. I scored a spare seat cover and the local auto upholstery upholstery used it to repair my 99 TA's driver seat for $65. It was just like the SS seat.
At 180,000 miles and almost 20 years of age there will be maintenance and some repairs. If not now soon. If the rear end is the original it will develop a pinion seal leak. It may whine. Start budgeting for repair say $750 or so.
I would ask about the clutch. Has it been replaced? When? Is it the stock clutch? If stock the car will likely need a clutch and pilot bearing soon. It's no big deal just part of owning an older manual transmission car
The car appears to be a nice looking neighborhood. My experience is the better the neighborhood the more affluent the car owner. The more affluent the owner usually the better the maintenance is taken care of regularly. Likewise for repairs.
I think the car is worth $7,500 to $8,000 if everything checks out and the has received regular maintenance. In other words ask to see ALL maintenance records.
If you like the car buy it.
Please understand this car has 180,000 miles and will never appreciate in value to any degree. No collector will want it. The car will have little resale value. This car has no investment potential. This can be a fun car to enjoy and drive and those are the best kind in my opinion.
I'm a 400,000 mile 91 RS Camaro, 247,000 mile 02 Z28 & 168,000 mile 99 TA owner
I agree. It seems like it would be up to whether or not i really want the car. Honestly, I'm not really sure. I think I'm going to wait it out. If the seller had receipts of the motor work or a shop had done it, I would have more confidence in it. Also, he has a bit of an attitude towards me when we communicate, which is really do not appreciate.
By the way, those shifter ***** are not made anymore. Hawks Motorsports had some for like 70-80 a ocuple months ago bu they sold out and now they are going for the same price used, with wear on them. Sometimes you can get lucky and find one on ebay. If you plan to keep a 4th gen, id definitely keep an eye out on a good deal for a spare, if you can. I got lucky and found a leather **** with the "H" on it for like 80 dollars, which I was thrilled about, since hawks sold out of their ***** with "SLP" on them. They're beginning to become rare parts, like the original dash, sun visors, etc.
I think the car looks alright for 180k. I agree with the other poster though, $7,000 is about the max I would go with that mileage. If you decide to go through with it I would be extra cautious and make sure the engine/trans/clutch all feel strong. With that said, I personally think you could minimize some risk if you buy a stock or close to stock car and do modifications on your own.
I completely agree. That is what I am going to do. I have a 130k mile 02 SOM SS M6 that I am going to mod or drop an LS3 in then find a low mile 4th gen and do light mods to it and keep it as a collector car, so to speak. Maybe H/C/I and exhaust. I believe that would be the best way to go. I just kept thinking about how there arent many SOM cars out there and I should fix it up and keep it as a "semi collector" but as you guys said, it has too many miles at 130k. I believe this is the route I am going to take, though.
Yikes, that's a lot of miles on a bunch of potentially stock supporting parts (rear, clutch, transmission, etc.) which are now being put under a great deal more stress with the power increase. Unless those items have been replaced/upgraded, I'd expect some issues in the very near future. As mentioned above, at 180k and 18 years the car is going to need some general repairs unless all typical wear items were gone through recently.
I'd would honestly look at this car as somewhat of a project, meaning that I'd keep plenty of cash in reserve to address common wear items or areas which haven't been upgraded to handle the power. And, as also mentioned above, you'll want to spend some time driving it around to look for issues with the tune if you're planning for this to be a street car; driveability isn't always the priority with many tuners, so it might take some time and money to sort out potential lingering issues in this regard. Driveabiltiy is highly subjective, so the current owner might be willing to live with things that you can't tolerate.
On a side note, in your other thread you had mentioned wanting a pristine example to be a future heirloom, etc. This is certainly not the type of car I would suggest for such a purpose. This one might make a fun driver/project, but it's not the sort of car you'd want to put away or use in any kind of collector capacity. But perhaps your purpose/goal has shifted, in which case this could be a non-issue.
As for value, it's hard to say with a car like this. Lots of things unknown (maintenance and such), so you may have to make a gut decision during inspection if no paperwork is present. Value could probably range quite a bit depending on how well it checks out in person and the documentation provided, but I certainly wouldn't rush into any snap decision based on the "possible" offer of some other buyer. I don't see this car as a gem or a steal, so if it gets away before you have time to make a proper inspection and decision then it's not the end of the world IMO.
Exactly. He keeps telling me that he has a guy about to buy it and I should act now but I feel that is a ploy to get me to make a rushed decision to buy the car. You could say my plans have shifted, a bit. I want to have a pristine example and I want to have a highly moded 4th gen. I have an 02 SS M6 SOM Hard top with 130k on it. It is the color that hangs me up. There were 263 or 268 of them were made, I think, so I feel like I should fix it up and keep it as a collector but it has too many miles. It has just taken me a little while to come to terms with that fact.
I think the SOM car would make for the best car to make into a "go fast" car with an LS3 swap or H/C/I and supporting mods. I've had it since it had 43k miles and have kept up with the maintenance well. I just really wanted to keep that SOM as a collector, as it is such a rare color, but the other camaro colors are starting to grow on me, such as navy blue metallic. I would love to have a pristine NBM car or maybe silver or beige. Not really sure yet. I am going to take my time and keep an eye out for a good example to pop up at a good price. I am really interested in doing an LS3 and T56 magnum in a 4th gen with a strong rear end as a fun car and a pristine, low mile car to keep in the garage. Maybe for my future children, or such.
I completely agree. That is what I am going to do. I have a 130k mile 02 SOM SS M6 that I am going to mod or drop an LS3 in then find a low mile 4th gen and do light mods to it and keep it as a collector car, so to speak. Maybe H/C/I and exhaust. I believe that would be the best way to go. I just kept thinking about how there arent many SOM cars out there and I should fix it up and keep it as a "semi collector" but as you guys said, it has too many miles at 130k. I believe this is the route I am going to take, though.
That sounds like a good plan. At least you know where your SOM car stands and aren't taking a gamble with someone else's sketchy modified car. I would restore (if needed) and modify yours, 130k really isn't crazy mileage and it being an SOM SS I would say it is 100% worth saving
He keeps telling me that he has someone coming to pay him like 7-8k for the vehicle so I should do something today. You know, just trying to make it like it is urgent and i need to get the car while I can. I don't like that very much. He also messages me regularly saying "have you decided yet" or "do you know how much your willing to offer". Daily, i would say.
Originally Posted by areax
Exactly. He keeps telling me that he has a guy about to buy it and I should act now but I feel that is a ploy to get me to make a rushed decision to buy the car.
Any time I'm faced with this type of sales tactic, I immediately loose interest and walk away. The "high pressure" routine might work on a certain type of buyer, but it can also make the seller look desperate and/or like they have something to hide. If they need you to make a decision RIGHT NOW then the best decision is usually to just walk away. If the car was actually such a gem and priced right, then he'd have no problem getting it sold without any of the pressure.
Originally Posted by areax
You could say my plans have shifted, a bit. I want to have a pristine example and I want to have a highly moded 4th gen. I have an 02 SS M6 SOM Hard top with 130k on it. It is the color that hangs me up. There were 263 or 268 of them were made, I think, so I feel like I should fix it up and keep it as a collector but it has too many miles. It has just taken me a little while to come to terms with that fact.
I think the SOM car would make for the best car to make into a "go fast" car with an LS3 swap or H/C/I and supporting mods. I've had it since it had 43k miles and have kept up with the maintenance well. I just really wanted to keep that SOM as a collector, as it is such a rare color, but the other camaro colors are starting to grow on me, such as navy blue metallic. I would love to have a pristine NBM car or maybe silver or beige. Not really sure yet. I am going to take my time and keep an eye out for a good example to pop up at a good price. I am really interested in doing an LS3 and T56 magnum in a 4th gen with a strong rear end as a fun car and a pristine, low mile car to keep in the garage. Maybe for my future children, or such.
On the SOM factor, this aspect alone isn't as much of a "collector" magnet for the Camaros as it is for the WS6 cars. The only LS1 Camaro color that has, thus far, shown real potential to bring a big premium over otherwise comparable examples is Hugger Orange (and even then, only at lower mileage). Granted, an SOM SS with really low miles and high SLP content will certainly command a premium, but the color by itself isn't enough to push it drastically above the value of an otherwise comparable example. In fact, one could argue that there is very little premium at all for the SOM color on Camaros once they reach 6-digit mileage and above. With this in mind, I think you have the right idea with your SOM car; mod it as you see fit and enjoy it as a driver.
I agree with your concept of owning multiple 4th gens for different purposes, I've been doing this myself for many years. I've kept my '98 car as a very low mileage limited use garage queen, and owned other 4th gens as daily drivers or street/strip cars. These cars are very enjoyable to drive regularly and can be even more fun when modified with the right parts, but I also like keeping one over the long term as an original, highly detailed show quality vehicle for events and the occasional Sunday cruise. It's hard if not impossible to accomplish all those tasks with the same car so, if you enjoy this platform, having more than one is a great solution.
Thank you for the heads up on the SLP shifter ****, my TA needs one too!
As for high pressure sales tactics, like RPM said that's a real turn off. However, it does seem like the owner might be motivated to sale the car. He may not have another buyer at all. My 02 Z28 had one person actually look at the car other than me during the four months or so it was for sale.
$6,500 might buy the car however don't offer that unless you want because he may jump on it.
BTW - Pewter aka beige, is one of my favorite colors for 4th Gen's but on average the classic black, white, silver, midnight blue and red are more popular.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 03-21-2019 at 05:36 AM.
Thank you for the heads up on the SLP shifter ****, my TA needs one too!
As for high pressure sales tactics, like RPM said that's a real turn off. However, it does seem like the owner might be motivated to sale the car. He may not have another buyer at all. My 02 Z28 had one person actually look at the car other than me during the four months or so it was for sale.
$6,500 might buy the car however don't offer that unless you want because he may jump on it.
BTW - Pewter aka beige, is one of my favorite colors for 4th Gen's but on average the classic black, white, silver, midnight blue and red are more popular.
Youre quite welcome. Check with hawks motorsports. They have a ton on 4th gen cars. Maybe they will pull you a good looking used unit out of a car. There’s a used but not all that great looking one in ebay right now for like 70 bones.
CAI and SLP floor mats are still being made though. And I think you can get an slp air lid but you have to buy the cai package with Blackhawk filter which is in the three hundred dollar range. Smooth bellows too, I think. It’s a mixed bag of what is and what isn’t made anymore. When you see the ebay prices go up, you know it has went down (the discontinuation if parts). 😂
ill definitelu keep that in mind. I most likely won’t make an offer and just work on my som car.
Also agree on how he seems to pressure you with texts & over phone. Don't like that. To find a low-medium mileage 4th gen, all stock, in a certain color makes it much harder. As when looking for my f-body I was hoping for a certain color. After months of searching the one that fit what I wanted was not in the color that was wanted. I purchased the car & glad I did. To me the condition of the car is much more important than the color. Good luck man.
Also agree on how he seems to pressure you with texts & over phone. Don't like that. To find a low-medium mileage 4th gen, all stock, in a certain color makes it much harder. As when looking for my f-body I was hoping for a certain color. After months of searching the one that fit what I wanted was not in the color that was wanted. I purchased the car & glad I did. To me the condition of the car is much more important than the color. Good luck man.
Exactly. Condition is everything. Thanks! I appreciate it!
And I think you can get an slp air lid but you have to buy the cai package with Blackhawk filter which is in the three hundred dollar range.
Just an FYI, you can still get an SLP air lid (lid only, no CAI package necessary) brand new directly from SLP, or from various site sponsors for about $95-100 (which is a bit cheaper than SLP direct).
03-20-2019, 06:13 AM
01 SS M6 Beige with engine mods 
a new one is like $70 which is pretty minor. Getting the driver seat recovered or replaced may be annoying. A set of seat in good condition probably $300 to $500. I scored a spare seat cover and the local auto upholstery upholstery used it to repair my 99 TA's driver seat for $65. It was just like the SS seat.
