Simple question - is a 2002 Firehawk worth more, or substantially more, than a 1999? Considering exact same miles, condition, etc. Thanks in advance!

 

I guess it depends on what you consider "substantial". All else being equal (which isn't exactly possible as there are some options and features that were available in 2002 but not in 1999 - such as the highly desirable SOM color and standard Blackwing lid), I think the value difference will be less (as a percentage) for higher mileage more common examples vs. ones that are respectively rare and ultra low mileage (for each given year). Reason being, 2002 is a more desirable year (due to being the final year AND also having a bit more power) for a higher end collector, so true collector grade examples (meaning #1 or strong #2 condition) of this year will be in higher demand. When you get to the lower grade examples (meaning weak #2, or especially #3 or #4 condition) the collectibility aspect is greatly muted, so at that point the value difference between a 1999 and a 2002 becomes mostly a matter of simple materials (i.e. mechanical enhancements of the later years) rather than the added intrinsic collector value of a last-year example.

 

Awesome, thanks for the info! I'm considering a '99 with < 5K miles, single owner, for ~$25K. The only real comparisons I can find for actual value are on BAT, and every single one of them is an '02. But a similar '99 went for only $16K back in '17.

So then, to be more direct and simple, is a single owner '99 Firehawk with less than 5K miles worth $25K? Or am I taking a huge risk that if I needed to sell it I wouldn't be able to get 20K for it? The problem I'm also having with these cars is that it seems like the asking prices are very high right now, but they don't seem to be selling. I've been following the market and I'm seeing really nice cars sitting around for months.

 

$25k is a bit high IMO unless it's a MUST HAVE car for you that you will keep for many years. To answer your other question, if you needed to sell in a hurry or changed your mind, people with $5k less, at $20k in hand, won't be knocking your door down. It would be a sale in the high teens that would happen faster. With the current virus lockdown situation at present, negotiations should be on your side. Make offers to the seller. If they are firm or in no hurry, just pass on it unless you meet the criteria I mentioned at the beginning. Best of luck!

 

Thanks, that's great advice. I love the car, and the truth is that it would be a must-have for me if not for the fact that I don't have a great place to put it and it will sit outside with a cover. If I had room in my garage I'd already have it - I was ready to go get it weeks ago but then when I tried to make room in the garage, I just couldn't make it fit comfortably.

I'd love to grab a nice one around $10K that isn't perfect but runs well, and that way if I forget the cover one night and it gets hit by the sprinklers I'm not devastated

I'll probably continue on my current path of waiting and saving, either exactly what I want will come around in my budget range, or if I can save another 5K it looks like $15K buys a lot more car than $10K.

 

However, to clarify - the '99 firehawk is something I would plan to keep stock and keep forever. It's just a matter of keeping it outside, and the risk of losing more than 5 grand if I have to sell it. Of course, If I put miles on i it won't be worth as much, but I'm not worried about that - if I put 30K miles on it in 3 years and could only sell it for $20K, I'm good with that.

Another note - I'm a nineties junky and I would ctually prefer a '99 over a '00 or later just to be able to say "99".

Lastly, am I crazy keeping a car like that outside in Florida with a good cover?

 

Your best "driving" value is in the 1998-2000 models...in the 15K-45K mile range. The advantage to the earlier 1998's is that the majority of them don't have the issue with bubbling paint on the sail panels/roof. A worthy consideration. And the 1998's are much scarcer + first year of production.

I think you might find that with a 5K mile car you will significantly depreciate it from 5K to 30K miles. That $25K would be come $15K. That won't be the case of a 30K mile car going to 60K miles. The value drop there might be from $15K to $10-$12K. A lot depends on how well you keep it. And a cover on a 5K mile "collector cream puff" kept outside is not a great idea. The car cover might cause more problems as when it gets wet, some water gets through. I tried that for a couple years and it never worked well....even using a vinyl tarp over the fabric car cover when it was going to rain.

Asking prices at $25-$30K are one thing. Reality is another. You want actual "sold" prices. Most of these 5K mile cars seem to end up in the hands of on line car dealer/flippers. They buy them for $15K-$20K, then try to get $25K-$35K. Best bang for the buck for a nice driver is a 1-2 owner vehicle in the 15K-45K mile range....I think 25K-35K is the sweet spot for value/price....assuming a diligent owner who did the required maintenance. One caveat with the 5K mile car is that you will likely be afraid to drive for fear of putting too many miles on it.....been there, done that. The price of an additional 10K miles drops as you go higher in mileage. At 100K miles an extra 10K might be $250. But at 20K miles it's $600-$1000. At 5K miles it's around $5K-$10K. Shoot for the sweet spot.

Assuming a 20K mile car. The 2001-2002 Firehawk is probably worth $1500-$2000 more than the 1998-2000. I generally figure $600-$800 drop per model year. I think this makes the rarest year (1998) the best value. Few of them were well kept. Most were driven hard by the time everyone figured out 2002 was going to be the last year.

 

Yes crazy about keeping a car under cover in Florida. Daily afternoon rain showers, dust and dirt trapped under cover with wind. I'd just be looking for a $10K driver if not going in a Garage..

 

For a totally stock 1999 Firehawk, as a private seller, actually getting $20k+ for one with ~35k miles in the next three years would be very difficult, especially as things appear now IMO. Something about the car would have to be uniquely special. As you've already mentioned, lots of high priced examples have been sitting around for a very long time, indicating that they are clearly overpriced and probably won't be going anywhere until the owners either get serious about their expectations or decide to just keep their cars. I can't tell you how many dreamers have sky-high prices and their ads just sit for months or even years, lots of unrealistic folks. If you *need* to be able to recover most of your purchase price when you sell, then I would absolutely avoid paying for a <5k mile premium example and then driving it 30k miles. You will lose a significant portion of that purchase price unless you bought it for a screaming deal.

Yes! Definitely not advisable. With under 5k miles, this example could potentially still be considered within the range of a #1 condition car if it's been cared for perfectly. If it really is that nice currently, then spending a few years outside under a cover will certainly be the end of that. So, much of the premium you're paying for such an example would be lost. For your stated purposes and goals, you would be much better off buying one that already has 20-40k miles and is extremely nice but not perfect.

 

Thanks for all the input - you've convinced me to pass on the Firehawk! The search continues

 

Smart!! Florida is nasty for 'outside' cars, just horrible, even with the best of car covers. The moisture just destroys them. I lived in Florida my entire working life and moved to NC when i retired. Been there, done that with 'outside' cars. A sweet car MUST be in a garage. Good luck with everything.

 

Finally picked one up! This was the 9th car I ran a carfax on, and the 4th I saw in person. It was also, by far, the closest one, as I could literally ride my bike to where it was sitting, but had driven 30-75 minutes to look at the other 3. She's a 2002 base T/A with 87K and 6 spd and traction control, black/ebony, for about $7900. She isn't perfect, but for a driver that's going to sit in the driveway, she is a perfect as it gets! Has the usual issues - cracked dash and door panels, bubbling sail panel, water in rear light, but I'll get to all that soon! She's also lowered and has C6 wheels and tires with firebird center caps. That's the only mods - everything else is stock including the working CD player

 

Congratulations on the purchase. It sounds like a 'perfect' outside car and one to enjoy in the meantime until you can upgrade one day when garage space becomes available.