saylorZ28

iTrader: (6)

do they make a plug adapter to switch the monsoon amp over to a new aftermarket and keep the factory wiring? can this be done in anyway?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

No.

The Monsoon amp is unique in several ways but the two that would affect your question are that it uses speaker level input rather than RCAs and that it uses signal sensing instead of a remote turn-on wire. There are a couple of aftermarket amps that have those capabilities but they are very uncommon and would severely limit your options.

saylorZ28

iTrader: (6)

well running a remote wire and rca's is not a big deal so other then that if i can run just those it would be easier then routing all the wires

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

I really hope you're kidding.

Other issues...
- the location of the Monsoon amp is not suitable for any decent aftermarket amp so the wires would have to be extended anyway.
- the power wire is only 16 gauge - much too small for any decent amp.
- the speaker wires are only 20 gauge - much too small for any decent amount of power.
- all the wires are at least 12 years old and are probably brittle.
- it's just a lazy and ghetto way to do things.

If you're going to install any kind of decent aftermarket system, do it right and pull your own wires. If you're not planning a decent aftermarket system then just upgrade the head unit and speakers and leave the original amp in place.

Daniel Richards

iTrader: (1)

yup, unless you want to end up looking like this mess https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...-my-hands.html then just run new wiring, it really isn't that hard to do and won't cost you 20 bucks worth of QUALITY 16 gauge speaker wire (like Knukonceptz) to do it.

you could in theory find a compact enough 4 channel amp and mount it to the monsoon bracket and run new power/ground and RCA's to it, but you'll still want to upgrade the speaker wiring and finding an amp to fit there significantly impacts your choices of amps.

Dave M

Glad to see I can be a cautionary tale to others.

xenergyx

iTrader: (3)

its not that bad if you have all the wiring diagrams and know what your looking at I was supposed to take a pic today but was super busy.....ill get it tommorrow and upload a pic

saylorZ28

iTrader: (6)

Well I prolly have a foot of slack on the monsoon amp harness, so not that big of a deal. Just want to get away from 2ohm and get to four ohm power . I'm not wanting to go with a huge amp just enough to rum nominal load on the pioneer speakers I have. And still utilize the factory wiring which is in great shape. I'm not going to be putting massive power out so I don't new new wires or bigger . Maybe on the amp power side I can justify but every thing else no.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Well, some of your comments indicate that you may not have a full understanding of audio systems (e.g "get away from 2ohm and get to four ohm power" is meaningless nonsense) so perhaps you should let us know what you are looking to accomplish and we can provide some advice to assist you.

saylorZ28

iTrader: (6)

ok so everything i am reading about the factory system being a 2 ohm system on this site is wrong?

The amp is a small eight-channel unit mounted on a bracket on the right quarter inner fenderwell (hatch area of a coupe, trunk of a convertible). It powers a mix of 2-ohm and 4-ohm speakers. The 97 and some early 98 models came with a 200 watt amp that was physically smaller than later models. The rest of 98 through 99 came with an amp that was rated at 200-watts RMS. For 2000 and later models, GM changed their advertising to rate the very same amp at 500-watts. Some say this is a peak rating while others just consider it an ILS (If Lightning Strikes) rating. GM also claimed an RMS rating of 240-watts for this amp but the original 200-watt rating given to the amp is probably more accurate. In any case, there is no point in trying to upgrade a 98 or 99 to the "more powerful" 500-watt amp of later years - it's exactly the same amp.

The speakers vary greatly between models. Firebird coupes have ten speaker elements mounted in six locations, Camaro coupes have eight speaker elements mounted in six locations, and convertibles of both lines have eight speaker elements mounted in four locations. The eight channel amp powers all speaker elements in the Camaro coupe and all convertibles. It powers all speakers except the tweeters in Firebird coupes.

Firebird coupes have component 6.5S (6.5" oversize) 2-ohm mids and .75" 4-ohm tweeters mounted separately in the doors, dual voice coil 6.5S (4-ohm + 4-ohm) subs mounted in the sail panels (beside the rear seat), and component 4" 4-ohm mids and .75" 4-ohm tweeters mounted separately in the hatch area. The two door mids and two hatch mids account for four of the eight channels of the amp while the DVC subs account for two channels each to make up the other four channels. This leaves the front and rear tweeters to be powered directly by the head unit.

Camaro coupes have component 6.5S 2-ohm mids and .75" 4-ohm tweeters mounted coaxially in the doors (they look like ordinary coax speakers but are actually wired as separate components), single voice coil 6.5S 2-ohm subs in the sail panels, and 4" 4-ohm full-range speakers in the hatch area. All eight elements are powered by the amp.

Convertibles have component 6.5S 2-ohm mids and .75" 4-ohm tweeters mounted coaxially in the doors. The schematics show 6.5S 2-ohm woofers and .75" 4-ohm tweeters mounted coaxially in the quarter panels beside the rear seats but inspection of the actual speakers has discovered both the woofers and tweeters are actually 4-ohm. All eight elements are powered by the amp

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Yes, some of the speakers in the Monsoon systems are 2-ohm, some of them are 4-ohm (and yes, I know what the Monsoon FAQ says - I wrote it). But that makes virtually no difference when talking about replacement speakers and power. In fact, your statement about getting away from 2-ohm to gain 4-ohm power is actually 100% opposite to the physics. A 2-ohm speaker will produce twice as much output power as an identical 4-ohm speaker when given the same input signal. So you really should be saying you want to get away from 4-ohm speakers to gain 2-ohm power.

Another quote from the FAQ (if you'd read a little farther down)...
So talking about replacing speakers because you think you gain something merely because of the change in impedance is completely false.

There are other considerations as well. The Monsoon amp is an 8-channel amp (something you won't easily find in the aftermarket) that shapes the signal by speaker location. Installing your own aftermarket amp with 2-way (or worse, 3-way or more) speakers in the sail panels will just pull your sound stage back behind you and actually make the system sound worse than the original Monsoon. The mid-bass provided by the Monsoon sail panel subs is at a frequency low enough that you really can't distinguish what direction it's coming from so the overall sound is more natural.

saylorZ28

iTrader: (6)

so your saying i should swap in 4 ohm speakers to the factory 2ohm as long as the dg gain is comparable, and forget longevity. dont 4ohm speakers take a beating from 2ohm

Daniel Richards

iTrader: (1)

No, you are just misunderstanding basic electricity concepts, the speakers in these cars for the most part end up at a 2 ohm load, this doesn't make them "2 ohm power" ohm is a measure of resistance NOT a measure of power output, the difference between 2 and 4 ohm is related to power output as different ohm loads result in the amp outputting different amounts of watts (a power measurement).

Google Ohm's Law and get a little understanding of terminology, yes changing speakers to 4 ohm alters the output wattage of the amp (lowers it), but ohms is NOT A POWER Source.

IF YOU HAVE 4 OHM speakers then you are a 4 OHM SYSTEM, there is no more 2 OHM as the OHMS come from the SPEAKERS THEMSELVES.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

No, I'm saying you should get quality speakers regardless of their impedance. A quality speaker will last longer than the cheap paper speakers that came from the factory but whether they are 4-ohm or 2-ohm is not an issue.

And I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by 4-ohm speakers taking a beating from 2-ohm. Amps don't output impedance. Speaker impedance is much like resistance in a DC circuit. Your alternator does not output resistance, it outputs electrical current and the devices that use that current provide resistance to the flow of current. If you install a new light bulb that has twice as much resistance as the original, the current in that circuit from the alternator will be cut in half so the bulb won't be as bright. But if you install a light bulb with a different material in the filament that is more efficient at producing light (say halogen instead of ordinary incandescent) you could still have twice the resistance, half the current flow, and yet have a brighter light. Speakers are similar - you can have a speaker that has twice the impedance and therefore cuts the current from the amp in half but is so much more efficient in converting that current into sound that you don't lose any volume.

saylorZ28

iTrader: (6)

ok now i am starting to see so it doesn't matter if i have a 4,2 ohm speaker in the replacement speakers, over factory.
then why the big deal over everyone having to by replacement speakers from kee, and not just any aftermarket as long as it is good quality, like say jl audio c5-650x?

Daniel Richards

iTrader: (1)

depends on the location, the sail panels NEED a mid-range woofer (and the ones from KeeAudio have been picked because of there response range being where it should be) putting a 2-way or component into the sails RUINS the sound stage and when you switch from a 2 ohm to 4 ohm (in principal, there are other factors that effect it, like db efficiency of the speakers) you effectively cut the power going to the speaker in half which reduces the volume by about (theoretically) 3 db (but if you get a speaker 3db more efficient then what you are replacing then you probably won't notice much). and buy the time you buy those JL components your well on your way to the entry level package from Kee which includes new sails and hatch speakers.

saylorZ28

iTrader: (6)

well i was thinking about the c5-650x in the doors and jl mid in the sail panels, and maybe mids and tweets in the rear since there is room

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

As Daniel was saying, the speakers offered by Kee Audio and Double D Mods are chosen for the way they match various requirements of the factory system. For example, the door speakers in a Camaro are components (the mid and tweeter run as separate speakers) but they are mounted with the tweeter in the center of the mid like a coaxial speaker. The CDT speakers that Kee Audio offers are exactly that configuration so you don't have to worry about how they mount or giving up one of the channels to run coaxials. The sail panels get only low frequency signal from the amp so coaxial or full range speakers will not sound good there because they can't handle the low signal well. Also, Firebirds have dual voice coil speakers there so you want the same to be able to use both channels... or in the case of Camaros, combine the two 4-ohm voice coils to make 2-ohms (no point in giving up any power if you don't have to).

However, going over this thread has raised a question... if your car is the '96 Z27 (whatever that is) in your signature, it could not have had a Monsoon system since that wasn't available until '97. The premium audio system in a '96 Camaro was the Bose which is not even remotely similar to a Monsoon.

xenergyx

iTrader: (3)

If you want more power and better sound quality and louder you would go down ie 2ohm to 1ohm stable not that your ear could handle that kinda power being as their is a speaker in the sail panel even if you used a component and moved the tweet to the very back it would scream in your ear ...... ask me how i know....But it sounds like you just wanna get away from stock but at an entry level so I would suggest a good set of jbl components for the front so you can replace the factory tweets and speakers and get away from paper cone to a polymere of some kind or rubber if you care than for the sails go with an adjustable coaxial set and completely leave out the speakers in the rear that theirs no point to have those unless your OCD and or you hve ppl back there. Than go with a small 600.4 for your highs since it doesnt sound like you want a sub and that should provide you with a mediocre bass level that comfortable to your listening level and family fun ......XD that way I can drive buy you with mine and shake your windows XD

saylorZ28

iTrader: (6)

haven't update my sig. i have a 99 camaro ss m6 now sold the other one . i loved the bose in my 96 wished they never switch to monsoon