Problem with convertible rear speakers from Kee Audio?
#41
Hey Lee, it is a different setup then stock so it will sound slightly different removing the tweeters from the rear. Let me know if you want me to send you that other set. The are slim full range coaxials.
This is to everybody in general:
Here's one thing I want to point out and something to keep in mind about audio systems. There is definitely a generation gap in sound and audio systems. The old days 6x9" speakers in the rear deck and a nice radio were all the rage. This to be honest was kind of backwards as the sound was coming at you from the rear. The thing was though with alot of these cars, that's how the sound was setup from the manufacturer and they made it almost impossible to do anything with the front speakers anyway or made them so small that it just made sense to get a better set of 6x9" in the rear deck area and roll. This was the setup of the day in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, maybe even the 90's as I recall. I did do a 57 Chevy as well that the owner wanted 6x9" in the rear. Look at 3rd gens. Same thing. G-Bodies had a 4x10" oval but alot of guys swapped those for 6x9" as well. Focus was sound from the back of the car forward and alot of people got used to that.
So my point is when it comes to the older generation...and please don't take that as I am calling you old or anyone else for that matter...that's not what I mean. I mean that with those cars the audio was alot different and more difficult to have what is known as a sound stage and certain generations get used to a certain style of audio over the course of many years so anything that is different is going to sound like just that, different. And that may not be what your looking for if your were used to that kind of sound. In that case I do have other options for that type of sound.
The sound stage is generally supposed to come from the front. Think of it as a rock concert where the speakers are pointing at you from the stage. Generally the bass scoops are along the bottom facing you and then full range types of speakers along the sides and up top all facing you. In some cases there are some speakers behind you as well but the main focus of sound comes at you from the front.
With the more modern systems in cars, some manufacturers have emulated this and at least attempted to have this incorporated in there cars audio systems. The Monsoon system at least in coupe form and sort of in the convertibles has tried to do that. In the coupe you have a set of components which is great as far as using components. The Delco speakers are really bad but the fact that they at least used a component set is good. So you have a solid base for the front stage. Those should always be your main focus first. Good sound from the closest speakers to you which in this case is the doors. This is very prevalent in car audio sound quality competitions as to where the sound is coming from and the front stage quality of sound.
In coupes the rear sail area is a dedicated subwoofer. Also cool as you now have sub frequency range covered. They could have stopped right there and been fine but the problem was that the passengers in the rear would only get sub frequency sound in the coupe version so they put small 4" rear fill in the very back to help with that. I almost never had rear passengers in my Trans Am so rear fill was never a concern for me personally so I never replaced the rear 4". Mine was also a full blown aftermarket system at that point though.
The verts have unique issues in that they could not use the subs in the rear due to lack of space and since a convertible has no top inherently lack bass response. Alot of guys don't want to add a sub in the trunk to combat the lack of bass frequency either. So what I tried to do was offer something different to try and get back some of the lost bass. Granted it will never be a bass heavy system as you are not changing the amp or the signal nor do you have an enclosed space behind the speaker to get good bass response as that rear area which is essentially an open panel behind it. Your just focusing the frequency on certain lower ranges by eliminating the tweeters in the rear.
Again, this may not be your thing...generally speaking, which was why I have other options I can do for the rear on these. Thing is please folks just consider what type of sound you want before you bolt these things in. I will swap stuff around for you, change stuff, whatever. The thing I cannot do is mind read what kind of sound you have in your head that you want it to sound like or what you may be used to. I know what I think it should sound like and what other customers have liked but not everyone likes the same thing. I do have a pretty solid music background not just from an installation aspect but from the musician side of it as well. I've played sax, drums, and been playing guitar for over 28 years. Longer then I've done car audio stuff so I have a musical ear so to speak. I apply that to audio systems I build as well. But, again, not everyone has the same idea of what the music should sound like.
Just wanted to put that out there for thought. Sorry it was long winded.
This is to everybody in general:
Here's one thing I want to point out and something to keep in mind about audio systems. There is definitely a generation gap in sound and audio systems. The old days 6x9" speakers in the rear deck and a nice radio were all the rage. This to be honest was kind of backwards as the sound was coming at you from the rear. The thing was though with alot of these cars, that's how the sound was setup from the manufacturer and they made it almost impossible to do anything with the front speakers anyway or made them so small that it just made sense to get a better set of 6x9" in the rear deck area and roll. This was the setup of the day in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, maybe even the 90's as I recall. I did do a 57 Chevy as well that the owner wanted 6x9" in the rear. Look at 3rd gens. Same thing. G-Bodies had a 4x10" oval but alot of guys swapped those for 6x9" as well. Focus was sound from the back of the car forward and alot of people got used to that.
So my point is when it comes to the older generation...and please don't take that as I am calling you old or anyone else for that matter...that's not what I mean. I mean that with those cars the audio was alot different and more difficult to have what is known as a sound stage and certain generations get used to a certain style of audio over the course of many years so anything that is different is going to sound like just that, different. And that may not be what your looking for if your were used to that kind of sound. In that case I do have other options for that type of sound.
The sound stage is generally supposed to come from the front. Think of it as a rock concert where the speakers are pointing at you from the stage. Generally the bass scoops are along the bottom facing you and then full range types of speakers along the sides and up top all facing you. In some cases there are some speakers behind you as well but the main focus of sound comes at you from the front.
With the more modern systems in cars, some manufacturers have emulated this and at least attempted to have this incorporated in there cars audio systems. The Monsoon system at least in coupe form and sort of in the convertibles has tried to do that. In the coupe you have a set of components which is great as far as using components. The Delco speakers are really bad but the fact that they at least used a component set is good. So you have a solid base for the front stage. Those should always be your main focus first. Good sound from the closest speakers to you which in this case is the doors. This is very prevalent in car audio sound quality competitions as to where the sound is coming from and the front stage quality of sound.
In coupes the rear sail area is a dedicated subwoofer. Also cool as you now have sub frequency range covered. They could have stopped right there and been fine but the problem was that the passengers in the rear would only get sub frequency sound in the coupe version so they put small 4" rear fill in the very back to help with that. I almost never had rear passengers in my Trans Am so rear fill was never a concern for me personally so I never replaced the rear 4". Mine was also a full blown aftermarket system at that point though.
The verts have unique issues in that they could not use the subs in the rear due to lack of space and since a convertible has no top inherently lack bass response. Alot of guys don't want to add a sub in the trunk to combat the lack of bass frequency either. So what I tried to do was offer something different to try and get back some of the lost bass. Granted it will never be a bass heavy system as you are not changing the amp or the signal nor do you have an enclosed space behind the speaker to get good bass response as that rear area which is essentially an open panel behind it. Your just focusing the frequency on certain lower ranges by eliminating the tweeters in the rear.
Again, this may not be your thing...generally speaking, which was why I have other options I can do for the rear on these. Thing is please folks just consider what type of sound you want before you bolt these things in. I will swap stuff around for you, change stuff, whatever. The thing I cannot do is mind read what kind of sound you have in your head that you want it to sound like or what you may be used to. I know what I think it should sound like and what other customers have liked but not everyone likes the same thing. I do have a pretty solid music background not just from an installation aspect but from the musician side of it as well. I've played sax, drums, and been playing guitar for over 28 years. Longer then I've done car audio stuff so I have a musical ear so to speak. I apply that to audio systems I build as well. But, again, not everyone has the same idea of what the music should sound like.
Just wanted to put that out there for thought. Sorry it was long winded.
#42
Great information Ian and, thanks for offer. Let me think about it and get a chance to really listen to the system while driving the car. It has been two weeks of rain here.
I'll let you know.
I'll let you know.
#43
Received my CDT front speakers promptly from Kee Audio (shipped factory direct from CDT) yesterday and did the install last night after work. Even though I do not have a monsoon amp I installed them with the supplied crossovers to the stock HU and they sound a 100 times better than the OEMs with the rotted surrounds ! It is evident why these are the go to speakers for 4th gens. Fit was excellent as expected. Good bass and treble response. I am trying to decide to order the slim full range coax or the CL-6SL slim midrange speakers for rear fill like you just installed....rears sound terrible in comparison so they definitely need replacing.
#44
Lee, did you get a chance to drive the car with the rear speakers installed, top down ?
Received my CDT front speakers promptly from Kee Audio (shipped factory direct from CDT) yesterday and did the install last night after work. Even though I do not have a monsoon amp I installed them with the supplied crossovers to the stock HU and they sound a 100 times better than the OEMs with the rotted surrounds ! It is evident why these are the go to speakers for 4th gens. Fit was excellent as expected. Good bass and treble response. I am trying to decide to order the slim full range coax or the CL-6SL slim midrange speakers for rear fill like you just installed....rears sound terrible in comparison so they definitely need replacing.
Received my CDT front speakers promptly from Kee Audio (shipped factory direct from CDT) yesterday and did the install last night after work. Even though I do not have a monsoon amp I installed them with the supplied crossovers to the stock HU and they sound a 100 times better than the OEMs with the rotted surrounds ! It is evident why these are the go to speakers for 4th gens. Fit was excellent as expected. Good bass and treble response. I am trying to decide to order the slim full range coax or the CL-6SL slim midrange speakers for rear fill like you just installed....rears sound terrible in comparison so they definitely need replacing.
This is a tough evaluation as the new speakers sound very good. However, at times I miss the rich bass sound of coaxial type speakers. The new speakers are labeled mid-bass for very good reason. Lower bass is just not there, at the rear. I also believe some of this is inherent to the convertible body. Adding a sub is not a choice as I want to maintain a bone stock appearance. It would be great to hear from some other forum members who have made this change.
#45
I have a Monsoon Coupe, so this setup is what I've had since day one. I've found that adjusting the fade and radio equalizer is critical to getting good sound. The fade will allow you to get the right balance of base and the EQ will help manage some of that distortion you hear from the subs. If the bass is turned up too far, the 6" speakers (limited by physics) won't be able to handle everything they are receiving.
#46
I have a Monsoon Coupe, so this setup is what I've had since day one. I've found that adjusting the fade and radio equalizer is critical to getting good sound. The fade will allow you to get the right balance of base and the EQ will help manage some of that distortion you hear from the subs. If the bass is turned up too far, the 6" speakers (limited by physics) won't be able to handle everything they are receiving.
I'd like to hear from convertible owners but you comments are appreciated.
#47
I wasn't saying that my coupe has great sound but more that the points you are describing are common to the experience I have with my Monsoon head unit and 6" subs. (Beyond drowning out the conversation/nagging coming from the passenger seat, I don't worry to much about anything else related to the radio.)