Meissen's Project CarPC Thread
08-01-2006, 10:34 AM
#241
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Originally Posted by JasonWW
It is possible to put the controls in the glove box without losing hardly any space. Take a look at Snootches setup.
Although not the prettiest, it can be made to look nicer and it still leaves a lot of room in there.
I just don't like having to reach over and open the door everytime. I know it's not something you would do HPP, but it seemed as if you thought it took up the whole glove box. It doesn't have to.
Although not the prettiest, it can be made to look nicer and it still leaves a lot of room in there.
I just don't like having to reach over and open the door everytime. I know it's not something you would do HPP, but it seemed as if you thought it took up the whole glove box. It doesn't have to.
Anyway, you're right, it doesn't physically occupy much room. However.... if you put stuff in there, especially things like manual, registration, insurance info, note pad and pen, etc, you cover up the controls. So you'd have to pull that stuff out every time you wanted to make any adjustments, or, not use the glove box for anything else, which, ends up meaning that they do actually occupy a lot of space (all of it) in a practical sense.
08-01-2006, 10:51 AM
#242
Originally Posted by HPP
It's a left hand drive S14 Silvia. Known as a 240SX here in the US.
Nissan of America was down at the docks when the Silvia first came over, peeling off badges and replacing them with a number because they thought a car named "Silvia" would not sell.
But they screwed things up by taking the 180 and calling it a 240SX as well. AND they took S13 Silvia's and put 180 front ends on them and called *them* 240's too.
Granted, they are all the same chassis and blood line (S13 came in Silvia form - standard coupe with exposed lights, or 180 form - hatchback with flip up lights), but calling them all 240SX with no differentiation is just a cluster ****.
So anyway, his 98 "240" is indeed just a Silvia with left hand drive and a US spec engine, which is bigger than the Qs engine, making it almost an naturally aspirated Ks (in a sense).
Nissan of America was down at the docks when the Silvia first came over, peeling off badges and replacing them with a number because they thought a car named "Silvia" would not sell.
But they screwed things up by taking the 180 and calling it a 240SX as well. AND they took S13 Silvia's and put 180 front ends on them and called *them* 240's too.
Granted, they are all the same chassis and blood line (S13 came in Silvia form - standard coupe with exposed lights, or 180 form - hatchback with flip up lights), but calling them all 240SX with no differentiation is just a cluster ****.
So anyway, his 98 "240" is indeed just a Silvia with left hand drive and a US spec engine, which is bigger than the Qs engine, making it almost an naturally aspirated Ks (in a sense).
08-02-2006, 12:40 AM
#243
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Originally Posted by HPP
Is his pic host finally back up? His skin and work log pics were all red x's a few days ago. Even Kiztope said the same thing.
Anyway, you're right, it doesn't physically occupy much room. However.... if you put stuff in there, especially things like manual, registration, insurance info, note pad and pen, etc, you cover up the controls. So you'd have to pull that stuff out every time you wanted to make any adjustments, or, not use the glove box for anything else, which, ends up meaning that they do actually occupy a lot of space (all of it) in a practical sense.
Anyway, you're right, it doesn't physically occupy much room. However.... if you put stuff in there, especially things like manual, registration, insurance info, note pad and pen, etc, you cover up the controls. So you'd have to pull that stuff out every time you wanted to make any adjustments, or, not use the glove box for anything else, which, ends up meaning that they do actually occupy a lot of space (all of it) in a practical sense.
I don't keep anything except my manual (registration tucked in the pages) in my glovebox, so it's not really a big deal to lean over, flip the lid open, turn the ****, and snap the lid back shut.
08-02-2006, 12:57 PM
#244
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Snootch, that foam between the fixed interior piece and the t-top compartment flap is a great idea.
What kind did you use and how thick is it?
What kind of difference has it made? I'm assuming it's squeesing the flappy part up against the hatch to keep it from rattling, but does it help hold down the fixed plastic parts as well? (on the driver's side, it doesn't seem very sturdy or secure - on mine at least, you can easily move it, so I'm imagining it's part of the noise I hear)
What kind did you use and how thick is it?
What kind of difference has it made? I'm assuming it's squeesing the flappy part up against the hatch to keep it from rattling, but does it help hold down the fixed plastic parts as well? (on the driver's side, it doesn't seem very sturdy or secure - on mine at least, you can easily move it, so I'm imagining it's part of the noise I hear)
08-03-2006, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HPP
Snootch, that foam between the fixed interior piece and the t-top compartment flap is a great idea.
What kind did you use and how thick is it?
What kind of difference has it made? I'm assuming it's squeesing the flappy part up against the hatch to keep it from rattling, but does it help hold down the fixed plastic parts as well? (on the driver's side, it doesn't seem very sturdy or secure - on mine at least, you can easily move it, so I'm imagining it's part of the noise I hear)
What kind did you use and how thick is it?
What kind of difference has it made? I'm assuming it's squeesing the flappy part up against the hatch to keep it from rattling, but does it help hold down the fixed plastic parts as well? (on the driver's side, it doesn't seem very sturdy or secure - on mine at least, you can easily move it, so I'm imagining it's part of the noise I hear)
08-04-2006, 08:38 AM
#246
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Ah, yes, I think I know what kind of foam you mean. Thanks.
I was just worried about stuffing too much in and putting too much pressure in there.
I know most of my clunking, thunking and crashing I hear over bumps is due to my stock shocks, but(!), it's just that they are causing bits of the interior to shake. That seems the easiest and most logical place to start trying to cinch things down. Should help hold the side plastic in check too.
Is that one sub all you have? What's it sound like with it off to the side like that?
I was just worried about stuffing too much in and putting too much pressure in there.
I know most of my clunking, thunking and crashing I hear over bumps is due to my stock shocks, but(!), it's just that they are causing bits of the interior to shake. That seems the easiest and most logical place to start trying to cinch things down. Should help hold the side plastic in check too.
Is that one sub all you have? What's it sound like with it off to the side like that?
08-13-2006, 10:57 PM
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Sub bass below 80hz is uni-directional, so I really can't tell where it's coming from. I would find your offending panels and get them to stop buzzing by tightening them down somehow, or by wedging small strips of foam under them.
08-14-2006, 04:49 PM
#248
Originally Posted by Snootch
Sub bass below 80hz is uni-directional, so I really can't tell where it's coming from. I would find your offending panels and get them to stop buzzing by tightening them down somehow, or by wedging small strips of foam under them.
I've got quite a bit of experience in deadening cars and HPP seems interested, so I'll post up some hints.
When looking for resonances get a CD with 1/3 octave pink noise. Turn off the mids and tweets and just let the subs play. Set the player to repeat the track over and over and then turn up the volume while you are in the back seat area. Certain frequencies will create the rattling. I track them down one by one and fix each one before moving to the next. In the F-body's it's usually the plastic panels that will rattle.
In my "sound deadening kit" I use light density foam like you would get at a sporting goods or outdoor equipment store for sleeping on. I got a big roll of it for very cheap. It compresses very easily and is light weight. You can cut off a chunk and squeeze it in between 2 panels to keep pressure on them. This technique should fix most rattles or resonances. Large flat panels of sheetmetal may be the exception. This is one of the few times when adding mass will help. One of my old techniques to add a lot of mass and stiffness was to get some bondo and BB's. Spread a layer of bondo thickly and then pack the BB's into it. This works like gangbusters, but may be too extreme to use in a lot of places. Think of this as a secret weapon and only use it where you need it. Typically panels with big holes in them so there is not a lot of surface area for dynamat to stick to or around the tail light area which is right next to the subs and oddly shaped. Most metal panels you can use regular dynamat pads to stick to them. Just don't go dynamat crazy like some and stick it on the back of the plastic panels. This adds unneccesary weight and defeats the purpose of a plastic panel in the first place. Plus it wastes a lot of your money.
Another item is black adhesive backed felt which can be got at a craft store or Walmart. Sometimes you will get 2 plastic panels that slide against one another causing a squeek. You can cut off a small piece and then pry the top panel back slightly and then slip the felt in between. It is thin enough that you can't really see the panel sticking up any and it will stop the squeeking.
Another item I use is a dense rubber. I will get one of those rubber baseballs from a toy store and then slice out wedge pieces. You use this where the light foam would simply compress fully and not do any good. I've had good luck fixing rattling dashes with this on other cars. Use this rubber where any heavy piece is vibrating or rattling.
By using a combination of the test tones as well as test drives over bumpy roads with the windows up you should be able to track down all the squeeks and rattles. If you are having trouble finding the source of one, then have someone else drive while you sit in back to pinpoint it's location.
One time I had this dash rattle about 6 years ago in another car and for the life of me couldn't find the source after months of trying. So I got another person to drive and I sat in the passenger seat and I was able to triangulate the source. Turns out it was on the firewall in the engine compartment and not inside the car. Wiper motor bushings had gone hard. So don't give up. Eventually you can find and fix all the rattles and squeeks.
There are other sourses of noise as well, such as wind and tire noise. The only thing you can do with tires is either drive on quieter roads or get new tires. In other words, not much. Wind noise can be the most dangerous to diagnose as you usually have to be on the freeway to find their source. Luckily these f-bodys tend to cut through the air pretty good. The main areas are going to be the window seal and door seal. The window can be adjusted to tuck in tighter at the top if you think that is your problem. Everything else is going to be related to changing out the door seals or T-top seals.
Hope that helps someone.
08-16-2006, 10:40 AM
#249
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Originally Posted by JasonWW
Hope that helps someone.
Question about Dynamat - I remember years (and years) ago hearing that people mistakenly thought you had to coat the entire surface for it to work, but that all you really needed was just a little bit.
I'm sure that it would act as a muffler/sound deadener quite well if you coated the entire surface (for example, I've seen pics where people have taked up the carpet in the rear, and removed the plastic panels and put Dynamat over every square inch), but, that seems heavy. Is there anyway to benefit by using less? At Circuit City, they have a demo with 2 bells (the ring bell for service, kind of bell), and one has a tiny little patch of dynamat on it, the other has none. Obvisously the one without rings loud and clear, as a bell is meant to. But the one with the small patch, gives a dull thunk and nothing more.
Just wondering if there's any resonance in the metal of the body that could be quieted down (and maybe prevent other attatched components from buzzing/rattling) by using it judiciously to save weight. (Theoretically, if a surface can't vibrate, it can't pass sound. So it would seem that total coverage would be overkill)
08-16-2006, 11:53 AM
#250
I don't know why people coat the entire surface. Possibly ignorance.
You see, every object in the universe, if it has mass, has a resonant frequency. That is the frequency that it naturally vibrates at. Sound by it's very nature is simply pressure waves or pulses traveling through a meduim. Here on Earth, these pressure waves travel through air molecules. (Remember the Alien movie slogan "They can't hear you scream in space) Any meduim will do though, water, dirt, glass, metals, rubber, etc... Our ears are more sensitive to the air molecules due to their design, but we can also hear through our bodies as well. Since the human range of hearing is only defined by what our ears can detect the audible spectrum is generally said to be 20 to 20,000 vibrations per second or hertz. It's a loose range, some people can hear 17 or 18 hertz or maybe only down to 25-27. Same to the top end of the range. It's not an exact 20-20K as everyone is a little different.
To simplify, when you have a vibration source like a car engine, tire or anything that makes noise outside the cabin the pressure waves travel through the air and come in contact with the automobiles body. Sometimes it won't travel through the air but through the frame or unibody structure. The end result is that the cars body panels will vibrate or resonate if the frequency is right and amplitude is high enough. These are 2 key things so remember them (freq and amplitude). On the inside of the car the speakers are producing sound of coarse, but sometimes the freq and the amplitude will be enough to make a body panel, plastic panel, etc... start to resonate and this will produce a sound higher in freq (a harmonic of the fundamental) than what the speaker is playing and your ears will pick this up as not being part of the music.
Again to simplify, this rattle or vibration of a panel will be noticable. So how do we solve it and make it quiet again? If you actually have a rattling peice of sheetmetal like say from a home air conditioner or something you can place your finger lightly near the edge of the panel and not much will happen. However, placing your finger lightly near the center will cause the panel to stop vibrating. What you are doing is bracing the panel which greatly reduces the panels ability to flex and therefore vibrate. Using the bracing technique is great. It can be very light weight and work extremely well. It's not always pratical, though. Stuffing a piece of foam between the cars body and a plastic interior panel is a form of bracing. It's super light and works really well. A spot where you can't brace would be the floor panels. They are large flat peices of sheet metal and can easily transfer vibrations to the cars interior. Now ideally you would stick a light weight tube from the floor panels to the ceiling thereby bracing it and quieting the panels, but we all know that is not practical. It would look horrible.
So for those panels we can use another technique, adding mass. When we make the panel heavier (without effecting it's stiffness) we are changing it's resonant frequency. Adding mass will lower the freq. The lower the freq the more amplitude is needed to make the panels new resonant freq audible. Sometimes you can bring it's resonant freq down to subsonic levels (below 20Hz). Even with lots of amplitude it won't be heard, but might be felt. Most of the time a panel will stop being heard by a smaller drop in it's resonant freq, so you don't have to aim for subsonic everytime.
You can also make a panel stiffer to make it quiet. Stiffening raises the resonant freq, but that is not a bad thing. Even though the resonant freq is higher, a stiffer panel will require more amplitude to be heard.
Bracing is the lightest
stiffening adds more weight
adding mass is the heaviest option
Imagine a square 18" by 18" piece of sheetmetal welded into a car that is vibrating. Since the panel is welded around it's edges they are not going to be vibrating much at all. Guess where the noise is coming from? If you said the center, then good for you. You can add a brace to the center, stiffen it with a layer of bondo or glue a piece of wood to it, etc... or add mass like a piece of 18"x18" dynamat or similar material. Adding the mass near the edges isn't going to do anything so you can take that big piece and put a 9x9 inch piece in the center of the sheetmetal panel. If that is not enough to amke it quiet, for you then add a second 9x9 piece to the center. Focusing the full 180 inches of dynamat on the center area will have a much greater effect than laying out the single large piece over the whole panel.
I'm kind of mixing resonances caused by the speakers with preventing outside sounds from entering the car because they are very similar in nature. An outside sound (or pressure wave) comes into contact with say a door panel and it can cause that door panel to vibrate a little. Since there is air on both sides of the door panel the air inside the car will be effected by the vibrating door and continue the pressure wave and your ears may pick it up. Sound also goes through the glass, but since it is so stiff it is more resistant to vibrating. Still, everything that has mass has a resonant frequency and can vibrate. You can never stop an object from vibrating. You can only reduce it's resonant freq or it's amplitude. Usually one or the other is all you need to make it quieter than the surrounding ambient noise level. That is really what you are shooting for. Whenever you reduce the ambient noise level you are opening another can of worms because you can now hear rattles or squeeks you previously could not and the sound deadening cycle gets repeated.
Hope that makes sense.
PS.
The human ear is more sensitive to midrange frequencies and less sensitive to the extremes. A very high freq or a very low freq is going to be harder for us to hear even though it's amplitude is the same as the mid range freq. Think of the old EQ's where we had the smily faces. We always boosted the lows and highs.
It's easier to lower a panels resonant freq than it is to raise it. So even without an amplitude change, simply lowering the resonant frequency will make it quieter to our ears even though a sound meter will say otherwise.
You see, every object in the universe, if it has mass, has a resonant frequency. That is the frequency that it naturally vibrates at. Sound by it's very nature is simply pressure waves or pulses traveling through a meduim. Here on Earth, these pressure waves travel through air molecules. (Remember the Alien movie slogan "They can't hear you scream in space) Any meduim will do though, water, dirt, glass, metals, rubber, etc... Our ears are more sensitive to the air molecules due to their design, but we can also hear through our bodies as well. Since the human range of hearing is only defined by what our ears can detect the audible spectrum is generally said to be 20 to 20,000 vibrations per second or hertz. It's a loose range, some people can hear 17 or 18 hertz or maybe only down to 25-27. Same to the top end of the range. It's not an exact 20-20K as everyone is a little different.
To simplify, when you have a vibration source like a car engine, tire or anything that makes noise outside the cabin the pressure waves travel through the air and come in contact with the automobiles body. Sometimes it won't travel through the air but through the frame or unibody structure. The end result is that the cars body panels will vibrate or resonate if the frequency is right and amplitude is high enough. These are 2 key things so remember them (freq and amplitude). On the inside of the car the speakers are producing sound of coarse, but sometimes the freq and the amplitude will be enough to make a body panel, plastic panel, etc... start to resonate and this will produce a sound higher in freq (a harmonic of the fundamental) than what the speaker is playing and your ears will pick this up as not being part of the music.
Again to simplify, this rattle or vibration of a panel will be noticable. So how do we solve it and make it quiet again? If you actually have a rattling peice of sheetmetal like say from a home air conditioner or something you can place your finger lightly near the edge of the panel and not much will happen. However, placing your finger lightly near the center will cause the panel to stop vibrating. What you are doing is bracing the panel which greatly reduces the panels ability to flex and therefore vibrate. Using the bracing technique is great. It can be very light weight and work extremely well. It's not always pratical, though. Stuffing a piece of foam between the cars body and a plastic interior panel is a form of bracing. It's super light and works really well. A spot where you can't brace would be the floor panels. They are large flat peices of sheet metal and can easily transfer vibrations to the cars interior. Now ideally you would stick a light weight tube from the floor panels to the ceiling thereby bracing it and quieting the panels, but we all know that is not practical. It would look horrible.
So for those panels we can use another technique, adding mass. When we make the panel heavier (without effecting it's stiffness) we are changing it's resonant frequency. Adding mass will lower the freq. The lower the freq the more amplitude is needed to make the panels new resonant freq audible. Sometimes you can bring it's resonant freq down to subsonic levels (below 20Hz). Even with lots of amplitude it won't be heard, but might be felt. Most of the time a panel will stop being heard by a smaller drop in it's resonant freq, so you don't have to aim for subsonic everytime.
You can also make a panel stiffer to make it quiet. Stiffening raises the resonant freq, but that is not a bad thing. Even though the resonant freq is higher, a stiffer panel will require more amplitude to be heard.
Bracing is the lightest
stiffening adds more weight
adding mass is the heaviest option
Imagine a square 18" by 18" piece of sheetmetal welded into a car that is vibrating. Since the panel is welded around it's edges they are not going to be vibrating much at all. Guess where the noise is coming from? If you said the center, then good for you. You can add a brace to the center, stiffen it with a layer of bondo or glue a piece of wood to it, etc... or add mass like a piece of 18"x18" dynamat or similar material. Adding the mass near the edges isn't going to do anything so you can take that big piece and put a 9x9 inch piece in the center of the sheetmetal panel. If that is not enough to amke it quiet, for you then add a second 9x9 piece to the center. Focusing the full 180 inches of dynamat on the center area will have a much greater effect than laying out the single large piece over the whole panel.
I'm kind of mixing resonances caused by the speakers with preventing outside sounds from entering the car because they are very similar in nature. An outside sound (or pressure wave) comes into contact with say a door panel and it can cause that door panel to vibrate a little. Since there is air on both sides of the door panel the air inside the car will be effected by the vibrating door and continue the pressure wave and your ears may pick it up. Sound also goes through the glass, but since it is so stiff it is more resistant to vibrating. Still, everything that has mass has a resonant frequency and can vibrate. You can never stop an object from vibrating. You can only reduce it's resonant freq or it's amplitude. Usually one or the other is all you need to make it quieter than the surrounding ambient noise level. That is really what you are shooting for. Whenever you reduce the ambient noise level you are opening another can of worms because you can now hear rattles or squeeks you previously could not and the sound deadening cycle gets repeated.
Hope that makes sense.
PS.
The human ear is more sensitive to midrange frequencies and less sensitive to the extremes. A very high freq or a very low freq is going to be harder for us to hear even though it's amplitude is the same as the mid range freq. Think of the old EQ's where we had the smily faces. We always boosted the lows and highs.
It's easier to lower a panels resonant freq than it is to raise it. So even without an amplitude change, simply lowering the resonant frequency will make it quieter to our ears even though a sound meter will say otherwise.
Last edited by JasonWW; 08-16-2006 at 12:08 PM.
08-16-2006, 01:09 PM
#251
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A little sesame street in tone, but good info.
As I'm sure you know, English speakrs, at least native English speakers, rarely, if ever, speak in literal fashions. Instead we intuitively use sarcasm, hyperbole, metaphor, and other even more disconnected "figures of speech". So when I suggest stopping something from vibrating, that means within reason of course, not completely and totally. You'd have to pull all energy out of the matter and pack it slow close that not only do it's molecules stop moving, but that it's sub atomic particles stop moving. Clearly, not likely.
I really don't want to think about what this thing is going to weigh by the time I get done. (with everything I mean, stem to stern, all planned mods and additions) Ugh.
Especially when I think about my friends S-14 weighing only 2700lbs. argh! lol
As I'm sure you know, English speakrs, at least native English speakers, rarely, if ever, speak in literal fashions. Instead we intuitively use sarcasm, hyperbole, metaphor, and other even more disconnected "figures of speech". So when I suggest stopping something from vibrating, that means within reason of course, not completely and totally. You'd have to pull all energy out of the matter and pack it slow close that not only do it's molecules stop moving, but that it's sub atomic particles stop moving. Clearly, not likely.
I really don't want to think about what this thing is going to weigh by the time I get done. (with everything I mean, stem to stern, all planned mods and additions) Ugh.
Especially when I think about my friends S-14 weighing only 2700lbs. argh! lol
08-16-2006, 03:32 PM
#253
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Originally Posted by JasonWW
I don't know what that means.
Anyway, I was just rambling off the top of my head. I'm also trying to make it easy to understand.
Anyway, I was just rambling off the top of my head. I'm also trying to make it easy to understand.
The info is appreciated.
09-29-2006, 01:14 PM
#255
I've got the new stainless 49 strand cable, new sheath and finally the right design for crimps to make everything fit right, work right and be strong. I'm finally confident it can be made and work very well for a long time. All the parts I thought would be the easiest to find were the hardest and what I thought would be the hardest to find were the easiest. 
Anyone have any tips or parts ideas for extending the electrical or vacuum lines? I'm thinking they will be easy, but what do I know?
I'm finally going to put in that order for the 10.4" touch screen.
Once the new cable is all together and working I'll start a new thread on all the parts that work and don't work so you guys can have an easier time with it.
Anyone have any tips or parts ideas for extending the electrical or vacuum lines? I'm thinking they will be easy, but what do I know?
I'm finally going to put in that order for the 10.4" touch screen.
Once the new cable is all together and working I'll start a new thread on all the parts that work and don't work so you guys can have an easier time with it.
10-24-2006, 09:26 PM
#256
Well it took me a couple to hours to resize and crop pics and write it up, but here is Part 1 of the climate control relocation I've been talking about.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...60#post5756260
BTW, the Lilliput FA1042-NP/C/T LCD I ordered will not work in the TA do to the bad viewing angles of the screen. I'm currently looking for a new 10.4 to fit in there.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...60#post5756260
BTW, the Lilliput FA1042-NP/C/T LCD I ordered will not work in the TA do to the bad viewing angles of the screen. I'm currently looking for a new 10.4 to fit in there.
Last edited by JasonWW; 10-30-2006 at 02:08 PM.
10-30-2006, 02:09 PM
#257
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I totally got sidetracked in this project, but am still interested in one of my own.
Good to hear that you got an extension solution. Keep us posted on progress. I'd like to see the new screen and relcated controls.
Good to hear that you got an extension solution. Keep us posted on progress. I'd like to see the new screen and relcated controls.
11-12-2006, 09:40 PM
#258
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i think the press and hold hinge idea was the best (entertainment furniture)
and about your shifter problem, i don't really know how bad of a clearance issue it is, but you could get a slightly shorter shifter (flip down from top) or if the shifter would have to be to short. get a shifter arm that bends back (more towards the center console) but then you might have elbow clearance issues depending how you sit
and about your shifter problem, i don't really know how bad of a clearance issue it is, but you could get a slightly shorter shifter (flip down from top) or if the shifter would have to be to short. get a shifter arm that bends back (more towards the center console) but then you might have elbow clearance issues depending how you sit
