I have a 00 SS Convertible...I want to simply replace the door and sail speakers for better sound while keeping the Monsoon HU and Amp.

I have a pair of Infinity Kappa 2 ohm 63.7's three-way brand new. I've seen that the 62.7's work in the doors, but will the 3-ways work in the doors, or should I sell em and get some 62.7's. Is the crossover wiring in the Infinities as easy as in the Alpines that lotsa folks recommend.

What speakers should be in the sails and how do I wire em up? I've seen lots of info on T's and Hardtops, but not a thread devoted to convertibles.

Just need a definitive answer. I don't wanna rewire the car, put a new amp or subwoofer or HU in...just speakers that sound better than the Monsoons.

Sure appreciate any help. I've posted up on this one before without success , so I'm tryin one more time.

Thanks guys!

mudkat

 

I'm also interested in doing exactly the same thing - please post up and help us out!

 

1.) You have the 63.7's in hand... so what you need to do is look at the wiring in the back and see if you can send the factory low range signal to the woofer only and the factory high range signal prior to the crossovers, and feeding into the tweeter and midrange. It should be fairly obvious. If you are unsure you can send the various contacts a very low level signal to figure it out.

2.) In general, the 63.7's are probably overkill for the factory head unit and amp. The factory head unit is actually pretty bad. Lots of the high volume distortion comes from the head unit - not the amp. If you are totally flexible with exchanges then I would maybe keep the 63.7's for the front, but they are totally unnecessary in the back.

3.) In the back, you are going to need spacers. Alpine SP107's need about a 1/2" spacer. Compare them spec wise and go from there. No spacer = broken speaker / damaged top mechanism the first time you drop the top. I couldn't find good ready to use spacers and ended up making them. The common ones available at crutchfield and the like are more made as adapter plates, aren't thick enough, and aren't solid enough. Plan on making your own spacers, and get some dynamat type of material to use as a gasket on the spacer. You'll also need longer screws of course, in my case the screws that came with the SP170's were fine, actually a little too long. You don't want to use a silly long screw in the back, because they tap through the metal and the points end up where the top is stored. So if they are too long, maybe 1/2" or more through the sheet metal, it would be possible for the actual top cloth to get snagged, caught, or tore. Bad news again.

Take your time, it's not complicated, but you don't want to rush the backs.

 

Thanks for the detailed instructions!!!! Excellent! You made my day!

So, am I correct that 2-ohm is the way to go with the speakers with the wiring from the amp running the low and the wiring from the HU running the hi range?

Should I see a marked improvement over the stock monsoons? I only have 2 of the 63.7's so I'll take a look and see if they'll work for the front.

Thanks again for your help!

 

well if i were you id get a new amp, the monsoon amp is garbage.

 

Thanks for telling us what we all know , but what we really want to know is about the speaker swap. I wanna keep my SS as stock as possible and it is a convertible, so why go and throw money at something that's just gonna be stolen?

kat

 

Actually in Camaro convertible monsoon systems... there are 8 speakers.

-front tweeters x2 at 2 ohms
-front woofers x2 at 4 ohms
-rear tweeters x2 at 4 ohms
-rear woofers x2 at 4 ohms

And regardless of what people say, the monsoon amp is actually pretty good when compared to head unit power...

In verts... everything is driven off the amp. H/U feeds four high level inputs into the monsoon amp... monsoon amp feeds 8 channels of power to the drivers. The weak point is the h/u puts out too much distortion at high volume.. and the factory speakers are very bad both for treble, bass, and bottoming out/distorting.

So it is actually only proper to put 2 ohm woofers into the front doors, and I can tell you, it isn't necessary at all.

When I did my system install in my Z28 convertible... I did it somewhat incrementally as I have limited time.

1.) Day one was a full factory monsoon system.
2.) The first stage I put bi-wired SP170's into the doors. This provided a huge treble and clarity boost, but no real bass improvement. The 4 ohm drivers did not appear to drop SPL at all to me, though more volume **** was required to get the fronts loud, the top end level remained much the same. I just had to put the fader to the front a little. I think the 4ohm speakers saw less power, but also handled that power without distortion better than factory... so it was a wash bass-wise.
3.) Stage two I put another pair of SP170's in the back, again biwired. This helped everything across the board just a little. But you gain no bass because the backs pretty much don't have an enclosure. Only do this if you like rear fill or are a treble head.
4.) Stage three I replaced the factory head unit with a Kenwood unit, using a standard metra harness and sending the Kenwoods 20watt signals to the monsoon amp. This jump, was VERY impressive. Much more than I had originally thought. Even using the Monsoon amp... it was really very strong. I have no doubt at all that the monsoon amp was putting out more power than even a premium head unit. I figure the monsoon amp is probably good for an honest 25 w/rms... maybe 50 peak. I have heard plenty of head unit powered systems and the monsoon amp was much stronger. Honestly at this stage I think 99% of people would be very happy, and at that point I had less than $300 in it for the head unit and 4x alpines.
5.) Stage 4 I wired up an Alpine V12 357 amplifier... which is a 5 channel that puts out 50x4 and 150x1. I had to correct my apline wiring at this point so the amp saw normal 4 ohm coaxials. This of course, was another very big jump, because now I had crossover controls to cut low bass from the Alpines, and a very good jump in power and clarity. I agree that a good aftermarket amp is better than the monsoon, but I think many people would be hard pressed to justify the cost of a $200 or so 4 channel amp, wiring, and time. Those who dismiss the monsoon amp as "junk" have not heard it fed a good signal, driving good speakers. I would say unless you are going to replace it with a high quality, 50watt rms channel amp... don't bother.
6.) Stage 5 I installed a JB slim sub box with 4x 8" RF stage one subs wired to 4 ohms powered off the 5th channel off the apline amp. The subs are not being pushed to their limits but the sound is very balanced, and can play to very good volume levels, hits quite hard. Top up I have bass equivalent to a couple 10's in a hatchback. Top down I have equivalent to about 1 10" in a hatchback. Not bad and inline with my goals. Bass is hard as helll to get in a vert.

I am considering bumping up power to the subs in the spring... picked up a Orion extreme 375 amp for $50 off eBay...

That's my stereo life story.

 

Thanks, just one question. The SPS170's...did you go with 2ohm in front and 4 ohm in rear, or 2 ohm all the way around. Great info. This is going to help a lot of folks!!!

I'm gonna try stage 1 with the Kappa's and see how it sounds. Then maybe do stage 2 if I feel like I need more, but if I'm not gonna get a bass boost, it doesn't seem necessary unless the Monsoon speakers get toasted.

Awesome info. Thanks again!

mudkat

 

The alpines are 4 ohm rated coaxials. What really matters is the woofer... but I suspect when bi-wired you are presenting basically a 4 ohm woofer and a 4 ohm tweeter.

There isn't a 2 ohm version to my knowledge.

People really worry about it too much. It doesn't matter in convertibles.

It might matter a little bit if you are trying to eek out every last bit from the monsoon amp, but regardless 4 ohm aftermarkets are still a big improvement.

 

Thanks again Todd,

I'm gonna try the Kappa 2 ohms in the doors. See any issues with that if they are bi-wired?

Marty

 

Don't get so wrapped up over whether a speaker is 2 ohm or 4 ohm. That is not necessarily indicative of how loud it is going to be. And says nothing abut it's sound quality.

For me, since I've kept the stock Monsoon HU/amp, what I want is something I can hear loud and clear at low to mid volume settings. So having an efficient speaker is key.

I believe speaker efficiency (or sensitivity) is a more important spec than impedance. Since it measures actual sound power level at 1 meter with a specified input. Of course you need to know what the specified input is to make the best choice.

For example, let's look at the specs for the Infinity KAPPA 62.7's and the Alpine SPS-170A's. The Kappa's list a sensitivity rating of 95dB. The Alpines are rated at 92dB. Looking at the raw numbers, one would be led to believe that the Kappa's are 3dB louder than the Alpines.

But if you look on the MFR websites, the Kappa spec is based on 2.83V at 1 meter. Whereas the Alpine rating is based on 1 watt at 1 meter. Since P=(V^2)/R, 2.83V accross the 2 ohm Kappas equals 4 watts. This is 4 times the power the Alpines are measured at. IF the Kappa's produce 95dB at 4W/1M, then it follows that they would produce 89dB at 1W/1M. Based on this, one would expect the Alpines to be 3dB louder at the same power level.

Of course, the volume control varies the voltage to the speaker, not the power, per se. So doing some more math, we find that it takes 2.0V to drive 1W thru a 4 ohm speaker. Compared to 1.41V to drive 1W thru a 2 ohm speaker. 2.0V would drive 2W thru a 2 ohm speaker, such as the Kappas. Using these calculations, we see that at 2.0V both the Kappas and the Alpines should produce about 92dB of SPL at 1 meter.

Conclusion: Theoretically, the Kappas and the Alpines should be equally as loud at the same volume settings. Even though one is 2 ohm and other 4 ohm.

Since I don't have numbers on the stock speakers, but I do have the Alpines in my SS. I believe they are equally as loud as the stock speakers to my ears. And the sound quality noticeably better. I've never heard the Kappas, so I can't say for sure which speaker is the better choice. Or whether my calculations draw an accurate picture.

My point here is simple: Just because the stock Monsoon woofers are 2 ohm, does not necessarily mean you have to replace them with other 2 ohm speakers.

Honestly, I chose the Alpine SPS-170A's simply because they were the speakers recommended in the stickies. I've only started looking deeper into the numbers for replacement speaker choices because there is no clear consensus for the Camaro sail panel subs.

 

imho a good quality 4 ohm will sound just as good as a 2 ohm when using the monsoon amp.

2 ohm drivers become very important with comp quality amps... when the difference between a 4 ohm sub and a 2 ohm sub could be going from 100rms to 300rms with good amps.

but for us, we are talking about a monsoon amp that is maybe 30rms / 60 peak at 2 ohms. Even if you figure it is only 20rms / 40 peak at 4 ohms or less, well, that's not really that much difference with how power scales to volume.

I can tell you that driving SP170's it sounds to me like the woofers are seeing about 25-30 watts rms.

Given how volume and sensitivity works, there really isn't that much of a functional difference between 2 and 4 ohms at these low power levels.

If I HAD to replace coupe sail panel woofers, personally I'd just open the mount up to 8" and drop in a low cost 8" sub like RF stage 1's.

But in reality I'd never do that cause I'd just as well put caps on the factory "subs" and use a bazooka tube or stealthbox type of sub.

 

It's my understanding that in the Verts the sails are also full range speakers. Unlike the midbass drivers in coupes. Personnally, I'd probably use SPS-170A's all around or some other full range speaker.

 

Coupes - midbass / subs in the sails with 4x6 plates for mids/highs in the hatch panels

Verts - 6.5" full-range woofer/tweeter both at 4-ohms. The factory PN's are different door to sail panel. They are very "tight" to prevent bottoming out as there is really no enclosure. So in a factory system the rears make no real bass. Replacing them with SP170's will add a little mid-bass.