Do I need a cap. ?
Originally Posted by CamaroSS615
Butta Bing Butta Bang Blang Blang all in ya face! For you that dont know! Why do the REAL car audio ethus. use them?? Answer that one for me!!
http://www.audioinstalls.com/126
http://www.audioinstalls.com/106
http://www.audioinstalls.com/64
http://www.audioinstalls.com/126
http://www.audioinstalls.com/106
http://www.audioinstalls.com/64
Damn, it's amazing how many people get brain washed these days. 
You got to admit, they do look good. 
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 717
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From: Georgetown, DE
As an electrical engineer, I wouldn't run an aftermarket system above 600W without one. The surging currents caused by the stereo system is not going to kill your alternator right away, but will shorten the life. Battery should not be an issue because it's not supposed to do anything except start the car's engine.
Originally Posted by HiTechGent
As an electrical engineer, I wouldn't run an aftermarket system above 600W without one. The surging currents caused by the stereo system is not going to kill your alternator right away, but will shorten the life. Battery should not be an issue because it's not supposed to do anything except start the car's engine.
how can the relatively small storage capacity of a cap make a hill of beans difference on whether or not you shorten the life of your alternator ? I will agree that it can help with dimming head lights, but if you are taxing your alternator to the point of damaging it, I don't think a little storage cap is going to buy you much time.
mike
Launching!
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From: Nash-Vegas
Originally Posted by HiTechGent
As an electrical engineer, I wouldn't run an aftermarket system above 600W without one. The surging currents caused by the stereo system is not going to kill your alternator right away, but will shorten the life. Battery should not be an issue because it's not supposed to do anything except start the car's engine.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
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From: Nash-Vegas
Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
how can the relatively small storage capacity of a cap make a hill of beans difference on whether or not you shorten the life of your alternator ? I will agree that it can help with dimming head lights, but if you are taxing your alternator to the point of damaging it, I don't think a little storage cap is going to buy you much time.
mike
mike
Launching!
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From: Nash-Vegas
Originally Posted by wickedwarlock
Damn, it's amazing how many people get brain washed these days. You got to admit, they do look good. so I'll sit back and have 
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Originally Posted by CamaroSS615
Because I used one and know, my buddies without one were replacing alternators like crazy, do you know how many I replaced??? None. Your alternator is having a hard enough time supporting the cars electrical system, you can only imagne how much strain a 1000 watt amplifer is adding. So you cap doubters, well you all can keep replacing alternators.
wouldn't it be better to get an upgraded alternator, then to band-aid your electrical system with a cap ?
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
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From: Nash-Vegas
You could get a bigger alternator with more amp power than stock, but with a high powered car stereo I would still add the cap, I just like knowing the fact that the alternator has the cap backing it up. Its always better to be safe than sorry. Mike, you said you are pushing 2800 watts, and I dident mean to doubt you there, I just cant imagine running that many watts without a cap and not having issues with the cars charging system.
I used to run caps.. Like most people, it was explained to me that they help with the extra load, and I believed it. Heck, who was I to question these experts. I had a 1200 watt system, and I bought a 1 farad cap to go with it.
Then, I updraded to a about a 2500 watt system, and I got a 5 farad cap, again, under recommendations of local shop experts.
Then, I started my partnership with JBL. I swapped out all of my old amps to new JBL power series amps. After discussing my install with experts at JBL, they suggested I can the cap, claiming I would realize very little, if any benefit with my system.
It's a very contested subject, for every high end sound system that uses caps, I think I can show an almost equal amount that do not.
When you look at high end competition vehicles, you have to take what they've done in context. Some things are done simply for wow factor, or to gain extra creativity or enhancement points. Even in my own competition car, I've done things that I would never bother to do for a regular system in a car, since the cost out-weighs the benefits.
Then, I updraded to a about a 2500 watt system, and I got a 5 farad cap, again, under recommendations of local shop experts.
Then, I started my partnership with JBL. I swapped out all of my old amps to new JBL power series amps. After discussing my install with experts at JBL, they suggested I can the cap, claiming I would realize very little, if any benefit with my system.
It's a very contested subject, for every high end sound system that uses caps, I think I can show an almost equal amount that do not.
When you look at high end competition vehicles, you have to take what they've done in context. Some things are done simply for wow factor, or to gain extra creativity or enhancement points. Even in my own competition car, I've done things that I would never bother to do for a regular system in a car, since the cost out-weighs the benefits.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
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From: Nash-Vegas
What is your set-up if you dont mine me asking?
Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
I used to run caps.. Like most people, it was explained to me that they help with the extra load, and I believed it. Heck, who was I to question these experts. I had a 1200 watt system, and I bought a 1 farad cap to go with it.
Then, I updraded to a about a 2500 watt system, and I got a 5 farad cap, again, under recommendations of local shop experts.
Then, I started my partnership with JBL. I swapped out all of my old amps to new JBL power series amps. After discussing my install with experts at JBL, they suggested I can the cap, claiming I would realize very little, if any benefit with my system.
It's a very contested subject, for every high end sound system that uses caps, I think I can show an almost equal amount that do not.
When you look at high end competition vehicles, you have to take what they've done in context. Some things are done simply for wow factor, or to gain extra creativity or enhancement points. Even in my own competition car, I've done things that I would never bother to do for a regular system in a car, since the cost out-weighs the benefits.
Then, I updraded to a about a 2500 watt system, and I got a 5 farad cap, again, under recommendations of local shop experts.
Then, I started my partnership with JBL. I swapped out all of my old amps to new JBL power series amps. After discussing my install with experts at JBL, they suggested I can the cap, claiming I would realize very little, if any benefit with my system.
It's a very contested subject, for every high end sound system that uses caps, I think I can show an almost equal amount that do not.
When you look at high end competition vehicles, you have to take what they've done in context. Some things are done simply for wow factor, or to gain extra creativity or enhancement points. Even in my own competition car, I've done things that I would never bother to do for a regular system in a car, since the cost out-weighs the benefits.
here's last years setup:
http://www.djsexay.com/system05.html
and here is a sneek peak at what's in store for next season.
http://www.djsexay.com/gallery/hawk06
http://www.djsexay.com/system05.html
and here is a sneek peak at what's in store for next season.
http://www.djsexay.com/gallery/hawk06
Just to add one thing, that despite the 10 farad Batcap, my lights still dim when the idle falls (i.e. shifting, etc). Mind you not all the time, but probably b/c of the strain on the system (A/C running) and when the cap requires recharging. My alternator light acts very strangely! 13 amps, but then will jump up to 14-16. (If you trust the accuracy of the guages).
Even still, I cannot complain about the dual setup (red top and cap) and its performance. As a general rule, I was told 1 farad for each 1000w, but whether this was an accurate statement or a "sales pitch", I cannot confirm.
However, I did have the alternator checked out last year.....105 amp alternator charging at 108 amps if I remember correctly, so that just tells me I am pulling a heavier load at certain times than others. TRUE? BTW, I am running 1200w (4ohm SPL subs w/300w A/B amp feeding each 10"), and (2) 300w 4channels biamped into both front/rear speakers.
Even still, I cannot complain about the dual setup (red top and cap) and its performance. As a general rule, I was told 1 farad for each 1000w, but whether this was an accurate statement or a "sales pitch", I cannot confirm.
However, I did have the alternator checked out last year.....105 amp alternator charging at 108 amps if I remember correctly, so that just tells me I am pulling a heavier load at certain times than others. TRUE? BTW, I am running 1200w (4ohm SPL subs w/300w A/B amp feeding each 10"), and (2) 300w 4channels biamped into both front/rear speakers.
Last edited by Firehawk526; Jul 21, 2006 at 07:25 PM.
Originally Posted by HiTechGent
As an electrical engineer, I wouldn't run an aftermarket system above 600W without one. The surging currents caused by the stereo system is not going to kill your alternator right away, but will shorten the life. Battery should not be an issue because it's not supposed to do anything except start the car's engine.
suppling more power is the issue. I will say it again
, if you can't keep the battery charged, you can't charge the cap too, period. And look up deep cycle batteries on load bearing, it's different than a tradional battery. When is the last time you had electronics lab. You can't store energy you don't have, period.
I can't beleive you commented on that. There's in no point in ever having a cap now since deep cycle batteries were intruduced to car audio.edit: almost forgot, a deep cycle battery will provide constant power no matter how much you draw until there's no power left. A cap won't provide that if there's no power left and it can't charge the cap if it can't charge the battery, so now there's more strain as I said before. You now created another problem instead of a solution.
Last edited by wickedwarlock; Jul 21, 2006 at 10:26 PM.
Originally Posted by CamaroSS615
Not brain washed, I was just throwing it your face, I knew that would **** you off so I'll sit back and have smile!!
so I'll sit back and have smile!!Edit: Show us your setup. This is probably my tenth setup or more. My 3rd or 4th high powered system over 2500 watts rms and my first over 3500rms. I have tried it all just like Mike. Caps don't do anything unless your scoring on looks which some shows do and some classes do. I'm interested to see what your running.
Last edited by wickedwarlock; Jul 21, 2006 at 10:32 PM.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by wickedwarlock
As an electrical engineer, if there's power problems, adding a cap doesn't resolve it.
capacitors do have very good positives to them as well if used in the correct situation, especially if the amp does not have "sufficient" capacitance in the first place. unlike batteries, widely available capacitors typically have higher ESR/ESL when compared to their respective storage capabilities. almost any product branded as a "stiffening" capacitor will cost you way more than you should pay and will have detrimental resistance and inductance in line. a good choice is getting few of these guys wired in parallel:
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?hand...oductid=296516
if you think that a capacitor does nothing, well, i can only say that you may not be familiar with the laws of physics. as i mentioned, a capacitor will provide minor and temporary assistance if the current is not readily available; it is not your solution, but it is an assistance. if the current is readily available, then a capacitor can be very helpful.
fyi, i'm one guy who could care less how many systems you say you have had on the internet
caps = lame... everyone knows it... the "pros" dont use caps last time i checked the pro's were using tons of batteries and multipul ho alt's...and for daily systems most seem to be running at most a ho alt and two batteries. usually one... but hey i dont know anything like the others im just a random guy on the net... if you wanna run caps n crap then have fun doing your audiobahn systems...
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by WantedRawb
caps = lame... everyone knows it... the "pros" dont use caps last time i checked the pro's were using tons of batteries and multipul ho alt's...and for daily systems most seem to be running at most a ho alt and two batteries. usually one... but hey i dont know anything like the others im just a random guy on the net... if you wanna run caps n crap then have fun doing your audiobahn systems...
maybe not in spl competitions.
in sq competitions, different story.
Originally Posted by Punk0Rama
"the pros don't use caps"
maybe not in spl competitions.
in sq competitions, different story.
maybe not in spl competitions.
in sq competitions, different story.
not really.. I'd say it's split down the middle.
What is popular on the competition circuit these days are the BatCaps... But they are not like traditional caps, they're more like batteries with really fast discharge and recharge rates. In fact, the larger ones have enough cranking amps to be used as a starting battery.
But as for traditional caps, I would not say their use in pro level competition is as wide spread as it used to be.
mike