which way should i go?
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On The Tree
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From: Lawrenceville, GA
which way should i go? I have a completely stock system in my 2001 Camaro coupe. But yesterday, my JL Audio 6w0's arrived and I installed them. Man, they sound good, but the volume was pretty low since they are 4 ohm. Low enough to the point that the system as a whole was now missing bass. When I adjusted the volume to try and hear the subs, whoops, I blew out the front and rear speakers, haha. Weaksauce. So now, after reading all the threads and stuff, I need help deciding what to do.
I can get Alpine SPS-170A speakers for $75 shipped online, thinking about putting them into the doors, and then 4" Alpines in the rear? I saw some other cheaper ones. I was thinking since those speakers are 4-ohm as well, that they'd have the same volume reduction as the subs and then they'll all sound fine haha... Or not? If I put all 4-ohm speakers in, is there an easy way to replace the factory amp? I was thinking a 6-channel amp using a PAC OEM-1 connector?
I think I can also get Infinity Kappas (the 2-ohm ones) from a local seller for $90. If I do this, I'd probably have to wire up an amp to drive the two 6w0's in the sail panel? I already have a Rockford Fosgate Punch 250 A2 from my friend's old car that I can have. I looked up the specs and it says 62.5 watts on 2 channels at 4 ohms - sounds about right since the 6w0's are labelled with "75W" on the back. But I am not sure how to wire up the second amp. I'd probably put it on the opposite cubby hole with wires running in the tail panel to keep the trunk area clean... but not sure what to do to get it wired up with the rest of the system....
What do you guys think? Any advice? Thanks
I can get Alpine SPS-170A speakers for $75 shipped online, thinking about putting them into the doors, and then 4" Alpines in the rear? I saw some other cheaper ones. I was thinking since those speakers are 4-ohm as well, that they'd have the same volume reduction as the subs and then they'll all sound fine haha... Or not? If I put all 4-ohm speakers in, is there an easy way to replace the factory amp? I was thinking a 6-channel amp using a PAC OEM-1 connector?
I think I can also get Infinity Kappas (the 2-ohm ones) from a local seller for $90. If I do this, I'd probably have to wire up an amp to drive the two 6w0's in the sail panel? I already have a Rockford Fosgate Punch 250 A2 from my friend's old car that I can have. I looked up the specs and it says 62.5 watts on 2 channels at 4 ohms - sounds about right since the 6w0's are labelled with "75W" on the back. But I am not sure how to wire up the second amp. I'd probably put it on the opposite cubby hole with wires running in the tail panel to keep the trunk area clean... but not sure what to do to get it wired up with the rest of the system....
What do you guys think? Any advice? Thanks
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Lawrenceville, GA
I talked to a local shop about mounting my amplifier to drive the subs. They quoted me $85 to completely install and wire up a second amp... Does this sound like a good price? They also have some Alpine SPS-17c2(?) for 99, and some RF Punchspeakers for the doors for about the same price... any suggestions?
It's not hard to screw and amp to a box and hide some wires. I'd do it myself if I was you. I did mine completely by myself. Also just cause they are 4 ohm doesn't mean anything. Are they strictly 4 ohm are can they go 2 ohm stable. If they are only 4 ohm I hope you have them hooked up series style cause parallel isn't for 4 ohm speakers. Also if your looking for sound, door speakers really don't do it over bass. You'll need some tweeters. I dunno if they are good prices for those speakers but they probably are retail, I get all my stuff at wholesale cause I got a few friends that have dealerships for car audio. 
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
I'm not sure what he was trying to say because we're talking about speakers and terms like "stable" and "parallel" are applied to amps and wiring configurations.
Anyway, volume reduction depends on a couple of factors - the impedance and the efficiency of the speakers. Doubling the impedance with the same efficiency will essentially cut the volume in half. However, there are very few decent aftermarket speakers that aren't more efficient than the factory ones so the volume reduction is considerably less. Unfortunately, the 6W0 subs are not particularly efficient (subs usually aren't) at 82dB so it's going to be difficult to compensate. You could install the Alpines in the doors and that would balance the impedance load and make the front and rear sound closer to the same volume but you'll still have to adjust the fader and tone controls to get a good balance. Adding an additional amp to power the subs would give you better control over the output and more punch to your bass.
If you decide to replace the door speakers bear in mind that they are actually separate components even though they are mounted like a coax speaker. You should consider modifying the Alpines to allow you to wire the tweeters separately from the woofers.
Anyway, volume reduction depends on a couple of factors - the impedance and the efficiency of the speakers. Doubling the impedance with the same efficiency will essentially cut the volume in half. However, there are very few decent aftermarket speakers that aren't more efficient than the factory ones so the volume reduction is considerably less. Unfortunately, the 6W0 subs are not particularly efficient (subs usually aren't) at 82dB so it's going to be difficult to compensate. You could install the Alpines in the doors and that would balance the impedance load and make the front and rear sound closer to the same volume but you'll still have to adjust the fader and tone controls to get a good balance. Adding an additional amp to power the subs would give you better control over the output and more punch to your bass.
If you decide to replace the door speakers bear in mind that they are actually separate components even though they are mounted like a coax speaker. You should consider modifying the Alpines to allow you to wire the tweeters separately from the woofers.
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On The Tree
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From: Lawrenceville, GA
balance the impendance load? it sounds like changine one set of speakers affects the rest? i think i'm just going to have the shop install the amp, $85 isn't too bad. it's either $85 and an hour or two of my time, or an entire afternoon and i'll probably spend just as much for a sloppier job. I might end up paying extra since i want them to mount it in the passenger side cubby area if it won't fit next to the delco amp. about the fader control... i thought the sail panels stayed the same volume and the fader only affects the door panels and hatch panels? at least that's how it was when i got the car...
i was trying to pick the alpine sps-170a based on what i read here... but as there is nothing but rattling noises coming out of the doors right now i think i'm not willing to wait a week or more to get these speakers in the snail mail. someone locally has infinity kappas 63.7i for sale, i will probably pick one up tomorrow if i can find some time. he is selling extra sets, and already has one set in his car. i can probably just ask him how he did his?
i was trying to pick the alpine sps-170a based on what i read here... but as there is nothing but rattling noises coming out of the doors right now i think i'm not willing to wait a week or more to get these speakers in the snail mail. someone locally has infinity kappas 63.7i for sale, i will probably pick one up tomorrow if i can find some time. he is selling extra sets, and already has one set in his car. i can probably just ask him how he did his?
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
I'm not sure what he was trying to say because we're talking about speakers and terms like "stable" and "parallel" are applied to amps and wiring configurations.
Anyway, volume reduction depends on a couple of factors - the impedance and the efficiency of the speakers. Doubling the impedance with the same efficiency will essentially cut the volume in half. However, there are very few decent aftermarket speakers that aren't more efficient than the factory ones so the volume reduction is considerably less. Unfortunately, the 6W0 subs are not particularly efficient (subs usually aren't) at 82dB so it's going to be difficult to compensate. You could install the Alpines in the doors and that would balance the impedance load and make the front and rear sound closer to the same volume but you'll still have to adjust the fader and tone controls to get a good balance. Adding an additional amp to power the subs would give you better control over the output and more punch to your bass.
If you decide to replace the door speakers bear in mind that they are actually separate components even though they are mounted like a coax speaker. You should consider modifying the Alpines to allow you to wire the tweeters separately from the woofers.
Anyway, volume reduction depends on a couple of factors - the impedance and the efficiency of the speakers. Doubling the impedance with the same efficiency will essentially cut the volume in half. However, there are very few decent aftermarket speakers that aren't more efficient than the factory ones so the volume reduction is considerably less. Unfortunately, the 6W0 subs are not particularly efficient (subs usually aren't) at 82dB so it's going to be difficult to compensate. You could install the Alpines in the doors and that would balance the impedance load and make the front and rear sound closer to the same volume but you'll still have to adjust the fader and tone controls to get a good balance. Adding an additional amp to power the subs would give you better control over the output and more punch to your bass.
If you decide to replace the door speakers bear in mind that they are actually separate components even though they are mounted like a coax speaker. You should consider modifying the Alpines to allow you to wire the tweeters separately from the woofers.
Series and parallel are how you wire your subs...
Series = 4 ohm
Parallel = 2 ohm
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by burningsquirrels
balance the impendance load? it sounds like changine one set of speakers affects the rest?
Originally Posted by burningsquirrels
i think i'm just going to have the shop install the amp, $85 isn't too bad. it's either $85 and an hour or two of my time, or an entire afternoon and i'll probably spend just as much for a sloppier job. I might end up paying extra since i want them to mount it in the passenger side cubby area if it won't fit next to the delco amp.
Originally Posted by burningsquirrels
about the fader control... i thought the sail panels stayed the same volume and the fader only affects the door panels and hatch panels? at least that's how it was when i got the car...
Originally Posted by burningsquirrels
i was trying to pick the alpine sps-170a based on what i read here... but as there is nothing but rattling noises coming out of the doors right now i think i'm not willing to wait a week or more to get these speakers in the snail mail. someone locally has infinity kappas 63.7i for sale, i will probably pick one up tomorrow if i can find some time. he is selling extra sets, and already has one set in his car. i can probably just ask him how he did his?
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by Craiggg
Series and parallel are how you wire your subs...
Series = 4 ohm
Parallel = 2 ohm
Series = 4 ohm
Parallel = 2 ohm
Besides, your figures are only half correct. Two 4-ohm speakers (or subs) wired in parallel produce a 2-ohm load but two 4-ohm speakers wired in series produce 8-ohms impedance.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Lawrenceville, GA
The seller states that the speakers have an external crossover... The crossover can be affixed inside the door with double sided emblem adhesive and I would just use the amp signal and just discard the tweeter wires.... Sound right? He says that's how he has them hooked up.
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Why not hook up the woofers and tweeters separately like the stock configuration since you have easy access to the tweeter wires at the crossover? No point in giving up treble in the front if you don't have to.
Ditch the whole stinking system and start over! Get a 4 channel amp, bridge for the sub and run your RAF off the head unit. Or if your cross overs comes with RAF ports use them. The stock stuff isnt that good including the amp. Trying to peice together a decent sysytem using the current componants to me presents more of a challenge than its worth and in the end it wont sound as good anyway my .02
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On The Tree
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From: Lawrenceville, GA
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
I'm not sure what he was trying to say because we're talking about speakers and terms like "stable" and "parallel" are applied to amps and wiring configurations.
Anyway, volume reduction depends on a couple of factors - the impedance and the efficiency of the speakers. Doubling the impedance with the same efficiency will essentially cut the volume in half. However, there are very few decent aftermarket speakers that aren't more efficient than the factory ones so the volume reduction is considerably less. Unfortunately, the 6W0 subs are not particularly efficient (subs usually aren't) at 82dB so it's going to be difficult to compensate. You could install the Alpines in the doors and that would balance the impedance load and make the front and rear sound closer to the same volume but you'll still have to adjust the fader and tone controls to get a good balance. Adding an additional amp to power the subs would give you better control over the output and more punch to your bass.
If you decide to replace the door speakers bear in mind that they are actually separate components even though they are mounted like a coax speaker. You should consider modifying the Alpines to allow you to wire the tweeters separately from the woofers.
Anyway, volume reduction depends on a couple of factors - the impedance and the efficiency of the speakers. Doubling the impedance with the same efficiency will essentially cut the volume in half. However, there are very few decent aftermarket speakers that aren't more efficient than the factory ones so the volume reduction is considerably less. Unfortunately, the 6W0 subs are not particularly efficient (subs usually aren't) at 82dB so it's going to be difficult to compensate. You could install the Alpines in the doors and that would balance the impedance load and make the front and rear sound closer to the same volume but you'll still have to adjust the fader and tone controls to get a good balance. Adding an additional amp to power the subs would give you better control over the output and more punch to your bass.
If you decide to replace the door speakers bear in mind that they are actually separate components even though they are mounted like a coax speaker. You should consider modifying the Alpines to allow you to wire the tweeters separately from the woofers.
I just installed the 6w0's yesterday with an old-style smaller rockford punch 250 amplifier, using a PAC OEM-1 for provide the RCAs. They sound a lot better now, I just have to finish up the install. Not bad for around $180 installed. When I left off last night, I had just powered them on and they were making plenty of bass, but they were rattling. I think They are hitting the clips on the opening in the sail panel or maybe a wire is vibrating somewhere.
I think I saw newer Alpines, SCS-17C2? The audio shop has them and the tweeter wires run up the back of the speaker, so it looks like it'd be pretty easy to seperate out those wires. I saw how much the component style speakers cost where they are already wired seperately... Ouch is all I have to say, lol...
All in all I think I'm walking out the door under $250 for everything installed after I get the Alpines. I've got maybe 8 hours so far for a first time install. I had stupid problems like early nightfall, rain, and one side post battery bolt snapping in half that didn't help, rofl.
Originally Posted by burningsquirrels
I just installed the 6w0's yesterday with an old-style smaller rockford punch 250 amplifier, using a PAC OEM-1 for provide the RCAs. They sound a lot better now, I just have to finish up the install. Not bad for around $180 installed. When I left off last night, I had just powered them on and they were making plenty of bass, but they were rattling. I think They are hitting the clips on the opening in the sail panel or maybe a wire is vibrating somewhere.
I think I saw newer Alpines, SCS-17C2? The audio shop has them and the tweeter wires run up the back of the speaker, so it looks like it'd be pretty easy to seperate out those wires. I saw how much the component style speakers cost where they are already wired seperately... Ouch is all I have to say, lol...
All in all I think I'm walking out the door under $250 for everything installed after I get the Alpines. I've got maybe 8 hours so far for a first time install. I had stupid problems like early nightfall, rain, and one side post battery bolt snapping in half that didn't help, rofl.
I think I saw newer Alpines, SCS-17C2? The audio shop has them and the tweeter wires run up the back of the speaker, so it looks like it'd be pretty easy to seperate out those wires. I saw how much the component style speakers cost where they are already wired seperately... Ouch is all I have to say, lol...
All in all I think I'm walking out the door under $250 for everything installed after I get the Alpines. I've got maybe 8 hours so far for a first time install. I had stupid problems like early nightfall, rain, and one side post battery bolt snapping in half that didn't help, rofl.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Lawrenceville, GA
I might look that up, $140 isn't that bad. I was trying to do all this on a budget, but like any project, it has already tripled in cost before completion. 
Originally I got the 6w0's after reading that one long thread about people with RFP subs and how the 6w0 is also a good choice... Sounded like a $100ish project. I installed those and then because of the volume difference I turned it up and blew out the door speakers
... Now I got the amp and install kit and installed that and that's where I'm at. I was thinking of following the '$100 improvement' article where they used the Alpine SPS-170a speakers but they're not as plentiful as the other SPS-17C2s.
Those Alpine SPR-17LS look like they can mount the tweeters coaxially, yes? I haven't taken the door panels off yet but I hope there is no clearance problem with the tweeter? I really don't want to drill a tweeter mount in my door...
Originally I got the 6w0's after reading that one long thread about people with RFP subs and how the 6w0 is also a good choice... Sounded like a $100ish project. I installed those and then because of the volume difference I turned it up and blew out the door speakers
... Now I got the amp and install kit and installed that and that's where I'm at. I was thinking of following the '$100 improvement' article where they used the Alpine SPS-170a speakers but they're not as plentiful as the other SPS-17C2s.Those Alpine SPR-17LS look like they can mount the tweeters coaxially, yes? I haven't taken the door panels off yet but I hope there is no clearance problem with the tweeter? I really don't want to drill a tweeter mount in my door...
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From: Georgetown, DE
Glad you got thinks worked out.
Contrary to what Craiggg thinks, the reason your JL's needed another amplifier was because they are not very efficient speakers (sensitivity: 81dB/W/m). Not because they they were 4 ohmspeakers. JL states that they require a minimum of 30Wrms to work. The most you'll ever get out of the Monsoon system is probably 50Wrms.
This is not to say that the 6W0's are a bad speaker, just not a good choice for a direct drop-in replacement for the Monsoon system. They are designed as true subwoofers. While the sail panel speakers are erroneously called subs, they are not.
There are 4 ohm speakers out there that will produce sound equal to the 2 ohm stockers with the same input level. The Alpine SPS-17C2's do, as well as my Pioneer TS-M7PRS midbasses I have in my sails (both have a sensitivity of 92dB/W/m).
Do yourself a favor and drop in a pair reasonably priced 4" coaxial speakers in the rear hatch area. Unlike the T/A setup, Camaros don't have a tweeter back there. THe addition of one is noticable. I'd recommend Alpine SPS-10C2.
Contrary to what Craiggg thinks, the reason your JL's needed another amplifier was because they are not very efficient speakers (sensitivity: 81dB/W/m). Not because they they were 4 ohmspeakers. JL states that they require a minimum of 30Wrms to work. The most you'll ever get out of the Monsoon system is probably 50Wrms.
This is not to say that the 6W0's are a bad speaker, just not a good choice for a direct drop-in replacement for the Monsoon system. They are designed as true subwoofers. While the sail panel speakers are erroneously called subs, they are not.
There are 4 ohm speakers out there that will produce sound equal to the 2 ohm stockers with the same input level. The Alpine SPS-17C2's do, as well as my Pioneer TS-M7PRS midbasses I have in my sails (both have a sensitivity of 92dB/W/m).
Do yourself a favor and drop in a pair reasonably priced 4" coaxial speakers in the rear hatch area. Unlike the T/A setup, Camaros don't have a tweeter back there. THe addition of one is noticable. I'd recommend Alpine SPS-10C2.
Originally Posted by HiTechGent
Glad you got thinks worked out.
Contrary to what Craiggg thinks, the reason your JL's needed another amplifier was because they are not very efficient speakers (sensitivity: 81dB/W/m). Not because they they were 4 ohmspeakers. JL states that they require a minimum of 30Wrms to work. The most you'll ever get out of the Monsoon system is probably 50Wrms.
This is not to say that the 6W0's are a bad speaker, just not a good choice for a direct drop-in replacement for the Monsoon system. They are designed as true subwoofers. While the sail panel speakers are erroneously called subs, they are not.
There are 4 ohm speakers out there that will produce sound equal to the 2 ohm stockers with the same input level. The Alpine SPS-17C2's do, as well as my Pioneer TS-M7PRS midbasses I have in my sails (both have a sensitivity of 92dB/W/m).
Do yourself a favor and drop in a pair reasonably priced 4" coaxial speakers in the rear hatch area. Unlike the T/A setup, Camaros don't have a tweeter back there. THe addition of one is noticable. I'd recommend Alpine SPS-10C2.
Contrary to what Craiggg thinks, the reason your JL's needed another amplifier was because they are not very efficient speakers (sensitivity: 81dB/W/m). Not because they they were 4 ohmspeakers. JL states that they require a minimum of 30Wrms to work. The most you'll ever get out of the Monsoon system is probably 50Wrms.
This is not to say that the 6W0's are a bad speaker, just not a good choice for a direct drop-in replacement for the Monsoon system. They are designed as true subwoofers. While the sail panel speakers are erroneously called subs, they are not.
There are 4 ohm speakers out there that will produce sound equal to the 2 ohm stockers with the same input level. The Alpine SPS-17C2's do, as well as my Pioneer TS-M7PRS midbasses I have in my sails (both have a sensitivity of 92dB/W/m).
Do yourself a favor and drop in a pair reasonably priced 4" coaxial speakers in the rear hatch area. Unlike the T/A setup, Camaros don't have a tweeter back there. THe addition of one is noticable. I'd recommend Alpine SPS-10C2.
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From: Georgetown, DE
Originally Posted by burningsquirrels
I might look that up, $140 isn't that bad. I was trying to do all this on a budget, but like any project, it has already tripled in cost before completion.
Originally I got the 6w0's after reading that one long thread about people with RFP subs and how the 6w0 is also a good choice... Sounded like a $100ish project. I installed those and then because of the volume difference I turned it up and blew out the door speakers ... Now I got the amp and install kit and installed that and that's where I'm at. I was thinking of following the '$100 improvement' article where they used the Alpine SPS-170a speakers but they're not as plentiful as the other SPS-17C2s.
Those Alpine SPR-17LS look like they can mount the tweeters coaxially, yes? I haven't taken the door panels off yet but I hope there is no clearance problem with the tweeter? I really don't want to drill a tweeter mount in my door...
Originally I got the 6w0's after reading that one long thread about people with RFP subs and how the 6w0 is also a good choice... Sounded like a $100ish project. I installed those and then because of the volume difference I turned it up and blew out the door speakers
... Now I got the amp and install kit and installed that and that's where I'm at. I was thinking of following the '$100 improvement' article where they used the Alpine SPS-170a speakers but they're not as plentiful as the other SPS-17C2s.Those Alpine SPR-17LS look like they can mount the tweeters coaxially, yes? I haven't taken the door panels off yet but I hope there is no clearance problem with the tweeter? I really don't want to drill a tweeter mount in my door...
The Alpine SPS-170A's are simply the older model number for the 17C2's. They are basically the same speaker. If you ask me, I'd stick with the SPS, instead of the SPR's. Unless you want to add an amplifier for those too. OK, I'm exagerating. I'm just trying to point out the fact that the SPR's like a bit more power, which makes the SPS's a beter fit for a drop-in replacement.
Last edited by HiTechGent; Jan 7, 2007 at 10:58 AM.
Originally Posted by burningsquirrels
I might look that up, $140 isn't that bad. I was trying to do all this on a budget, but like any project, it has already tripled in cost before completion.
Originally I got the 6w0's after reading that one long thread about people with RFP subs and how the 6w0 is also a good choice... Sounded like a $100ish project. I installed those and then because of the volume difference I turned it up and blew out the door speakers ... Now I got the amp and install kit and installed that and that's where I'm at. I was thinking of following the '$100 improvement' article where they used the Alpine SPS-170a speakers but they're not as plentiful as the other SPS-17C2s.
Those Alpine SPR-17LS look like they can mount the tweeters coaxially, yes? I haven't taken the door panels off yet but I hope there is no clearance problem with the tweeter? I really don't want to drill a tweeter mount in my door...
Originally I got the 6w0's after reading that one long thread about people with RFP subs and how the 6w0 is also a good choice... Sounded like a $100ish project. I installed those and then because of the volume difference I turned it up and blew out the door speakers
... Now I got the amp and install kit and installed that and that's where I'm at. I was thinking of following the '$100 improvement' article where they used the Alpine SPS-170a speakers but they're not as plentiful as the other SPS-17C2s.Those Alpine SPR-17LS look like they can mount the tweeters coaxially, yes? I haven't taken the door panels off yet but I hope there is no clearance problem with the tweeter? I really don't want to drill a tweeter mount in my door...
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From: Georgetown, DE
Originally Posted by Element
Tweeters anywhere but the front stage:
Of course, I've never been much for going to rock concerts. So stage imaging for that live concert feel is not a priority with me. I like to be immersed in my music, so having tweeters on the rear channels is a definite plus.
Last edited by HiTechGent; Jan 7, 2007 at 11:03 AM.