Write Up: C6 Steering Wheel in an F-body
05-21-2016, 08:46 PM
#241
Stay tuned.
Last edited by LT4vert; 05-22-2016 at 01:29 AM.
05-22-2016, 01:29 AM
#243
Given my car is 16 years old, I had planned on replacing the whole signal lever assembly while its all apart. So, im just going to get one that didnt have cruise. Between all the GM cars that used this assembly over the years there has to be one available with no cruise and delay wipers.
05-22-2016, 01:20 PM
#244
I still have a dream of changing that lever to one that is just an overall nicer unit. I think the column is just too skinny though to fit a modern multifunction switch on compared to how ours has a bunch of separate switches activated by various linkages.
05-22-2016, 08:28 PM
#245
I got my upper shaft for the steering wheel from an 07 Caddy CTS that had an electric tilt and tele column and the newer style switches that are in all gm cars. Amazingly I think the entire uppper assembly would bolt to the old style gm colum. Underneath all the new stuff its still built from the old saginaw column design. I was just eye balling, but all the core mounting points looks the same. However with the space we have between the steering wheel and the speedometer and the small circular opening the new stuff would never fit. I had all the new switches/levers out and they are definately to bulky to fit our column
05-23-2016, 02:46 PM
#246
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I will know within a month or so. Have the wheel, airbag/connector and all other related parts, now just need the time. Looks like I will be the beta to connect the dual stage bag with our single stage system. From what I understand hooking up the 2nd stage connector on the airbag should be fine.
The thing is, HOW will you know it will function properly without it actually deploying in an accident??
Does the absence of any dash lights guarantee function?
06-17-2016, 07:10 AM
#248
Deploying the bag is easiest done by remotely applying the proper voltage of 36V to the bag connector. But you can also use just 12V, it should deploy just the same.
However, you don't want to know if the bag deploys, I don't doubt that. If the diagnostics succeed and you don't wire up two igniters instead of one, it will deploy. The question is if it will deploy identically to the original airbag.
At the very least you will need a high speed camera (many cheap cameras offer 1000 fps these days!), plenty of lighting (because at high speeds the camera has an exposure time in the millisecond range), and LED in parallel to the airbag visible by the camera to have a timing reference in the image series as to when firing voltage was applied.
Then you have to deploy a stock bag and note how long it takes for deployment (time between application of power until the bag is fully inflated). This should be about 10ms, although if the bag is old, this time may vary. Also note how long it takes for the bag to deflate.
Now you should run the same experiment with two dual stage bages, firing stage 1 only on the first bag, and firing stage 2 on the second. Note the inflation times and the deflation times and compare to the original bag.
My gut feeling is that the newer style bag may be closer to the 10ms specification just because it isn't decades old. They are only guaranteed to work as intended for the first 8 years of their life.
However, you don't want to know if the bag deploys, I don't doubt that. If the diagnostics succeed and you don't wire up two igniters instead of one, it will deploy. The question is if it will deploy identically to the original airbag.
At the very least you will need a high speed camera (many cheap cameras offer 1000 fps these days!), plenty of lighting (because at high speeds the camera has an exposure time in the millisecond range), and LED in parallel to the airbag visible by the camera to have a timing reference in the image series as to when firing voltage was applied.
Then you have to deploy a stock bag and note how long it takes for deployment (time between application of power until the bag is fully inflated). This should be about 10ms, although if the bag is old, this time may vary. Also note how long it takes for the bag to deflate.
Now you should run the same experiment with two dual stage bages, firing stage 1 only on the first bag, and firing stage 2 on the second. Note the inflation times and the deflation times and compare to the original bag.
My gut feeling is that the newer style bag may be closer to the 10ms specification just because it isn't decades old. They are only guaranteed to work as intended for the first 8 years of their life.
06-17-2016, 01:22 PM
#250
I came acrossed something unexpected with this wheel. I bought 2 steering wheels. 1 brand new gm wheel from the 2011-2013 Corvettes and 1 used 2013 Malibu wheel I bought to get the voice control and cruise switches. There are a few different sizes of this wheel even though they all look the same. The 11-13 Vette wheel is much smaller at slightly less than 14.5". The Malibu/G6 and Aura wheel is actually a hair bigger in diameter than the stock 95-02 and 00-02 Chevy and Pontiac fcar wheels at over 15". 15 1/4 if I remeber right. All the Cobalt wheels are 14.5", I believe the 06-2010 style Vette wheels are this size as well but do not have 10 and 2 thumb grips like the Cobalt wheel.
Also with the airbag mounting, dont buy an airbag from a Malibu. The horn is different. My Cobalt airbag snaps right into the Vette wheel. It however will not fit the Malibu wheel. Horn styles are easy to spot, the one the Vette and
Cobalt use is a flat'ish metal plate. The Malibu used 3 black plastic pads that are seperate from each other. The 2 different style horns are interchangeable on all the wheels though, if you have that kind of junkyard access.
Also with the airbag mounting, dont buy an airbag from a Malibu. The horn is different. My Cobalt airbag snaps right into the Vette wheel. It however will not fit the Malibu wheel. Horn styles are easy to spot, the one the Vette and
Cobalt use is a flat'ish metal plate. The Malibu used 3 black plastic pads that are seperate from each other. The 2 different style horns are interchangeable on all the wheels though, if you have that kind of junkyard access.
06-17-2016, 06:20 PM
#251
TECH Apprentice
I came acrossed something unexpected with this wheel. I bought 2 steering wheels. 1 brand new gm wheel from the 2011-2013 Corvettes and 1 used 2013 Malibu wheel I bought to get the voice control and cruise switches. There are a few different sizes of this wheel even though they all look the same. The 11-13 Vette wheel is much smaller at slightly less than 14.5". The Malibu/G6 and Aura wheel is actually a hair bigger in diameter than the stock 95-02 and 00-02 Chevy and Pontiac fcar wheels at over 15". 15 1/4 if I remeber right. All the Cobalt wheels are 14.5", I believe the 06-2010 style Vette wheels are this size as well but do not have 10 and 2 thumb grips like the Cobalt wheel.
Also with the airbag mounting, dont buy an airbag from a Malibu. The horn is different. My Cobalt airbag snaps right into the Vette wheel. It however will not fit the Malibu wheel. Horn styles are easy to spot, the one the Vette and
Cobalt use is a flat'ish metal plate. The Malibu used 3 black plastic pads that are seperate from each other. The 2 different style horns are interchangeable on all the wheels though, if you have that kind of junkyard access.
Also with the airbag mounting, dont buy an airbag from a Malibu. The horn is different. My Cobalt airbag snaps right into the Vette wheel. It however will not fit the Malibu wheel. Horn styles are easy to spot, the one the Vette and
Cobalt use is a flat'ish metal plate. The Malibu used 3 black plastic pads that are seperate from each other. The 2 different style horns are interchangeable on all the wheels though, if you have that kind of junkyard access.
The problem with the Gen4 Fbody controls is the steering wheel. We're not driving Optimus Prime. It's a performance car, not a semi-truck. It's wheel diameter is way too big especially for how you sit in the car low a stretched out. I measured my 02 SS wheel at between 15.25" - 15.5" but that's with my airbag on so maybe it's 15". 15" is roughly 380mm (14.960"). It would be nice if we had a good factory option for a 350mm (13.779") or 355mm (13.976") diameter wheel. The problem with the aftermarket is no airbag option but also my Kenwood DVD player is cool but I wouldn't really want it without the steering wheel controls as trying to use the touch screen while driving is about as safe as texting while driving.
What about a GTO steering wheel? Would its controls and airbag work in a Fbody? I've always really like how a GTO sits you in it and thought it had great feeling controls and seats in it.
06-17-2016, 06:35 PM
#252
TECH Apprentice
Also a smaller wheel diameter should quicken up the cars response to your steering inputs. The best factory wheel I've experienced is a EVO VIII's 350mm MOMO wheel. I wonder if that might be a little too small for a Fbody..... A fat wheel without the 9/3 knotch would be preferred IMO. I like a fat (but not too fat or wierd shaped like the POS wheel that was in the 2010 Camaro) and round steering that keeps the same shape all the way around it.
06-17-2016, 07:26 PM
#253
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Also a smaller wheel diameter should quicken up the cars response to your steering inputs. The best factory wheel I've experienced is a EVO VIII's 350mm MOMO wheel. I wonder if that might be a little too small for a Fbody..... A fat wheel without the 9/3 knotch would be preferred IMO. I like a fat (but not too fat or wierd shaped like the POS wheel that was in the 2010 Camaro) and round steering that keeps the same shape all the way around it.
I have a 330 MM Sparco 383 wheel in my car and it is most definitely NOT 'too small' for the car.
Especially given that the steering racks available for these cars, with NO quicker ratio aftermarket options/choices available,
are fairly slow to begin with, so YES, this wheel 'quickens' the response, albeit not as much as an actual quicker ratio rack, or circle track 'quickener' would.
06-17-2016, 07:29 PM
#254
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06-18-2016, 11:32 AM
#256
Wow I've been researching this on Google for a while this afternoon and found this which has just been commented on. Cool.
The problem with the Gen4 Fbody controls is the steering wheel. We're not driving Optimus Prime. It's a performance car, not a semi-truck. It's wheel diameter is way too big especially for how you sit in the car low a stretched out. I measured my 02 SS wheel at between 15.25" - 15.5" but that's with my airbag on so maybe it's 15". 15" is roughly 380mm (14.960"). It would be nice if we had a good factory option for a 350mm (13.779") or 355mm (13.976") diameter wheel. The problem with the aftermarket is no airbag option but also my Kenwood DVD player is cool but I wouldn't really want it without the steering wheel controls as trying to use the touch screen while driving is about as safe as texting while driving.
What about a GTO steering wheel? Would its controls and airbag work in a Fbody? I've always really like how a GTO sits you in it and thought it had great feeling controls and seats in it.
The problem with the Gen4 Fbody controls is the steering wheel. We're not driving Optimus Prime. It's a performance car, not a semi-truck. It's wheel diameter is way too big especially for how you sit in the car low a stretched out. I measured my 02 SS wheel at between 15.25" - 15.5" but that's with my airbag on so maybe it's 15". 15" is roughly 380mm (14.960"). It would be nice if we had a good factory option for a 350mm (13.779") or 355mm (13.976") diameter wheel. The problem with the aftermarket is no airbag option but also my Kenwood DVD player is cool but I wouldn't really want it without the steering wheel controls as trying to use the touch screen while driving is about as safe as texting while driving.
What about a GTO steering wheel? Would its controls and airbag work in a Fbody? I've always really like how a GTO sits you in it and thought it had great feeling controls and seats in it.
The GTO wheel is as large as our stock fcar wheel. Again there youd run into mounting issues. The spines on the GTO wheel are larger than the US gm splines of that time period. One possible solution that may work but not verified is the upper shaft from a Cadillac Catera. That car is derived from an overseas Opel Omega chassis and Id almost garantee was used in Holden cars as well. Like everything else though the radio controls could work and "most likely" the bag as well.
We cannot use the upper shaft from many of the lift up/down/telescope columns. Exceptions being the 02-07 Cadillac CTS and C6 Vette. The only thing allowing the use of the 3 spoke wheel is that there were many GM cars between 02-09 ish time period made with the old style saginaw tilt wheel that used an upper shaft identical to ours but had the new style metric splines for the wheel.
I think the best practical solution if you want a smaller OEM wheel, use of the radio controls and possibly of bag function is the 2011-2013 wheel. This wheel feels fantastic and its quite different from all the other 3 spoke wheels, including the version in the 06-2010 Vette. Theres also a ton of order combos from suede with 4 different colors of stitching or Nappa leather with the same stitch options. The wheel I got was only $220 brand new in the GM box. I still have to modify the left side bezel to use the cruise/info/enter switches.
Last edited by LT4vert; 06-18-2016 at 12:13 PM.
06-18-2016, 11:42 AM
#257
Here is the adapter Oliver(fieroluke) has designed to allow use of the steering wheel controls in the 3 spoke wheel with the OEM f body sir clockspring wiring. Both the radio side and the cruise control side. With that module, all you will need to so is use the correct adapter from PAC, Axxcess ect. for the car your radio controls came out of. Ive got a Vette wheel and am using radio/voice/cruise switches from a 2012 Malibu. So you buy the adapter for a 2012 Malibu. The PAC swi-cp5 I chose to use is universal for everything.
Video of the adapter Oliver made.
Video of the adapter Oliver made.
06-18-2016, 12:21 PM
#258
TECH Apprentice
There are factory options in the newest GM wheels. The new Vette and Camaro wheels are tiny in comparison to anything else GM has ever done. I havent measured it but it feels to be in the 350 mm area. Problem though, GM revised everything in the steering column from the long running saginaw style rack. The new wheels mount on a smooth unsplined shaft with a large center bolt. Given the old style tilt mechanism has been abandoned for the lift up/down in the new GM cars, we have no retrofit options for the upper shaft like we do with the C6 wheel. I'm pretty resourceful and creative and every solution to running a C7/gen 6 Camaro wheel, would boil down to machining adapters, and just kill the practicality of even pursuing it.
The GTO wheel is as large as our stock fcar wheel. Again there youd run into mounting issues. The spines on the GTO wheel are larger than the US gm splines of that time period. One possible solution that may work but not verified is the upper shaft from a Cadillac Catera. That car is derived from an overseas Opel Omega chassis and Id almost garantee was used in Holden cars as well. Like everything else though the radio controls could work and "most likely" the bag as well.
We cannot use the upper shaft from many of the lift up/down/telescope columns. Exceptions being the 02-07 Cadillac CTS and C6 Vette. The only thing allowing the use of the 3 spoke wheel is that there were many GM cars between 02-09 ish time period made with the old style saginaw tilt wheel that used an upper shaft identical to ours but had the new style metric splines for the wheel.
I think the best practical solution if you want a smaller OEM wheel, use of the radio controls and possibly of bag function is the 2011-2013 wheel. This wheel feels fantastic and its quite different from all the other 3 spoke wheels, including the version in the 06-2010 Vette. Theres also a ton of order combos from suede with 4 different colors of stitching or Nappa leather with the same stitch options. The wheel I got was only $220 brand new in the GM box. I still have to modify the left side bezel to use the cruise/info/enter switches.
The GTO wheel is as large as our stock fcar wheel. Again there youd run into mounting issues. The spines on the GTO wheel are larger than the US gm splines of that time period. One possible solution that may work but not verified is the upper shaft from a Cadillac Catera. That car is derived from an overseas Opel Omega chassis and Id almost garantee was used in Holden cars as well. Like everything else though the radio controls could work and "most likely" the bag as well.
We cannot use the upper shaft from many of the lift up/down/telescope columns. Exceptions being the 02-07 Cadillac CTS and C6 Vette. The only thing allowing the use of the 3 spoke wheel is that there were many GM cars between 02-09 ish time period made with the old style saginaw tilt wheel that used an upper shaft identical to ours but had the new style metric splines for the wheel.
I think the best practical solution if you want a smaller OEM wheel, use of the radio controls and possibly of bag function is the 2011-2013 wheel. This wheel feels fantastic and its quite different from all the other 3 spoke wheels, including the version in the 06-2010 Vette. Theres also a ton of order combos from suede with 4 different colors of stitching or Nappa leather with the same stitch options. The wheel I got was only $220 brand new in the GM box. I still have to modify the left side bezel to use the cruise/info/enter switches.
06-18-2016, 12:57 PM
#259
That is the exact part number for my wheel. Ebony nappa leather with ebony stitching, manual trans, no bluetooth.
All the different stitch, leather, suede,bluetooth or non, auto or manual versions all have different part numbers. The OEM stitch color options for both leather and suede were red, yellow, ebony or blue. The auto steering wheels have the paddle shifters. So there is a dizzying amount of part numbers for this wheel.
All the different stitch, leather, suede,bluetooth or non, auto or manual versions all have different part numbers. The OEM stitch color options for both leather and suede were red, yellow, ebony or blue. The auto steering wheels have the paddle shifters. So there is a dizzying amount of part numbers for this wheel.
