Rebuilding my first 4L80E
07-01-2013, 05:46 PM
#1
Rebuilding my first 4L80E So I picked up a 4L80E a few months back and finally got around to tearing it apart and starting the rebuild. My plans for this thing seem to change daily but for the most part I have decided what I'm going to do. Trans is getting a pro street rebuild kit from Dana @ probuilt automatics, also getting a transbrake (not sure which one, looking at rossler), and an sfi blanket or shield. I was going to put on an sfi bell, but I can't find one anywhere, so I'm leaving the stock bell on there for now. I have a few questions. One- Where is the best place to get hard parts from? The forward drum saw some heat, so I'm replacing it (possibly billet) and I'd like to get a new input shaft as well. Also, does anyone have any general advice on building these things? Lastly, how do you tell exactly when it was made? I know it's an '01, came out of a GMC 2500 van, but IIRC '01 was when they went through some changes. Any way to tell if it's early '01 or late?
07-01-2013, 07:54 PM
#2
Also what shifter is everyone using for the 80? I've done a lot of searching on here, and I like the Hurst Quarterstick, but from what I can tell it only works on 3 speeds. I don't really want a ratchet shifter, but it's starting to look like I have no other choice.
07-02-2013, 05:53 AM
#3
Sounds like you have your hands full. There is tons of info on this site, and on the internet in general regarding a lot of your questions.
-Call Jake's Performance for all your parts. They are 'the' 4L80e guys. Rebuild kit, trans brake, etc.
-Run a stock shifter- cheaper, looks better than a hacked up console, etc. If you insist on an aftermarket one, there are tons of threads showing them installed.
-A late model 4L80e has a cooler line towards the front and towards the rear of the right side of the trans. The early model trans has them both towards the front of the trans on the right side.
-Buy an ATSG rebuild manual. If gives you all the steps to rebuild.
-They don't make an SFI bell for these. You can retrofit a JW Ultra Bell, or run a blanket.
Good luck
-Call Jake's Performance for all your parts. They are 'the' 4L80e guys. Rebuild kit, trans brake, etc.
-Run a stock shifter- cheaper, looks better than a hacked up console, etc. If you insist on an aftermarket one, there are tons of threads showing them installed.
-A late model 4L80e has a cooler line towards the front and towards the rear of the right side of the trans. The early model trans has them both towards the front of the trans on the right side.
-Buy an ATSG rebuild manual. If gives you all the steps to rebuild.
-They don't make an SFI bell for these. You can retrofit a JW Ultra Bell, or run a blanket.
Good luck
07-02-2013, 08:36 AM
#4
Sounds like you have your hands full. There is tons of info on this site, and on the internet in general regarding a lot of your questions.
-Call Jake's Performance for all your parts. They are 'the' 4L80e guys. Rebuild kit, trans brake, etc.
-Run a stock shifter- cheaper, looks better than a hacked up console, etc. If you insist on an aftermarket one, there are tons of threads showing them installed.
-A late model 4L80e has a cooler line towards the front and towards the rear of the right side of the trans. The early model trans has them both towards the front of the trans on the right side.
-Buy an ATSG rebuild manual. If gives you all the steps to rebuild.
-They don't make an SFI bell for these. You can retrofit a JW Ultra Bell, or run a blanket.
Good luck
-Call Jake's Performance for all your parts. They are 'the' 4L80e guys. Rebuild kit, trans brake, etc.
-Run a stock shifter- cheaper, looks better than a hacked up console, etc. If you insist on an aftermarket one, there are tons of threads showing them installed.
-A late model 4L80e has a cooler line towards the front and towards the rear of the right side of the trans. The early model trans has them both towards the front of the trans on the right side.
-Buy an ATSG rebuild manual. If gives you all the steps to rebuild.
-They don't make an SFI bell for these. You can retrofit a JW Ultra Bell, or run a blanket.
Good luck
We also no longer sell parts or kits.
07-02-2013, 09:26 AM
#6
By pulling out of the parts business you are creating a hole in the market place for people like myself that do all their own work on their race cars.
I respected you as a builder/supplier as you understand the market.
Please reconsider your decision not to sell trans brakes and parts separately.
Thanks,
Mike
07-02-2013, 10:25 AM
#7
+1. I was going to order a trans brake and other parts in the next couple of months too?
By pulling out of the parts business you are creating a hole in the market place for people like myself that do all their own work on their race cars.
I respected you as a builder/supplier as you understand the market.
Please reconsider your decision not to sell trans brakes and parts separately.
Thanks,
Mike
By pulling out of the parts business you are creating a hole in the market place for people like myself that do all their own work on their race cars.
I respected you as a builder/supplier as you understand the market.
Please reconsider your decision not to sell trans brakes and parts separately.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
It was a decision that has been coming for some time and I've gone back and forth on it.
We're only selling parts to professional shops/installers, most of whom we've done business with in the past.
There are several reasons.
One is simply time. I've had as many as 10 people working for me over the last year. We've scaled back a bit and I've decided to focus on what we are good at. Building transmissions.
When we are busy, it's a full time job for me just to keep up with the workload, keep myself and my other two builders busy, deal with customers, and run the shop. Adding parts sales, tech, shipping, inventory, etc to that is not worth the time I have to invest.
Most people don't have any idea how much time I spend on the phone/email for tech questions, many not related to our products.
Often I am having to teach someone to do basic diagnosis on their car/install. It's not really cost effective to sell someone a kit, parts, etc and then have to hold their hand to build and install it.
I literally have taught people how to use a multi-meter over the phone.
When I look at other shops in the industry, many do not sell parts. I'm not trying to be PATC or TCI.
I could raise the prices to cover my time for technical support, but they would be extremely high and most people price shop, without realizing that they are paying for knowledge and support.
Trending Topics
07-02-2013, 05:48 PM
#9
I looked at Jake's a lot. Then I saw on their website where almost all of their stuff requires you to buy their transmission, bell and transbrake included. I'll run a stock shifter if I can, I like the sleeper look. I'm buying the ATSG book, and I have a buddy who's rebuilt autos since he was little, so that's where most of my info is coming from. So since Jake doesn't sell parts... anybody know someone who does?
07-03-2013, 02:55 AM
#11
Well damn, that really sucks. I was about to call in a couple weeks and order a bunch of parts from Jake's to do an all-out race build on my 4l80e..... Where's the next best place to buy race build kits, hard parts (stronger input, intermediate shafts, etc) and trans brake VBs?
07-04-2013, 03:41 PM
#13
Truth be told, I don't blame Jake at all. I know many of you guys don't like the decision but you'd be amazed of how much of a ******* hassle dealing with parts sales is. It can take away a lot of building time and people often expect you to hold their hand through the entire build on the phone, despite the disclaimer that only the kit is being sold, not the rebuild. If it's not the customer you're dealing with, it's some local shop who is in over their head and need support, and do stupid things like leave out the EPC solenoid on a transbrake valve body because "the instructions didn't say to leave it in" (while the instructions do not tell you DON'T take it out...) and the next thing you know there's a massive leak in the AFL circuit and the builder on the phone thinks you have a non-functioning product when they're just an under qualified.
I will admit, I haven't seen the shops in months, but last I remember all Jake did was have a phone glued to his ear talking to customers or typing emails. Sounds like a solid business plan shift
I will admit, I haven't seen the shops in months, but last I remember all Jake did was have a phone glued to his ear talking to customers or typing emails. Sounds like a solid business plan shift
Mike,
It was a decision that has been coming for some time and I've gone back and forth on it.
We're only selling parts to professional shops/installers, most of whom we've done business with in the past.
There are several reasons.
One is simply time. I've had as many as 10 people working for me over the last year. We've scaled back a bit and I've decided to focus on what we are good at. Building transmissions.
When we are busy, it's a full time job for me just to keep up with the workload, keep myself and my other two builders busy, deal with customers, and run the shop. Adding parts sales, tech, shipping, inventory, etc to that is not worth the time I have to invest.
Most people don't have any idea how much time I spend on the phone/email for tech questions, many not related to our products.
Often I am having to teach someone to do basic diagnosis on their car/install. It's not really cost effective to sell someone a kit, parts, etc and then have to hold their hand to build and install it.
I literally have taught people how to use a multi-meter over the phone.
When I look at other shops in the industry, many do not sell parts. I'm not trying to be PATC or TCI.
I could raise the prices to cover my time for technical support, but they would be extremely high and most people price shop, without realizing that they are paying for knowledge and support.
It was a decision that has been coming for some time and I've gone back and forth on it.
We're only selling parts to professional shops/installers, most of whom we've done business with in the past.
There are several reasons.
One is simply time. I've had as many as 10 people working for me over the last year. We've scaled back a bit and I've decided to focus on what we are good at. Building transmissions.
When we are busy, it's a full time job for me just to keep up with the workload, keep myself and my other two builders busy, deal with customers, and run the shop. Adding parts sales, tech, shipping, inventory, etc to that is not worth the time I have to invest.
Most people don't have any idea how much time I spend on the phone/email for tech questions, many not related to our products.
Often I am having to teach someone to do basic diagnosis on their car/install. It's not really cost effective to sell someone a kit, parts, etc and then have to hold their hand to build and install it.
I literally have taught people how to use a multi-meter over the phone.
When I look at other shops in the industry, many do not sell parts. I'm not trying to be PATC or TCI.
I could raise the prices to cover my time for technical support, but they would be extremely high and most people price shop, without realizing that they are paying for knowledge and support.
07-05-2013, 12:32 AM
#14
Truth be told, I don't blame Jake at all. I know many of you guys don't like the decision but you'd be amazed of how much of a ******* hassle dealing with parts sales is. It can take away a lot of building time and people often expect you to hold their hand through the entire build on the phone, despite the disclaimer that only the kit is being sold, not the rebuild. If it's not the customer you're dealing with, it's some local shop who is in over their head and need support, and do stupid things like leave out the EPC solenoid on a transbrake valve body because "the instructions didn't say to leave it in" (while the instructions do not tell you DON'T take it out...) and the next thing you know there's a massive leak in the AFL circuit and the builder on the phone thinks you have a non-functioning product when they're just an under qualified.
I will admit, I haven't seen the shops in months, but last I remember all Jake did was have a phone glued to his ear talking to customers or typing emails. Sounds like a solid business plan shift
I will admit, I haven't seen the shops in months, but last I remember all Jake did was have a phone glued to his ear talking to customers or typing emails. Sounds like a solid business plan shift
07-05-2013, 01:15 AM
#15
I had planned to eliminate parts sales around Labor Day, after the summer "slow" season.
Without getting into numbers, I sell quite a few parts, and it seems like it would be a big hit on the overall sales. However, the markup isn't all that great. I make less on parts than a local parts store does on the average part they sell you.
The counterguy/gal at O'reilly's isn't going to talk to you over the phone and tell you how to diagnose a failed EGR valve, rebuild your engine/trans, look up wiring diagrams for you, teach you how to use a DVOM, step by step you through a diagnosis. etc.
If I treat a customer like a parts store does, then I would be the bad guy.
I've learned that even most advanced enthusiasts don't need to build their own transmission. Most don't even need to be installing it. However the nature of the business I am in is to provide a product that the customer will install.
We have seen reputable shops cause failure by not doing proper tuning, not knowing how to properly fill a transmission, check shifter cable adjustment, etc.
It's hard to expect any transmission to live when it is 3 qts low, or tuned for minimal line pressure at all times in 1000+ HP applications.
Parts sales ended about 2 weeks ago simply because I was DONE with the hassle of dealing with it. I don't care how much profit is in it, I'm not dealing with it anymore. If you buy a kit from Hughes or TCI, you most likely do so from Summit or Jeg's. The phone jockey there isn't going to give you any real tech help, and you won't get much more if you call the company directly. When I speak to a customer, they get to talk to someone who has not only built a transmission, but also helped hundreds of customers get through it, and I know many of the pitfalls.
I spoke with another builder in the industry yesterday and he said it best, "You have to provide the help, whether it's your product's fault or not, because you have to defend your product's reputation."
I've decided that we will build the complete transmission, provide support for that, and let the parts industry deal with selling parts.
We've found that we more often than not, we get the job after a parts customer can't get it right and gives up.
Part of the decision also relates to our transmissions, it will help us deliver transmissions faster due to less time spent dealing with making, selling, packaging, and supporting parts sales.
We've got some exciting new stuff going on at the shop right now and when the time comes I will spill the beans.
I will also say that after the summer season ends, pricing will likely be increasing on most of our builds. So anybody looking to get a trans, now may be the time.
Without getting into numbers, I sell quite a few parts, and it seems like it would be a big hit on the overall sales. However, the markup isn't all that great. I make less on parts than a local parts store does on the average part they sell you.
The counterguy/gal at O'reilly's isn't going to talk to you over the phone and tell you how to diagnose a failed EGR valve, rebuild your engine/trans, look up wiring diagrams for you, teach you how to use a DVOM, step by step you through a diagnosis. etc.
If I treat a customer like a parts store does, then I would be the bad guy.
I've learned that even most advanced enthusiasts don't need to build their own transmission. Most don't even need to be installing it. However the nature of the business I am in is to provide a product that the customer will install.
We have seen reputable shops cause failure by not doing proper tuning, not knowing how to properly fill a transmission, check shifter cable adjustment, etc.
It's hard to expect any transmission to live when it is 3 qts low, or tuned for minimal line pressure at all times in 1000+ HP applications.
Parts sales ended about 2 weeks ago simply because I was DONE with the hassle of dealing with it. I don't care how much profit is in it, I'm not dealing with it anymore. If you buy a kit from Hughes or TCI, you most likely do so from Summit or Jeg's. The phone jockey there isn't going to give you any real tech help, and you won't get much more if you call the company directly. When I speak to a customer, they get to talk to someone who has not only built a transmission, but also helped hundreds of customers get through it, and I know many of the pitfalls.
I spoke with another builder in the industry yesterday and he said it best, "You have to provide the help, whether it's your product's fault or not, because you have to defend your product's reputation."
I've decided that we will build the complete transmission, provide support for that, and let the parts industry deal with selling parts.
We've found that we more often than not, we get the job after a parts customer can't get it right and gives up.
Part of the decision also relates to our transmissions, it will help us deliver transmissions faster due to less time spent dealing with making, selling, packaging, and supporting parts sales.
We've got some exciting new stuff going on at the shop right now and when the time comes I will spill the beans.
I will also say that after the summer season ends, pricing will likely be increasing on most of our builds. So anybody looking to get a trans, now may be the time.
07-06-2013, 10:27 AM
#16
So I picked up a 4L80E a few months back and finally got around to tearing it apart and starting the rebuild. My plans for this thing seem to change daily but for the most part I have decided what I'm going to do. Trans is getting a pro street rebuild kit from Dana @ probuilt automatics, also getting a transbrake (not sure which one, looking at rossler), and an sfi blanket or shield. I was going to put on an sfi bell, but I can't find one anywhere, so I'm leaving the stock bell on there for now. I have a few questions. One- Where is the best place to get hard parts from? The forward drum saw some heat, so I'm replacing it (possibly billet) and I'd like to get a new input shaft as well. Also, does anyone have any general advice on building these things? Lastly, how do you tell exactly when it was made? I know it's an '01, came out of a GMC 2500 van, but IIRC '01 was when they went through some changes. Any way to tell if it's early '01 or late?
After you purchase the bell housing you are required to send them your pump so they can machine it to fit.
You will also need to remove the factory portion of the bell housing yourself.
Mike
http://www.racewithjw.com/index.php
