How do you get the pump to stop leaking? I tried it all
08-29-2008, 05:43 PM
#1
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How do you get the pump to stop leaking? I tried it all When I got this car at 22k miles it had a drip of fluid on the bellhousing. I don't think the drip ever hit the driveway.
At 32k miles I took it apart to put in the complete shift kit, some other upgrades, and a TCI converter. I replaced the front pump gasket, o-ring, bolt o-rings, and seal. Still had a minor drip, but it now leaves a mark on the driveway.
I didn't like the converter so I put the stock one back in, also needed some changed inside so I took the pump back out and changed all the o-rings, seals, etc listed above. Still had a minor drip, and marks the driveway.
At 35k miles I pulled it out and put an M6 in. It sat under my bench with the converter in it and STILL leaked.
I took it out from there and put it in another car and it dripped a little.
Recently I took it out only to fix this damn leak. I took all the seals and o-rings out and looked them over. Honestly I could have put everything but the seal back in--no problems. No nicks in the sealing surfaces, nothing.
This time I replaced the pump bushing in addition to the other parts. I never use sealer, just light grease on the rubber parts, and grease on the ID of the seal, I use a dial type torque wrench on everything, even the pan. Always take the bellhousing off before pulling the pump.
I can't even tell where it's coming from. This last time before I took it out I put my finger in the small bellhousing hole and it came out covered in fluid, yet when I got it all out the converter was 100% dry on the outside, the bellhousing was only wet on the very bottom.
But now that it's all done it has three drips and they stain the driveway.
Everything else is dry, the dipstick tube, the servo cover, cooler lines.
Any idea where it could be leaking from?
Also to people who change converters, do you ever take the pump out to change the bushing and seal? Or just swap out converters?
Anyone have a 4L60E with a bellhousing thats 100% dry?
At 32k miles I took it apart to put in the complete shift kit, some other upgrades, and a TCI converter. I replaced the front pump gasket, o-ring, bolt o-rings, and seal. Still had a minor drip, but it now leaves a mark on the driveway.
I didn't like the converter so I put the stock one back in, also needed some changed inside so I took the pump back out and changed all the o-rings, seals, etc listed above. Still had a minor drip, and marks the driveway.
At 35k miles I pulled it out and put an M6 in. It sat under my bench with the converter in it and STILL leaked.
I took it out from there and put it in another car and it dripped a little.
Recently I took it out only to fix this damn leak. I took all the seals and o-rings out and looked them over. Honestly I could have put everything but the seal back in--no problems. No nicks in the sealing surfaces, nothing.
This time I replaced the pump bushing in addition to the other parts. I never use sealer, just light grease on the rubber parts, and grease on the ID of the seal, I use a dial type torque wrench on everything, even the pan. Always take the bellhousing off before pulling the pump.
I can't even tell where it's coming from. This last time before I took it out I put my finger in the small bellhousing hole and it came out covered in fluid, yet when I got it all out the converter was 100% dry on the outside, the bellhousing was only wet on the very bottom.
But now that it's all done it has three drips and they stain the driveway.
Everything else is dry, the dipstick tube, the servo cover, cooler lines.
Any idea where it could be leaking from?
Also to people who change converters, do you ever take the pump out to change the bushing and seal? Or just swap out converters?
Anyone have a 4L60E with a bellhousing thats 100% dry?
08-29-2008, 05:51 PM
#2
Sounds like you have covered about everything, We have one like that once, finally replaced the case and well the leak stopped. I didn't have calipers that would measure that large and area at the time but since we could see no cracks or other obvious damage I can only assume the pump area of the case was out of round or something.
All the parts were swapped to another case and no leak so ? We trashed that case.
I don't think most people change the bushing when the install a converter but the front seal is a good idea and you don't need to remove the pump to do that
All the parts were swapped to another case and no leak so ? We trashed that case.
I don't think most people change the bushing when the install a converter but the front seal is a good idea and you don't need to remove the pump to do that
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08-29-2008, 06:53 PM
#4
Did you change the orings on the bolts? I have seen some leaks that the only thing I could see where damaged orings. I personally do not like to do this but you could take and silicone the pump in there. Make sure you get everything oil free and goo it together! Another thing to consider is a cracked front cover. I have seen bushings spin and actually crack the front cover. Vince
08-29-2008, 08:13 PM
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Yes, I did change the bolt o-rings each time. I've thought of using silicone too, actually I wish I did that.
I'm thinking something weird, either an out of round case like Frank said, or a cracked front cover. How did you find the crack?
The bushing I just took out was the original one, and I really don't think it was worn much at all. The teflon coating was still in good shape.
Now the cracked front cover...I don't think that converter I had in there could have done it unless it had a bad vibration? It was cut open and refreshed before I installed it.
I should have asked this while the trans was out, knowing me I'll be taking it out again to check for these two things.
This has really got me thinking now.
Thanks for the info guys.
I'm thinking something weird, either an out of round case like Frank said, or a cracked front cover. How did you find the crack?
The bushing I just took out was the original one, and I really don't think it was worn much at all. The teflon coating was still in good shape.
Now the cracked front cover...I don't think that converter I had in there could have done it unless it had a bad vibration? It was cut open and refreshed before I installed it.
I should have asked this while the trans was out, knowing me I'll be taking it out again to check for these two things.
This has really got me thinking now.
Thanks for the info guys.
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01-02-2009, 07:52 PM
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Well I took the trans out today, removed the bellhousing, put the converter in a little, sealed all the holes, filled it with fluid, and blew air into the vent tube.
Fluid started leaking out of the bottom between the pump and case (leaking past the o-ring)
I did install the o-ring with oil. Thats the right way correct? I've never used sealer there before and never had a leak like this.
Now under very, very close inspection I see that there is a tiny nick around where the leak was, very tiny.
I don't think it could cause this but who knows. The pump o-ring looks new still, not a matching nick on it.
I got a can of The Right Stuff and I'm going pile it on the pump side only
I've disassembled the pump to degrease it.
I was searching for bellhousing to case torque specs and found this old post, heres to try #5
Fluid started leaking out of the bottom between the pump and case (leaking past the o-ring)
I did install the o-ring with oil. Thats the right way correct? I've never used sealer there before and never had a leak like this.
Now under very, very close inspection I see that there is a tiny nick around where the leak was, very tiny.
I don't think it could cause this but who knows. The pump o-ring looks new still, not a matching nick on it.
I got a can of The Right Stuff and I'm going pile it on the pump side only
I've disassembled the pump to degrease it.
I was searching for bellhousing to case torque specs and found this old post, heres to try #5
01-03-2009, 12:53 AM
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SOOO, The trans is together sealed up. SEALED up.
I feel sorry for the next guy who takes it apart.
Had a oh **** moment though.
I put a small bead of the right stuff in the o-ring groove and then put the o-ring on and pushed it in. Well apparently the oring wouldn't go into the groove all the way.
I worked it in with a screw driver and against my better judgement pulle the pump in by tightening the bolts. There was a pop. That left two slivers of the o-ring outside.
Not a big deal.
I also put a bead around it before installing the bellhousing, and I totally covered the bolts with the goop
My only concern is that pop, I hope it didn't shave any of the sealing rings off the input or the ones that go into the reverse input drum
I feel sorry for the next guy who takes it apart.
Had a oh **** moment though.
I put a small bead of the right stuff in the o-ring groove and then put the o-ring on and pushed it in. Well apparently the oring wouldn't go into the groove all the way.
I worked it in with a screw driver and against my better judgement pulle the pump in by tightening the bolts. There was a pop. That left two slivers of the o-ring outside.
Not a big deal.
I also put a bead around it before installing the bellhousing, and I totally covered the bolts with the goop
My only concern is that pop, I hope it didn't shave any of the sealing rings off the input or the ones that go into the reverse input drum
01-03-2009, 01:06 AM
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Use caution when apply any RTV or sealant. There are .040" orifices in the separator plate that feed the soleniods. If any sediment makes it in to the V.B you will me missing a couple of gears.
01-03-2009, 08:28 AM
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There is no explaination as to why my trans is leaking, so this is a last resort. I was very careful to get it only in the o-ring groove and out toward the bellhousing, not further into the trans.
If it looses a gear, I guess the cars going to sit.
01-03-2009, 07:19 PM
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Still leaks.
Leaks so bad now it cannot be driven.
It wasn't leaking at first, I got the fluid to temp and right on the full mark. One last test drive I got on it hard and came back to find a steady drip out of the bellhousing.
Leaks so bad now it cannot be driven.
It wasn't leaking at first, I got the fluid to temp and right on the full mark. One last test drive I got on it hard and came back to find a steady drip out of the bellhousing.
01-03-2009, 11:50 PM
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Heres todays blog entry, replies/comments are welcome
The Right Stuff, Permatex 25223
Is ****, I'm so ******* pissed off right now.
This stuff WOULD HAVE worked had it been properly advertised. Here take a break from my whining and read about this garbage on their site. CLICK HERE. It fits my application perfectly EXCEPT THIS PART: Return equipment to service immediately
It makes perfect sense, I ran the car around the block three times (about a mile each time) to get the fluid level right, each time I'd check and the problem area was bone dry. I was so happy.
One last drive, got on it hard. Came home pulled up the driveway thinking finally, it's fixed.
I look under the car and it's raining trans fluid off the pan from the steady on drip per second leak coming out of the bellhousing.
So why did it not leak then start leaking? I had no clue. I pulled it all back out.
Guess what, THERES WET/UNCURED RIGHT STUFF EVERYWHERE!
iT SAYS PUT BACK TO SERVICE IN 5 MINUTES, IT DIDN'T EVEN SEE FLUID FOR 15 hours. Right now it's been over 24 hours and theres still uncured sealant on it.
I'll admit, the stuff that sheared off the edge cured to a tough o-ring like rubber.
The stuff that didn't cure took a while but it blew out, it has a very thick consistancy.
I am so pissed off, now I got this crap curing on my pump right now and it's going to be a bitch to clean off.
Then it's back to square one, should I retry this and let it cure a week?
No ideas why it's leaking in the first place.
HERES A TECH QUESTION---what would place pressure on the pump to case o-ring enough to blow fluid out of it on a hard run?
Anyone there?
The Right Stuff, Permatex 25223
Is ****, I'm so ******* pissed off right now.
This stuff WOULD HAVE worked had it been properly advertised. Here take a break from my whining and read about this garbage on their site. CLICK HERE. It fits my application perfectly EXCEPT THIS PART: Return equipment to service immediately
It makes perfect sense, I ran the car around the block three times (about a mile each time) to get the fluid level right, each time I'd check and the problem area was bone dry. I was so happy.
One last drive, got on it hard. Came home pulled up the driveway thinking finally, it's fixed.
I look under the car and it's raining trans fluid off the pan from the steady on drip per second leak coming out of the bellhousing.
So why did it not leak then start leaking? I had no clue. I pulled it all back out.
Guess what, THERES WET/UNCURED RIGHT STUFF EVERYWHERE!
iT SAYS PUT BACK TO SERVICE IN 5 MINUTES, IT DIDN'T EVEN SEE FLUID FOR 15 hours. Right now it's been over 24 hours and theres still uncured sealant on it.
I'll admit, the stuff that sheared off the edge cured to a tough o-ring like rubber.
The stuff that didn't cure took a while but it blew out, it has a very thick consistancy.
I am so pissed off, now I got this crap curing on my pump right now and it's going to be a bitch to clean off.
Then it's back to square one, should I retry this and let it cure a week?
No ideas why it's leaking in the first place.
HERES A TECH QUESTION---what would place pressure on the pump to case o-ring enough to blow fluid out of it on a hard run?
Anyone there?
01-04-2009, 03:58 AM
#18
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Amigo stop wasting your time with the goo ****. Just try and find a case. I know it really sucks but you know the goo is probably just a stop gap. Good luck man. Hope you get this fixed.