New V1 Bolt on Twin Turbo Kit
11-01-2013, 06:15 PM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New V1 Bolt on Twin Turbo Kit Hey guys,
I have been talking to Nick over at PEP Racing about putting together a true bolt on twin turbo kit for our cars. This is the same gentleman who designed and installed B_ROCKS_IT's kit here on the forums. Nick said the kit should make 500 rwhp on only 5 to 6 psi on a bone stock motor with no loss in daily driving ability. Higher HP is possible with more boost and/or Meth. B_ROCKS_IT got 780 rwhp on 114 octane.
For those not familiar with B-ROCKS_IT's car, here are a few threads on his car:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-2004-2007-gen-i/1627067-2007-cts-v-twin-turbo-vids.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-classifieds/1652648-04-07-cts-v-twin-turbo-kit-900-whp-capable.html
The kit would utilize existing manifolds and have the turbos mounting in place of the catalytic converters.
Pricing will be right around $7,700 +/- depending on your turbo choice. The kits will start being built once we have 3-5 seriously interested parties. I will update this thread as more people become interested.
I have been talking to Nick over at PEP Racing about putting together a true bolt on twin turbo kit for our cars. This is the same gentleman who designed and installed B_ROCKS_IT's kit here on the forums. Nick said the kit should make 500 rwhp on only 5 to 6 psi on a bone stock motor with no loss in daily driving ability. Higher HP is possible with more boost and/or Meth. B_ROCKS_IT got 780 rwhp on 114 octane.
For those not familiar with B-ROCKS_IT's car, here are a few threads on his car:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-2004-2007-gen-i/1627067-2007-cts-v-twin-turbo-vids.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-classifieds/1652648-04-07-cts-v-twin-turbo-kit-900-whp-capable.html
The kit would utilize existing manifolds and have the turbos mounting in place of the catalytic converters.
Pricing will be right around $7,700 +/- depending on your turbo choice. The kits will start being built once we have 3-5 seriously interested parties. I will update this thread as more people become interested.
11-02-2013, 10:08 AM
#3
Doubtful that anyone here wants that kit. Reasons:
For $7,500, you can put together a TVS2300 kit that'll make more power than that (psychobillycaddy and DMM are both well in excess of 600 RWHP), with better reliability, and an easier installation.
- Ground clearance and/or crumple zone compromised
- Overinflated power numbers
- No real world test data
- Weak stock connecting rods
- Poor build reliability (as evidenced by the short lifetime of that build)
For $7,500, you can put together a TVS2300 kit that'll make more power than that (psychobillycaddy and DMM are both well in excess of 600 RWHP), with better reliability, and an easier installation.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 11-02-2013 at 12:58 PM.
11-02-2013, 10:23 AM
#4
TECH Addict
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Weak stock crank??? Besides the block, the crank is the strongest part in a stock Gen III motor. I'd be more worried about the stock rod bolts and pistons before anything but as long as you are responsible with the boost, a person can have a lot of fun with a stock motor. And 9 lbs out of a turbo setup and 9 lbs out of a Maggie are two completely different things.
11-02-2013, 10:32 AM
#6
Weak stock crank??? Besides the block, the crank is the strongest part in a stock Gen III motor. I'd be more worried about the stock rod bolts and pistons before anything but as long as you are responsible with the boost, a person can have a lot of fun with a stock motor. And 9 lbs out of a turbo setup and 9 lbs out of a Maggie are two completely different things.
11-02-2013, 12:35 PM
#7
TECH Fanatic
Isn't the stock crank good to like 900hp? I'm totally just tossing a number out there.
I love the idea of twins on the cadi. But unless the price is under/around $6k I doubly anyone is going to jump on it. I'm in agreement with fuzzy on this one. A new TVS is a pretty efficient SC. And you can get one that just drops right on top of the motor. With turbos there is a whole *** ton of **** to go wrong... Charge pipes, couplers, wastegates x2, BOV, and all the oil lines. I know at like 5-6psi you aren't even really pushing anything hard but in all reality if you want to do a bolt on kit in a garage, they would need to get the price way down from $7700. I think most guys that go turbo are going to do a completely custom build anyways with a built lower end to accommodate a ton of HP... So a bolt on kit won't really help them since they are probably doing it at a shop.
That said, give us some more details about what turbos it would come with, and what waste gates and blow off valves, and intercooler. Those are the high ticket items in any turbo kit. For 7700 I would almost expect a set of manifolds with wastegate ports welded in... Unless you get turbos with built in waste gates like the Borg Warner EFR turbos. But the EFR turbos ain't cheap.
I love the idea of twins on the cadi. But unless the price is under/around $6k I doubly anyone is going to jump on it. I'm in agreement with fuzzy on this one. A new TVS is a pretty efficient SC. And you can get one that just drops right on top of the motor. With turbos there is a whole *** ton of **** to go wrong... Charge pipes, couplers, wastegates x2, BOV, and all the oil lines. I know at like 5-6psi you aren't even really pushing anything hard but in all reality if you want to do a bolt on kit in a garage, they would need to get the price way down from $7700. I think most guys that go turbo are going to do a completely custom build anyways with a built lower end to accommodate a ton of HP... So a bolt on kit won't really help them since they are probably doing it at a shop.
That said, give us some more details about what turbos it would come with, and what waste gates and blow off valves, and intercooler. Those are the high ticket items in any turbo kit. For 7700 I would almost expect a set of manifolds with wastegate ports welded in... Unless you get turbos with built in waste gates like the Borg Warner EFR turbos. But the EFR turbos ain't cheap.
Trending Topics
11-02-2013, 04:01 PM
#9
TECH Enthusiast
Typical, attacking something you really know nothing about...
Doubtful that anyone here wants that kit. Reasons:
For $7,500, you can put together a TVS2300 kit that'll make more power than that (psychobillycaddy and DMM are both well in excess of 600 RWHP), with better reliability, and an easier installation.
- Ground clearance and/or crumple zone compromised
- Overinflated power numbers
- No real world test data
- Weak stock connecting rods
- Poor build reliability (as evidenced by the short lifetime of that build)
For $7,500, you can put together a TVS2300 kit that'll make more power than that (psychobillycaddy and DMM are both well in excess of 600 RWHP), with better reliability, and an easier installation.
11-02-2013, 04:18 PM
#11
Typical ad-hominem attack.
When the twin-turbo setup described above failed, due to the use of shoddy eBay turbos, the same builder installed a larger, single turbo that replaced the bumper and associated gas shocks.
When the twin-turbo setup described above failed, due to the use of shoddy eBay turbos, the same builder installed a larger, single turbo that replaced the bumper and associated gas shocks.
11-02-2013, 05:11 PM
#12
Well speaking from actual first hand knowledge, as the customer and owner of the car here are the facts.
-
As I have noted before, when the twins were on it was no different than driving a lowered car, actually a lot better than most lowered cars I have drove, and I will bet it had equal or more clearance than FuzzyLogics lowered car, especially considering the lowest points are alongside the wheels, and raise with the car over any bumps or curbs, quite the opposite with a lowered cars front bumper. I believe the lowest points were a fraction under 5" off the ground, Fuzzy, whats your front lips clearance?
I work in the real estate business among other things, and in 6 months I put over 10k Miles on with the twins, and I beat the **** out of the car, I have plenty of videos which prove that. I never had any major issues. The only thing notable was that the charge piping got scraped and became ovalized, but PEP had recommended to me prior to use piping that came ovalized, but I didnt because I did'nt want to wait 2 weeks to get it in. Once it was flattened by a few minor scrapes it never scraped again, had I used the piping PEP told me to, it wouldn't of happened in the first place.
- Not going to get into that argument anymore, but I'll bet for any interested buyers PEP would make an agreement for a guaranteed minimum horsepower to be achieved.
- People regularly achieve upwards of 700hp for extended periods on Stock bottom end TURBO Gen3 engines, there's plenty of guys on THIS forum alone that are currently doing it.
Nothing failed on this setup, I went big, for big power...
well I dont know what to tell you, from a turbo standpoint less than 500 for 9psi is pretty weak, any turbo LS on 9psi would destroy this car, I'll bet money my 6000lb Silverado L9H will take it on 8PSI.
Uh no, the turbos never failed at all. Hypothetically speaking even if they had it wouldn't of been PEP's fault, I chose the turbos, just as the OP listed in #1 would be the case for customers with this kit.
For the record, I was extremely happy with that twin setup, and sometimes wish I had just stuck with it and kept it as the reliable, full street car it was. I rushed PEP on completion with the understanding that Nick wanted quite a few things revised. From my experience working with them, I would vouch that he will not release anything to the public that is sub-par, I really hope he goes through with this so that people will see this first hand.
Ground clearance and/or crumple zone compromised
As I have noted before, when the twins were on it was no different than driving a lowered car, actually a lot better than most lowered cars I have drove, and I will bet it had equal or more clearance than FuzzyLogics lowered car, especially considering the lowest points are alongside the wheels, and raise with the car over any bumps or curbs, quite the opposite with a lowered cars front bumper. I believe the lowest points were a fraction under 5" off the ground, Fuzzy, whats your front lips clearance?
I work in the real estate business among other things, and in 6 months I put over 10k Miles on with the twins, and I beat the **** out of the car, I have plenty of videos which prove that. I never had any major issues. The only thing notable was that the charge piping got scraped and became ovalized, but PEP had recommended to me prior to use piping that came ovalized, but I didnt because I did'nt want to wait 2 weeks to get it in. Once it was flattened by a few minor scrapes it never scraped again, had I used the piping PEP told me to, it wouldn't of happened in the first place.
Overinflated power number
Weak stock connecting rods
Poor build reliability (as evidenced by the short lifetime of that build)
For comparison, here's a stock LS6 (2005 V1) with headers, Corsa, and 9 PSI:
When the twin-turbo setup described above failed, due to the use of shoddy eBay turbos
For the record, I was extremely happy with that twin setup, and sometimes wish I had just stuck with it and kept it as the reliable, full street car it was. I rushed PEP on completion with the understanding that Nick wanted quite a few things revised. From my experience working with them, I would vouch that he will not release anything to the public that is sub-par, I really hope he goes through with this so that people will see this first hand.
Last edited by B_ROCKS_IT; 11-02-2013 at 05:56 PM.
11-02-2013, 06:04 PM
#13
B, if you truly feel that way and you're serious about producing a kit, I'd like to see what you've got. Nobody's going to argue that a real product, with parts, instructions, and dyno results isn't a valuable contribution. But you'll probably want to look into becoming a vendor on LS1Tech first. 54 and GulfM3 can't even discuss their products on LS1Tech (even though I'd argue that their "products" are more akin to community service-type efforts), and neither will you. Additional suggestion: you should take over advertising, since you have the most experience with the product. No need to use VaderTA as a shill.
11-02-2013, 07:09 PM
#14
B, if you truly feel that way and you're serious about producing a kit, I'd like to see what you've got. Nobody's going to argue that a real product, with parts, instructions, and dyno results isn't a valuable contribution. But you'll probably want to look into becoming a vendor on LS1Tech first. 54 and GulfM3 can't even discuss their products on LS1Tech (even though I'd argue that their "products" are more akin to community service-type efforts), and neither will you. Additional suggestion: you should take over advertising, since you have the most experience with the product. No need to use VaderTA as a shill.
11-02-2013, 07:47 PM
#15
TECH Fanatic
I would have preferred twin turbo's, actually. The listed price point isn't bad considering the only kit ever made was that pathetic STS rear mount kit and it was over $8k. If Comp Turbo (or any of their vendors) gave the slightest **** about answering customer questions regarding their products I would have an oil-less twin setup now.
The E-Force was "Plan B".
The E-Force was "Plan B".
11-02-2013, 07:56 PM
#16
Launching!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 5280
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, heres whats going down, I have been talking with a couple people about a bolt on DIY twin turbo kit for the v1 CTS-V ls6/ls2.
This kit has been revised from the original system we did on Brandons car, we tested many different things to come up with a system that will not only make killer power but be able to drive the car just like it was stock.
Whats included:
*Two t3 turbos 58 to 66mm depending on your HP goals, (any brand you would like i can get but will alter price)
*Two 38mm wastegates (any brand wanted i can get but will alter price)
*Intermediate pipes (bolt to your factory manifolds)
*Oiling system with scavenge pump, lines, fittings, wiring harness, and relay box
*Full intercooler system, BOV, intercooler, piping, couplers, clamps, mass airflow adapter couplers.
*Intake tubes with cone filters
*Feed block with lines and check valves for both turbos
*Down pipes with rear flanges to clamp to factory exhaust (will require cutting of rear pipes to adapt down pipes to)
*NGK spark plugs
*60 or 80# injectors (need HP goals before ordering)
*Choice of aeromotive 340 or walbro 400/450 in tank pumps (400/450 series pumps require basket modifications which we can do for you if needed)
*Catch can with all clamps and hoses
*All gaskets, bolts and other hardware also included
*Full instruction sheet with color pictures and we will offer a PDF file that can be downloaded also, and my Personal cell phone number and shop number will be included, so if you run into any issues you call me any time.
(ALSO CAN DO CATS ON DOWN PIPES WITH REAR O2 BUNGS FOR EMISSIONS REGULATED VEHICLES, ADD 120$)
This will be a COMPLETE ready to bolt on kit that ANYONE with your basic hand tools can do in your garage. install will be around 6 hours or so give or take.
This system was a huge success on Brandons car, drove it EVERYWHERE! not one issue, as for the turbos, we had one fault, but found out it was a faulty oil pump which we have moved to a different pump (turbowerx) and never had issues after that.
I will warranty this kit for 1 year on turbo mechanical parts, turbo, gates, oil pump, and catch can. I will warranty the the intermediate pipes for life, if they somehow have an issue ill replace it for free no questions asked. same with down pipes as long as you dont send em to me smashed from running something over of course, but any cracks, leaks, or faulty in anyway i will replace it for free. same goes for intercooler piping.
This kit will be completely tig welded, hot pipes, cold pipes, the entire kit.
As for mechanical parts, I am a dealer for CXracing/magnum turbos, wastegates, BOV's and intercoolers, I have put them on MANY cars including my shop racecar, and have had no issues with any part, but like I said if a part has an issue ill replace it no questions asked.
If you are wanting to run name brand mechanical parts such as turbo, gate BOV, intercooler that is perfectly fine, just let me know what you are wanting to run and I will get you prices, I can get any brand part, so dont hesitate to ask for prices.
This system with GT3586's made 720rwhp corrected on 11 psi here in denver at our local dyno facility (DynoPro) on 91/108 mix, drove like stock, spooled around 2800rpm and full boost by 3200 to 3400 rpm, pulled like a freight train, no heating issues, no long distance driving issues, nothing. That system was on his car for several months, street racing almost every night, many passes on the dyno, several passes down the track, and countless miles on the street. most of the street miles were 2+ hour drives, lots of city stop-and-go traffic driving. It was his daily driver and I made sure it was going to stay that way.
This system powered this car to a 12.20 @ 128 at 4100 pounds on 245 all season tires with a 2.20 60" at 8000 ft altitude . . . .
We have done lots of testing with the new 3076 turbos on a couple other customer builds and have seen killer power output, reliability and driveability with them so that is why we have decided to use those.
If you have any questions at all, feel free to PM me with what ever questions or concerns you may have.
Thanks guys!
P.S.
The only reason we went to a single turbo system was simply because he decided to build his car for a different purpose, with the lack of room under the car bigger turbos werent an option, which is why we went to a 91mm single, the car STILL has no issues, makes 1000rwhp, STILL has A/C, and drives like it always has . . .
This kit has been revised from the original system we did on Brandons car, we tested many different things to come up with a system that will not only make killer power but be able to drive the car just like it was stock.
Whats included:
*Two t3 turbos 58 to 66mm depending on your HP goals, (any brand you would like i can get but will alter price)
*Two 38mm wastegates (any brand wanted i can get but will alter price)
*Intermediate pipes (bolt to your factory manifolds)
*Oiling system with scavenge pump, lines, fittings, wiring harness, and relay box
*Full intercooler system, BOV, intercooler, piping, couplers, clamps, mass airflow adapter couplers.
*Intake tubes with cone filters
*Feed block with lines and check valves for both turbos
*Down pipes with rear flanges to clamp to factory exhaust (will require cutting of rear pipes to adapt down pipes to)
*NGK spark plugs
*60 or 80# injectors (need HP goals before ordering)
*Choice of aeromotive 340 or walbro 400/450 in tank pumps (400/450 series pumps require basket modifications which we can do for you if needed)
*Catch can with all clamps and hoses
*All gaskets, bolts and other hardware also included
*Full instruction sheet with color pictures and we will offer a PDF file that can be downloaded also, and my Personal cell phone number and shop number will be included, so if you run into any issues you call me any time.
(ALSO CAN DO CATS ON DOWN PIPES WITH REAR O2 BUNGS FOR EMISSIONS REGULATED VEHICLES, ADD 120$)
This will be a COMPLETE ready to bolt on kit that ANYONE with your basic hand tools can do in your garage. install will be around 6 hours or so give or take.
This system was a huge success on Brandons car, drove it EVERYWHERE! not one issue, as for the turbos, we had one fault, but found out it was a faulty oil pump which we have moved to a different pump (turbowerx) and never had issues after that.
I will warranty this kit for 1 year on turbo mechanical parts, turbo, gates, oil pump, and catch can. I will warranty the the intermediate pipes for life, if they somehow have an issue ill replace it for free no questions asked. same with down pipes as long as you dont send em to me smashed from running something over of course, but any cracks, leaks, or faulty in anyway i will replace it for free. same goes for intercooler piping.
This kit will be completely tig welded, hot pipes, cold pipes, the entire kit.
As for mechanical parts, I am a dealer for CXracing/magnum turbos, wastegates, BOV's and intercoolers, I have put them on MANY cars including my shop racecar, and have had no issues with any part, but like I said if a part has an issue ill replace it no questions asked.
If you are wanting to run name brand mechanical parts such as turbo, gate BOV, intercooler that is perfectly fine, just let me know what you are wanting to run and I will get you prices, I can get any brand part, so dont hesitate to ask for prices.
This system with GT3586's made 720rwhp corrected on 11 psi here in denver at our local dyno facility (DynoPro) on 91/108 mix, drove like stock, spooled around 2800rpm and full boost by 3200 to 3400 rpm, pulled like a freight train, no heating issues, no long distance driving issues, nothing. That system was on his car for several months, street racing almost every night, many passes on the dyno, several passes down the track, and countless miles on the street. most of the street miles were 2+ hour drives, lots of city stop-and-go traffic driving. It was his daily driver and I made sure it was going to stay that way.
This system powered this car to a 12.20 @ 128 at 4100 pounds on 245 all season tires with a 2.20 60" at 8000 ft altitude . . . .
We have done lots of testing with the new 3076 turbos on a couple other customer builds and have seen killer power output, reliability and driveability with them so that is why we have decided to use those.
If you have any questions at all, feel free to PM me with what ever questions or concerns you may have.
Thanks guys!
P.S.
The only reason we went to a single turbo system was simply because he decided to build his car for a different purpose, with the lack of room under the car bigger turbos werent an option, which is why we went to a 91mm single, the car STILL has no issues, makes 1000rwhp, STILL has A/C, and drives like it always has . . .
11-03-2013, 06:02 AM
#18
Launching!
I dont understand why all of you have not realized that Fuzzy is the smartest in the world yet. He is an engineer for gods sake. Its 2+2x 10 to the negative fifth= your all f***ing stupid..... 
The following users liked this post:
54inches (05-13-2020)
11-03-2013, 08:06 AM
#19
TECH Enthusiast
The following users liked this post:
54inches (05-13-2020)
11-03-2013, 11:55 AM
#20
im glad to see the new company s interest in supporting the v1 cars with some higher hp stuff.
that being said i think you may be pricing your self out of the market at 8k$
i can see that kinda $ if you mounting the in the bay with custom ex manifolds and doing away with the problematic oil return pump.if you make a kit like this id be interested as would most on here
i can see 4-4.5k for a low/mid mount kit with factory manifolds.
not trying to discourage you but i think thats just what the market is for this car
that being said i think you may be pricing your self out of the market at 8k$
i can see that kinda $ if you mounting the in the bay with custom ex manifolds and doing away with the problematic oil return pump.if you make a kit like this id be interested as would most on here
i can see 4-4.5k for a low/mid mount kit with factory manifolds.
not trying to discourage you but i think thats just what the market is for this car