Go Back   LS1TECH > LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-LS7 PERFORMANCE > Conversions & Hybrids
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register iTraderTimeslips Photos Members Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Used CarsVendor Directory
Search

Conversions & Hybrids
LSX Engines in Non-LSX Vehicles
Sponsored by
Don Hardy Race Cars

Welcome to LS1Tech.com!
Welcome to LS1Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join LS1Tech.com today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-30-2011, 01:24 PM   #1
Launching!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 4
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 245
Default 180* crossover headers 944/ls1 conversion

I am going to drop a ls1 into a porsche 944. I love the sound of muscle but i do want my car to be a sleeper. I think the only thing I've heard that makes it sound closer to a flat crank, exotic car is a 180 crossover header. My problem is the engine bay is very tight. I'm going to have to custom build the headers anyway but what would be the easiest route to go about doing this?

http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/.../9171801_L.jpg
bp944 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 02:02 PM   #2
TECH Senior Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Tainted's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 9
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FaBuLoUs HELL
Posts: 8,462
Default

They are making a flat plane crank for LSX motors now
Tainted is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 02:29 PM   #3
TECH Fanatic
Garage is empty, add now
 
-TheBandit-'s Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oxnard CA
Posts: 1,839
Default

That is going to be a very tough project. You may want to check out Bend Tech Header Design software. http://www.2020softwaresolutions.com/bt_hd.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainted View Post
They are making a flat plane crank for LSX motors now
Really? Seriously? I'll believe it when I see it. Please post a link.
__________________
Clint Cancer Survivor Since 2006
'70 Nova LY6 VVT TH400 swap in progress
The OFFICIAL X-Body Swap Thread
-TheBandit- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 02:33 PM   #4
11 Second Club
1984 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
 
the_merv's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 86
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Arkansucks
Posts: 19,056
Default

Click the image to open in full size.

Looks like an octopus..
the_merv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 02:42 PM   #5
TECH Enthusiast
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 6
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: greenvile, sc
Posts: 589
Default

In for an answer. I'm going to do this when I build my gtm (one day). The headers pictured look like lt1 headers. I assume you posted the pic so other knew what a crossover header is though.. Ati made a few sets for the ls1 corvette. You can YouTube the video it's a sick sound. I don't think they still make them but maybe they could help you.
__________________
98 Trans Am
ls3, g6x3!
t/a98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 02:44 PM   #6
TECH Fanatic
Garage is empty, add now
 
-TheBandit-'s Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oxnard CA
Posts: 1,839
Default

180 headers have a unique sound that simulates that of a flat crank because the exhaust pulses into the collector are evenly spaced. I really like the way they sound, but they are very hard to package with reasonable and equal primary lengths and of course they end up looking like speghetti (sp?). Mid/rear engine cars tend to have more space for this sort of thing. If you can get it done in a 944, I will be very impressed. If you have a local dirt track, that is often where you will find these headers being used. If you're looking for performance, it's been demonstrated that standard long tube headers with an X pipe are just as good at developing power and a lot easier to package, but you don't get that exotic sound.
__________________
Clint Cancer Survivor Since 2006
'70 Nova LY6 VVT TH400 swap in progress
The OFFICIAL X-Body Swap Thread
-TheBandit- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 02:45 PM   #7
TECH Enthusiast
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 6
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: greenvile, sc
Posts: 589
Default

I think the 180 degree headers are a better option than a flat plane crank. I've read those cranks have vibration issues that ours dont. Plus you would have a different cam I believe.. It just seems cheaper and easier to do the exhaust than a crank and cam switch...
__________________
98 Trans Am
ls3, g6x3!
t/a98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 03:49 PM   #8
TECH Senior Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Tainted's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 9
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FaBuLoUs HELL
Posts: 8,462
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by -TheBandit- View Post
That is going to be a very tough project. You may want to check out Bend Tech Header Design software. http://www.2020softwaresolutions.com/bt_hd.htm



Really? Seriously? I'll believe it when I see it. Please post a link.
shazam, flat plane crank 358ci
Lingenfelter Flat Crank LS - engine dyno






Quote:
Originally Posted by t/a98 View Post
I think the 180 degree headers are a better option than a flat plane crank. I've read those cranks have vibration issues that ours dont. Plus you would have a different cam I believe.. It just seems cheaper and easier to do the exhaust than a crank and cam switch...
you dont need to switch a cam because of the crank
__________________

Support marriage equality
2005 GTO M6
Tainted is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 04:00 PM   #9
TECH Enthusiast
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 701
Default

My buddy has a 914 V8 track car with 180's. Yes, it certainly sounds a lot different than anything else on the track. Packaging those headers (Schoenfeld) would be impossible in the 944 short of some heavy body and chassis modifications like a tube framed stock car/dirt car.

Muscle car header manufacturers in the 60's went through a 180 kick which didn't last very long. They crossed over two primaries under the pan to get 180 degree headers, as I recall (on a SBC). I suppose you could do something similar once you get the phasing figured out, but it would be a lot of work.

Andy1
Andy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 04:07 PM   #10
TECH Fanatic
Garage is empty, add now
 
-TheBandit-'s Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oxnard CA
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainted View Post
shazam, flat plane crank 358ci
Very cool. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainted View Post
you dont need to switch a cam because of the crank
How would you avoid this? The lobe phasing would have to change so a different cam would be needed.
__________________
Clint Cancer Survivor Since 2006
'70 Nova LY6 VVT TH400 swap in progress
The OFFICIAL X-Body Swap Thread
-TheBandit- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 05:00 PM   #11
11 Second Club
1984 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
 
the_merv's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 86
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Arkansucks
Posts: 19,056
Default

Ya a different Cam would definately be needed..Valve Events would be so fucked off with a standard LS Cam..I bet the Cam would look similar to the Crank..Flat Plane Cam.
the_merv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 06:01 PM   #12
TECH Senior Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Tainted's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 9
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FaBuLoUs HELL
Posts: 8,462
Default

Hmm I figured cam would be ok since I didn't notice anything in the crank thread mentioning deity hint cams or that they had even made a cam to sell with the crank
Tainted is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 06:49 PM   #13
TECH Enthusiast
1979 Chevrolet Malibu
 
01cherryreds10's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 8
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 552
Default

That's pretty badass I had no idea you could even do such a thing to an LS engine.
__________________
79' Chevy Malibu
LQ4, PRC 243s, FAST 102/NW102, EPS 231/234, Yank 4000SS, FLT lvl 5 60e, 3.73, 34xxlb
11.23@118 1.50 60'
01cherryreds10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2011, 04:56 PM   #14
Launching!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 4
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 245
Default

I want the sound and nothing else. The power gains would be like 5hp or less. I'm that desperate for that sound to go to a flat plane crank and loose so much power for a huge price tag. I also wouldn't be devistated if I lost 10hp from this exhaust just because the exhaust sound is wonderful. Does ATI do custom exhaust systems?
bp944 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2011, 07:43 PM   #15
Teching In
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 30
Default

Have you considered a frequency modifier muffler? These are used in some kit cars to get an exotic car sound. They basically double the exhaust pulses, they make a 4 cylinder sound like an 8 and a 6 cylinder sound like a v12, etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSy_3nnsZdg
http://drgas.mybisi.com/product/freq...difier-muffler

I am faced with a similar problem, I am working on putting and LS2 into an old Ferrari (62 250 GTE) and have been trying to find ways to change the sound to sound closer to the original V12. I am planning on using these mufflers along with a camshaft that was recommended by Patrick Guerra to help reduce the LSx sewing machine sound.
debreshnev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2011, 09:58 PM   #16
Launching!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 4
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 245
Default

debreshnev, you are my hero. That is exactly the sound that I am looking for. Could you please record your exhaust when you have it finished? I'm probably going to copy it quite exactly except I'm going for a cam with power rather than for sound. Do you know of any ls1 videos with this exhaust in it? I want to know and hear how each setup is done.

Last edited by bp944; 08-31-2011 at 11:40 PM..
bp944 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2011, 11:44 PM   #17
Teching In
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 30
Default

Here is the cam spec Patrick recommended.
222/226 .597”/.605” 114LSA +2 advance
Some of the cam specialist may speak up but I am pretty sure it will make plenty of power since this basic setup is known to be a really good performer in LS motors. I have a chassis dyno so I will find out what it makes when it is done. Currently working on the the custom headers, so hopefully I will not be to long before I get the results.
debreshnev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2011, 11:56 PM   #18
Launching!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 4
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 245
Default

I found out that spintech also makes something similar. I found more videos but here's the one I seem to like the most. I enjoy the fact that the idle is pretty calm. I'd rather my car not scream when I'm cruising down the highway at 2,500 rpm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9wce1aEOA
bp944 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2011, 06:25 PM   #19
Launching!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 237
Default

What exhaust setup are you going to go with on the 944? I was planning on two into one with and offset in center out muffler. The DrGas and Spintech mufflers sound good.
arthropraxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 09:52 PM   #20
Teching In
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5
Default

I dont really don't see how with even the little space behind the intake and master cylinder where it is how 180 could even be an option especially as a sleeper? Huge hood scoop? Ha ha.
I got fed up with the options out there and came up with my own.
1 7/8 stainless long tube 3 inch long collectors. Ran 3 indual al the way back with a x pipe near the shifter then ran back to the original Muffler location where I put in a Magnaflow 2 1/2 inch 2 inlet 2 outlet crossover to give a little backpressure. Still very tame as a sleeper sound.
Slow Motion Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 09:52 PM
LS1Tech
Pontiac Firebird




Paid Advertisement
Reply

Tags
180, 350, 944, chevy, conversion, crank, crossover, flat, header, headers, ls1, ls1tech, lsx, plane, porsche


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2
Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - JOBS
Emails & Contact Details