Mating a SBC/BBC Trans (T10, Muncie, Richmond, TKO) with an LS motor
#81
The Muncie is a better shifting transmission than the T10. In fact, I think a Muncie shifts way better than a T56. This is due to the relatively lower gear mass and large synchro area...blah...blah..blah...
For a Muncie, you have two options, either the M20 wide ratio or the M21 close ratio. The M22 is relatively rare. It has the close ratio gears of the M21 but the gears have less angle, thus making it a noisier but stronger transmission.
The M20 has a 2.52 first gear while the M21/22 have a 2.20 first gear.
With a light car, plenty of power, and the fact that it is mostly a track car, I would go with the close ratio trans.
Andrew
For a Muncie, you have two options, either the M20 wide ratio or the M21 close ratio. The M22 is relatively rare. It has the close ratio gears of the M21 but the gears have less angle, thus making it a noisier but stronger transmission.
The M20 has a 2.52 first gear while the M21/22 have a 2.20 first gear.
With a light car, plenty of power, and the fact that it is mostly a track car, I would go with the close ratio trans.
Andrew
Can you guys give me a good idea of what kind of HP the muncie transmissions can handle? I'm obviously not throwing 600hp at it, more just curious. I'm a younger guy when it come to the generation of the muncie and it's capabilities. What would you say the transmissions weighs? just trying to get a rough comparison to my current setup.
#82
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Thanks for your input man, it will be a pretty light car, aiming for 2500lbs. final weight. It is just hard for me to judge as I haven't driven it yet with the setup (cars still under construction).
Can you guys give me a good idea of what kind of HP the muncie transmissions can handle? I'm obviously not throwing 600hp at it, more just curious. I'm a younger guy when it come to the generation of the muncie and it's capabilities. What would you say the transmissions weighs? just trying to get a rough comparison to my current setup.
Can you guys give me a good idea of what kind of HP the muncie transmissions can handle? I'm obviously not throwing 600hp at it, more just curious. I'm a younger guy when it come to the generation of the muncie and it's capabilities. What would you say the transmissions weighs? just trying to get a rough comparison to my current setup.
The Muncie transmission came stock on some of the most iconic Muscle cars of the late 60s and early 70s. These cars were heavy and made a lot of torque.
I don't want to throw out HP numbers, but personally, I think a M21 Muncie will live a very long life in a 2500 lb car with any sort of reasonable HP. You will never be able to strain the driveline because you'll spin the tires first. The Muncie transmission had an aluminum case and weighed about 75 pounds. When I was 17 I swapped the clutch on my GTO, on my back, with the front of the car on some ramps. I recall being able to lift the trans by myself. That's something that would be very hard to do with a T56.
Andrew
#83
The Muncie is about 75lbs, compared to the 125lb T56.
A stock wide ratio Muncie will survive behind a BBC, the close ratio will even take more, especially with the rock crusher gears.
A few notes. The early Muncies had a 7/8" countershaft. These wallowed out the hole they're mounted in at the front of the case. Later ones had 1" countershafts and were much better. You also get the stronger 26 spline input shaft with later ones.
If it's a track car, consider buying a used one. Lots available cheap with broken ears, etc. that you'll just use the internals. Check out Autogear, they sell a supercase that's quite a bit stronger than the original and an iron midplate. Not sure if the rear housing they sell is worth an upgrade.
Also when you rebuild, go for the torque lock sliders.
I've only driven a divorced corvette shifter and tailstock mounted Hurst. The hurst was much nicer
A stock wide ratio Muncie will survive behind a BBC, the close ratio will even take more, especially with the rock crusher gears.
A few notes. The early Muncies had a 7/8" countershaft. These wallowed out the hole they're mounted in at the front of the case. Later ones had 1" countershafts and were much better. You also get the stronger 26 spline input shaft with later ones.
If it's a track car, consider buying a used one. Lots available cheap with broken ears, etc. that you'll just use the internals. Check out Autogear, they sell a supercase that's quite a bit stronger than the original and an iron midplate. Not sure if the rear housing they sell is worth an upgrade.
Also when you rebuild, go for the torque lock sliders.
I've only driven a divorced corvette shifter and tailstock mounted Hurst. The hurst was much nicer
#84
I feel old all of a sudden...LOL
The Muncie transmission came stock on some of the most iconic Muscle cars of the late 60s and early 70s. These cars were heavy and made a lot of torque.
I don't want to throw out HP numbers, but personally, I think a M21 Muncie will live a very long life in a 2500 lb car with any sort of reasonable HP. You will never be able to strain the driveline because you'll spin the tires first. The Muncie transmission had an aluminum case and weighed about 75 pounds. When I was 17 I swapped the clutch on my GTO, on my back, with the front of the car on some ramps. I recall being able to lift the trans by myself. That's something that would be very hard to do with a T56.
Andrew
The Muncie transmission came stock on some of the most iconic Muscle cars of the late 60s and early 70s. These cars were heavy and made a lot of torque.
I don't want to throw out HP numbers, but personally, I think a M21 Muncie will live a very long life in a 2500 lb car with any sort of reasonable HP. You will never be able to strain the driveline because you'll spin the tires first. The Muncie transmission had an aluminum case and weighed about 75 pounds. When I was 17 I swapped the clutch on my GTO, on my back, with the front of the car on some ramps. I recall being able to lift the trans by myself. That's something that would be very hard to do with a T56.
Andrew
Did not mean to make you feel old haha, I just grew up where the muscle cars I could afford once I started driving were gen3 camaros ect.
Could I use a hydraulic slave with something like this or would it have to be a hydro TOB? I obviously don't have to mechanical linkages like the z bars to make this work.
Just trying to wrap my head around exactly what it is I need.
Last edited by Ironfreak; 11-13-2013 at 10:03 AM.
#85
The sachs flywheel is drilled for a clutch that accepts a 10 or 26 spline input shaft. It is really heavy, great for a truck or drag racing. If you go with a later Muncie/T10 with 26 spline shaft, you can use an LS1, 2, 3, even 500hp LS7 flywheel/clutch. Plenty of holding power there.
#86
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I think the issue is that the LT1 pressure plate has a different bolt pattern than the 4.8L flywheel. The LT1 clutch was a bit of an odd design and used a pull style TOB.
Since LS T56s are readily available, I see no reason to cobble together parts to make a LT1 T56 work behind a LS engine.
Andrew
Since LS T56s are readily available, I see no reason to cobble together parts to make a LT1 T56 work behind a LS engine.
Andrew
#87
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The general consensus to use a LT1 T56 behind a LS engine is to change input shaft and front plate. From memory, the LS bellhousing will mate to the LT1 front plate, but the input shaft is too short . . . Not sure by how much. The LS input shaft is about 1" longer.
If I had access to the LS bellhousing, I would test it out.
EDIT:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...eculation.html
If I had access to the LS bellhousing, I would test it out.
EDIT:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...eculation.html
Last edited by StrikeZero; 11-13-2013 at 06:30 PM.
#89
Gary68 and others...was wondering your thoughts on the following:
Luk 04-173 (clutch kit)
MT12638Z (bellhousing from The Parts Place)
RAM 78125 (hydraulic release bearing)
Trying to piece together a reasonably strong and inexpensive solution.
Thanks in advance, Chris.
Luk 04-173 (clutch kit)
MT12638Z (bellhousing from The Parts Place)
RAM 78125 (hydraulic release bearing)
Trying to piece together a reasonably strong and inexpensive solution.
Thanks in advance, Chris.
#90
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I've been running a Super T10 behind my LS motor for a couple of years. I have two, one will be for sale in a couple of weeks with a fresh rebuild from the racing shop I use. I road race the car and I'm going to a Nascar Dogbox trans. I use a small block bellhousing, a standad LS clutch and flywheel as well as the starter. Nothing Trick. ST10 is a little stronger case than the Muncie. The SMC bellhousing bolts right onto the LS block with the exception of one hole.
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I've read through all of this before posting as well as many other threads and Google searches, just so you know.
I just want to know if it's remotely possible to drop a 4.8 into my 94 v6 Camaro with that t5 just to get it running and temporarily drivable?
Thanks.
I just want to know if it's remotely possible to drop a 4.8 into my 94 v6 Camaro with that t5 just to get it running and temporarily drivable?
Thanks.
Last edited by jackandcoffee; 11-05-2014 at 04:07 AM.
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#96
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ok guys i know im beating a dead horse here but i need some help..im doing my lq4 swap its going it my 91 camaro i have the factory wc t5 my 6.0 is a 99 model with the longer crank, what do i need to work around that any input?
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well the more research i do the more i lean towards going with another tranny. itwill just set me back tht much further, but can i even use a t56? didnt realize the first few years had longer cranks til after i had bought it. I seen this 6.0 on craigslist an jumped on it ive only seen 5.3s around here not many 6.0s at all
Last edited by codyscamaroz28; 04-14-2015 at 10:41 AM.