GearGrinder

iTrader: (1)

1970 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser 6.0/LQ4~LS3/4L60E

I've had a plan to convert this car to LS power and then, almost decided not to to keep it original. 2 weeks ago I was made an offer on the existing engine ( a 455) and took it. Now I have a non-running 18 foot long wagon taking up shop space.

I own an engine shop building performance and road race engines, so the actual engine part of the build I can do, and I'm not scared of electronics either, but what I don't have is time to do all the research I needed to do or a big budget to waste money of incompatible or incorrect parts..

My Questions are.. (Warning they may be dumb questions.)

1. Is there a computer that works with an LS3 (2010 camaro) TB, intake and 2004 6.0L? Which one should I be looking for?

2. do you need a 24x or 58x reluctor to use the LS3 TB and have cruise control?

3. Assuming I can put together a DBW system, what pedal do I need for the LS3 TB? Is there a TAC that I will need too?

4. what factory harness could I start with to make this all work in the end? I need to find a harness, the cheaper the better and I don't mind modifying a factory one if it saves me some money.


So here's what I have so far.
2004 LQ4 (It will be bored .030 w/ LQ9 pistons installed)
I have either 58x or 24x cranks in the shop.
LS3/L92 heads
LS3 throttlebody
~2001 corvette computer (not sure what P/N, just found it on a shelf)
Misc other LS stuff

I have more time than money, I have plenty of tools, CNC machiines etc. so anything I can build make or modify is more attractive to me than spending the money on aftermarket stuff.

thanks in advance

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

The Heads/Intake/TB isnt really a determining factor on what PCM you need, the Block and Crank is what will designate that(Gen 3/Gen4).
I've always preferred the Cable TB's, easier to work with IMO..everything I have has them in. There are plenty of guys here tho that setup DBW, so they can help. It's been done with the LS1 Vettes and they were 24X Factory, so Crankshaft isnt an issue.

I've had good luck using LS1 F-body Harnesses, then again it comes down to what PCM you end up running.

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

1. Is there a computer that works with an LS3 (2010 camaro) TB, intake and 2004 6.0L? Which one should I be looking for?
2010 ecu is 58x reluctor, 04 is 24x reluctor. You could use a 24x reluctor ecu with a 58x coverter but that's not cost effective.

2. do you need a 24x or 58x reluctor to use the LS3 TB and have cruise control?
The cruise conrol will work with either, but it's easier to get the 24x cruise to work.

3. Assuming I can put together a DBW system, what pedal do I need for the LS3 TB? Is there a TAC that I will need too?
Get the pedal, ecu, and TAC from the same vehicle, save yourself a headache. Earlier engines had a TAC, but I dont think anything past 07 has the TAC module.

4. what factory harness could I start with to make this all work in the end? I need to find a harness, the cheaper the better and I don't mind modifying a factory one if it saves me some money.
Try to source the harness, ecu, tac, pedal, for the model/year of the engine.

From your list of parts, I would go with the 24x crank, LQ4 block, L92 heads, 01 ecu (411?). Then just source an aftermarket 4 bolt TB or conversion (speartech) TAC/pedal and pretty much any early DBW harness. I think PSI on here has a killer deal on the pedal/tac. And there's PSI......lol
That route might be easier than going with the 58x crank and sourcing a later, less common, and more expensive pedal/harness/ecu, but you could go either way.

psiconversion

iTrader: (5)

In addition to what Merv said.....

1. If you are running a 24x setup, DBW is easy, just make sure the TAC, Pedal, TB and Tune match. This will be easier for cruise control as well as the 58x E38 controllers would require the use of the BCM.

2. If you are going 58x there is no TAC module. The E38 ecm will take care of the throttle functions and you will only need the correct pedal (we use new GM Corvette pedals).

3. If you decide to go DBC, go 24x as the E38 controller will not support the DBC.

4. LS3 throttle body will work with the 24x however, you will have to run the corvette tac module, pedal and tune. Corvette Tac and Pedals are expensive right now because GM is backordered (I have a feeling they are going to discontinue them).

As Merv said, your harness options are dependent on which crank/controller you decide to go with.

Jon
PSI

GearGrinder

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the replies everyone.

I spend hours last night trying to learn as much as possible. I think I've come up with a basic list of parts I need to source.

From the looks of it and from what you guys have said, trying to use a later ECM is just not worth the effort or cost effective, so I think I have decided to do this:

24x crank
trade or sell my LS3 TB for an LS2 DBW TB (I checked and mine is the gold one)
convert the sensors on the block to LS2 style (knock and cam)
L92 heads
Hopefully the PCM I have is an acceptable one. I haven't looked at the numbers.

Unfortunately my idea of using an LS3 cam looks like it has no solution, but I may try and modify a 3 bolt sprocket to work. If I can't find a way to make a safe and quality fix to the problem, I'll hunt down a LS6 cam. LS3 cams are just so damn cheap

GearGrinder

iTrader: (1)

Well I just ran and picked up my PCM that was donated to this project and it turns out to be a '98 PCM #16238212. I think it is from a corvette, but I have no idea really.

From what I have read so far, it is not that desirable a pcm to use. I haven't found out why yet....

I want to run DBW, 4L60E, LS2 style and location knock sensors and cam sensor. What year PCM and harness should I be looking for?

All F-bodies are DBC, and only late model trucks have DBW, what does that leave me with? LS1 corvette or late truck harness?

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

You can modify an F-body Harness for that..it'll take a little work, but not hard to do.

GearGrinder

iTrader: (1)

any year F-body or does it need to be matched to the PCM, like 99-00 or 01-03 etc.

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

OK, economically, you just made mistake number 1. You're buying stuff piece by piece and trying to get them to work together. I'm not sure if a 212 ecu will run dbw, that should be the first thing to figure out.
If it wont, and you want cruise control, you're probably better off looking for a 411 ecu, pedal, tac, harness package together.

psiconversion

iTrader: (5)

If you are going to run dbw on a 24X with ANYTHING BUT an E40 ecm, you dont want to use a gold bladed LS2 TB. Keep the LS3 TB. Or better yet, if you are on a budget, go with truck stuff. Not car stuff.

Jon
PSI

narx66gmc

Jealous jealous jealous!! This thread is absolutely worthless without pix!!

narx66gmc

Jealous jealous jealous!! This thread is absolutely worthless without pix!!

GearGrinder

iTrader: (1)

I'm confused now.. I thought the gold bladed TB was the one that opens backwards and requires the corvette pedal and TAC that are expensive. I have an LS3 TB that I know came from a 2010 Camaro AND has a gold blade.. can I use it?

I know I should have bought a complete pullout, but this whole project started with leftovers at work: LQ4 block, new set of .030 pistons, LS3 heads etc. etc.

GearGrinder

iTrader: (1)

Here's some pics for ya

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

1999-02 is better..then again you may end up re-pinning it depending on what PCM you use..so the 1998 can be used.

NovaKid

I'm really no help here, but "you could literally cruise the vistas"

skip to 5:30. You'll thank me later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3vqTcanU18

GearGrinder

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Novakid, until I get this swap done the only vista i'll see is the shop wall.

Has anyone had any experience buying a harness from this guy?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/97-07-LS1-DB...#ht_500wt_1413

NovaKid

Not sure about that guy, but Techrods was highly recommended to me by several people on here. In fact, I just bought my wiring harness from them about 3 hours ago on ebay (search "Techrods")

http://techrods.com/index.htm

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

For the price of that harness you could go to pick-a-part get a harness, ecu, tac, pedal from an 00-05 truck witn DBW.
Then check with Speartech. They list adapters for an LS2 4 bolt TB, not sure if the LS3 is different.

psiconversion

iTrader: (5)

Gold plated throttle body (TBSS, some Corvette/GTO) will not work with the older style controllers and tac modules. You need to use the silver bladed one. Maybe somone makes some sort of intermediate controller to do this, but with the factory electronics it wont work.

Jon
PSI