Mini alternate fuel pick-up build thread
03-23-2012, 08:27 AM
#1
Mini alternate fuel pick-up build thread OK I think I have this fuel feed issue figured out for those that are trying to run old carb style pick-ups in there tank with EFI.
It seems we all are trying to keep our fuel at our pick-up with baffles when gravity says when you lean into a curve the gas is going to one side. Its a fight thats hard to win .
Another member on this site told me about these little pick-ups he uses on his rock crawler buggy that walbro makes. They can be located anywhere in your tank and in multiple places. The multiple places thing is what makes this so interesting for those of us that like to go left and right, as well as fast in a straight line.
Wabro built these pick-ups for polaris for there snowmobiles. They call them "smart valves" because if they become uncovered by fuel they shut to keep air out of the system. There is a large aftermarket company also using them in there custom EFI retrofit fuel tanks. And like I said before the rock crawler guys love them.
There are several of these pick-ups avalable , but the ones I used are the MP13 and MP12. Walbro says that , if running multiple pick-ups, one has to have a vent if there is any chance of running out of fuel, If not the valves can all shut and it can take a while for them to reopen. The MP13 has this vent, so on my set-up I put the MP13 as my center pick-up and a MP12 on either side about halfway back in my tank.
Here are a few pics I took along the way that may help someone trying this.
Sense my tank was used before I did this , it was important to flush it really well before any cutting began to keep a spark for ending my project all together!
After flushing the tank, I found a suitable place to cut my access panel. I then cut a cover out of .044 aluminum to cover it back up after the install.
Ok now to locate and plumb the system. I wanted to have the center pick-up as close to the factory location as possible At my local NAPA store, I got a brass cross fitting and four 5/16th brass barb fittings. I also grabbed a foot of submergable rubber hose and a big hand full of clamps. I had some 1/2 aluminum line laying around that I also used. Sense this is all low pressure in the tank, I just used clamps and rubber hose to make connections. After pulling the factory sock off the feed line, I connected it to the cross fitting. Then I used a short piece of aluminum line to locate the center pick-up and made those connections with hose as well.
Next up was locating the left and right pick-ups. After thinking about it for a while I decided to put them about halfway back and as close to the outer edges as possible. These connections were made the same way as the others.
These pick-ups are very light weight and , in my mind ,need to be held in place to keep them from floating around. i am a cheapa$$ , so after looking around I decided to try some PVC that was laying around to cut and wedge between the tank top and the pick-ups. Well about half way through doing just that, the thought crossed my mind that PVC might not be compatable with petro and after a little google, sure enough not a good idea! So a trip to the scrapyard got me 2 stainless shower helper bars for 3.40 and I will get some of that back when I scrap the left over! I cut them to fit snuggly in place.
here is the mock-up outside the tank.
And inside the tank.
I didnt feel comfortable that the holddowns would stay in place by them selves , so I tapped lightly around the tubes from the top of the tank to get witness marks and drilled three holes just inside and against the inside of each tube followed by cap screws. This holds them in place very well !
I then used gas safe epoxy to seal the screws and gas safe sealer on the access panel.
with just 2 gallons of gas I rode around my yard to test the pick-ups ability to keep fuel to the pump . Uphill, downhill and leaning hard to the side both ways never gave a stumble. in this pic my car is sitting and running on a side hill that stalled the car with a 1/4 tank and the factory pick-up. This weekend with a support riding behind me, I will do some more aggressive testing out on the road, but the walbros are doing what they are suppose to do and I am confident this is a cost effective alternative to baffling an old school tank with EFI. Why fight gravity when you can use it to your advantage.
It seems we all are trying to keep our fuel at our pick-up with baffles when gravity says when you lean into a curve the gas is going to one side. Its a fight thats hard to win .
Another member on this site told me about these little pick-ups he uses on his rock crawler buggy that walbro makes. They can be located anywhere in your tank and in multiple places. The multiple places thing is what makes this so interesting for those of us that like to go left and right, as well as fast in a straight line.
Wabro built these pick-ups for polaris for there snowmobiles. They call them "smart valves" because if they become uncovered by fuel they shut to keep air out of the system. There is a large aftermarket company also using them in there custom EFI retrofit fuel tanks. And like I said before the rock crawler guys love them.
There are several of these pick-ups avalable , but the ones I used are the MP13 and MP12. Walbro says that , if running multiple pick-ups, one has to have a vent if there is any chance of running out of fuel, If not the valves can all shut and it can take a while for them to reopen. The MP13 has this vent, so on my set-up I put the MP13 as my center pick-up and a MP12 on either side about halfway back in my tank.
Here are a few pics I took along the way that may help someone trying this.
Sense my tank was used before I did this , it was important to flush it really well before any cutting began to keep a spark for ending my project all together!
After flushing the tank, I found a suitable place to cut my access panel. I then cut a cover out of .044 aluminum to cover it back up after the install.
Ok now to locate and plumb the system. I wanted to have the center pick-up as close to the factory location as possible At my local NAPA store, I got a brass cross fitting and four 5/16th brass barb fittings. I also grabbed a foot of submergable rubber hose and a big hand full of clamps. I had some 1/2 aluminum line laying around that I also used. Sense this is all low pressure in the tank, I just used clamps and rubber hose to make connections. After pulling the factory sock off the feed line, I connected it to the cross fitting. Then I used a short piece of aluminum line to locate the center pick-up and made those connections with hose as well.
Next up was locating the left and right pick-ups. After thinking about it for a while I decided to put them about halfway back and as close to the outer edges as possible. These connections were made the same way as the others.
These pick-ups are very light weight and , in my mind ,need to be held in place to keep them from floating around. i am a cheapa$$ , so after looking around I decided to try some PVC that was laying around to cut and wedge between the tank top and the pick-ups. Well about half way through doing just that, the thought crossed my mind that PVC might not be compatable with petro and after a little google, sure enough not a good idea! So a trip to the scrapyard got me 2 stainless shower helper bars for 3.40 and I will get some of that back when I scrap the left over! I cut them to fit snuggly in place.
here is the mock-up outside the tank.
And inside the tank.
I didnt feel comfortable that the holddowns would stay in place by them selves , so I tapped lightly around the tubes from the top of the tank to get witness marks and drilled three holes just inside and against the inside of each tube followed by cap screws. This holds them in place very well !
I then used gas safe epoxy to seal the screws and gas safe sealer on the access panel.
with just 2 gallons of gas I rode around my yard to test the pick-ups ability to keep fuel to the pump . Uphill, downhill and leaning hard to the side both ways never gave a stumble. in this pic my car is sitting and running on a side hill that stalled the car with a 1/4 tank and the factory pick-up. This weekend with a support riding behind me, I will do some more aggressive testing out on the road, but the walbros are doing what they are suppose to do and I am confident this is a cost effective alternative to baffling an old school tank with EFI. Why fight gravity when you can use it to your advantage.
03-23-2012, 08:53 AM
#2
Good write up on your fuel system. Yes, many are not using those Walbor valves, I know Vaporworks is using these on there 5th Gen F-Body setups as is Ricks Tanks are using them.
But could you give more details on the Pump and sendor unit..Are you using and intank or external pump. ?
But could you give more details on the Pump and sendor unit..Are you using and intank or external pump. ?
03-23-2012, 09:11 AM
#3
Sorry about leaving those details out. The sending unit is just the stock second gen camaro sender and the pump is an external hi-pressure pump that comes with the FAST EZ EFI kit I am running on my LS3.
Stupid me, I didnt do enough research on my fuel system when I built this car with the EFI. It never even crossed my mind that TB EFI would stall if the pick-up was uncovered even for a second or 2. Unlike carbs that have a bowl full of fuel to get you by till the pick-up gets fuel again, say , after you get through a curve, The efi can be dangerous in aggressive driving if it stalls and you have powerbrakes and steering like I do.
Stupid me, I didnt do enough research on my fuel system when I built this car with the EFI. It never even crossed my mind that TB EFI would stall if the pick-up was uncovered even for a second or 2. Unlike carbs that have a bowl full of fuel to get you by till the pick-up gets fuel again, say , after you get through a curve, The efi can be dangerous in aggressive driving if it stalls and you have powerbrakes and steering like I do.
03-23-2012, 10:05 PM
#7
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
Hey newschool, hit me with a link also, please. I'm custom building a tank, and this looks very promising! Thanks!
Trending Topics
03-25-2012, 04:59 PM
#9
Got good news and bad news on the pick-up system . Bad news is my sons camera didnt have enough batteries to video. The good news is THIS CAR IS A BLAST!!! Finally the fuel system will keep up with the cars potential . I can drive the car into a curve at the edge of grip with a 1/4 tank and NO sputter or stall. Works like a charm and I cant wait to get it all broke in and really hammer this beast!! Come on all you new rustangs, challenged, and barby maros. I got cho #!!!!! woooohooo!!!
03-25-2012, 06:02 PM
#10
Launching!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, its cool to hear that that solved your issues so completely!
I found a pic of my setup in my fuel cell, BTW:
That cell is in my buggy:
J. J.
I found a pic of my setup in my fuel cell, BTW:
That cell is in my buggy:
J. J.
Last edited by patooyee; 03-25-2012 at 06:21 PM.
03-25-2012, 07:05 PM
#13
they shut after the small amount of fuel they reserve goes away. that why they call them smart valves. The biggest issue you will run into is if you dont have a vented pickup in the tank(MP13) because if you run out of fuel, all the valves will shut and may not open for a while( all the vacuum has to bleed off).
03-25-2012, 07:06 PM
#14
Launching!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
J. J.
Last edited by patooyee; 03-25-2012 at 07:12 PM.
03-25-2012, 07:28 PM
#15
In ANY normal situation us as gearheads will encounter , theses pick-up will perform to our satisfaction . There are 2 major aftermarket retrofit tank manufactorers using these pick-ups in there tanks. All we are doing is offering an alternative to spending 1000.00 for an EFI tank. I have 140.00 in mine, but I already had a pump (external) plumbed in. I just couldnt run below a half tank without the risk of stalling out in the twisties. Those that have DEEP pockets will find what they need in the aftermarket. This is for those people , like me, that are pinching those pennies!!!!
03-25-2012, 11:15 PM
#18
TECH Regular
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waxahachie, Tx
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Auto Performance Engineering has them
Vaporworx has them and has done extensive testing according to their site.
try google since you can't post non sponser links.....
I'd use 3/8 or bigger instead of 5/16 on the p/u for straight line acc. if your making some power.
Vaporworx has them and has done extensive testing according to their site.
try google since you can't post non sponser links.....
I'd use 3/8 or bigger instead of 5/16 on the p/u for straight line acc. if your making some power.
03-26-2012, 06:33 AM
#19
I used the 5/16ths because i have 3 of them feeding a 3/8ths sender and it would be unlikely that more than 1 would be uncovered at any given time and if 2 were uncovered it wouldnt be for very long at all ie...very low fuel at hi-Gs. And im only making around 530ish at the flywheel, so no real need for a monster fuel system.
04-19-2012, 09:54 AM
#20
Staging Lane
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mill Creek/Lynnwood, WA
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has anyone used this with an in-tank fuel pump? I've heard the external pumps are really noise.
Newschool72 where did you actually position the pick ups? Why did you use 3?
Newschool72 where did you actually position the pick ups? Why did you use 3?
