Suggestions for an LS in a 1971 Impala
10-30-2013, 03:35 PM
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Suggestions for an LS in a 1971 Impala Hi everybody! (in my Dr. Nick voice)
I'm going to be getting my hands dirty with an LS swap soon and wanted some suggestions. I know I want to go with an iron block (car is really low, and I drive it on less than perfect roads sometimes; concerned about bottoming out and cracking the block), and want to start out with a carb'd setup (tuning sessions get expensive quickly), and while horsepower is nice, I need torque more than anything else. The recipient vehicle is a '71 Impala that has had quite a few hot SBC engines, (last one being a 503HP/483TQ n/a 383 stroker w/ a 200 shot that was never used), a built TH350 w/ 3000 stall, and 3:73's. I also want to keep the TH350 for strength (an OD setup will come later on). I don't mind a really choppy cam (the last set-up had a .550 solid cam), and fuel mileage is a concern, just not a very big one...I figure the timing accuracy of the coil-pack system will be enough of an upgrade for me because, well, the old set-up might have gotten 10 mpg? Maybe 12? I'd also like it to stay pump friendly, but am not adverse to sloshing some Cam2 in there every once and a while. I would also like the option of hitting it with a 100-150 shot, but don't want to rely on it.
I was stuck on a LQ4/9 setup, heads and a cam, but over the past couple of days have been 'enlightened' to the 5.3's...I'd written them off in the past due to not wanting to turbo or supercharge, and most of the '5.3 hero engines' I've seen were UN-naturally aspirated...so...
...if it's a 6.0, what's the head and cam suggestion, and if it's a 5.3, what's the head and cam suggestion? I don't have an unlimited budget, but i do know that LS swaps aren't cheap when done correctly...I'm going to be doing all of the wrenching, fabbing, etc., as well as as much tuning that I can safely accomplish (carb'd is only gonna be timing curve on the 6010 for now; AF tuning will be done later). I intend on buying a dropout so that whenever I do change it to FI, I'll have everything, though buying a non-dropout and going with a FAST set-up later isn't out of the question either...
...ok...if you've made it this far, thanks...now, what are your thoughts?
I'm going to be getting my hands dirty with an LS swap soon and wanted some suggestions. I know I want to go with an iron block (car is really low, and I drive it on less than perfect roads sometimes; concerned about bottoming out and cracking the block), and want to start out with a carb'd setup (tuning sessions get expensive quickly), and while horsepower is nice, I need torque more than anything else. The recipient vehicle is a '71 Impala that has had quite a few hot SBC engines, (last one being a 503HP/483TQ n/a 383 stroker w/ a 200 shot that was never used), a built TH350 w/ 3000 stall, and 3:73's. I also want to keep the TH350 for strength (an OD setup will come later on). I don't mind a really choppy cam (the last set-up had a .550 solid cam), and fuel mileage is a concern, just not a very big one...I figure the timing accuracy of the coil-pack system will be enough of an upgrade for me because, well, the old set-up might have gotten 10 mpg? Maybe 12? I'd also like it to stay pump friendly, but am not adverse to sloshing some Cam2 in there every once and a while. I would also like the option of hitting it with a 100-150 shot, but don't want to rely on it.
I was stuck on a LQ4/9 setup, heads and a cam, but over the past couple of days have been 'enlightened' to the 5.3's...I'd written them off in the past due to not wanting to turbo or supercharge, and most of the '5.3 hero engines' I've seen were UN-naturally aspirated...so...
...if it's a 6.0, what's the head and cam suggestion, and if it's a 5.3, what's the head and cam suggestion? I don't have an unlimited budget, but i do know that LS swaps aren't cheap when done correctly...I'm going to be doing all of the wrenching, fabbing, etc., as well as as much tuning that I can safely accomplish (carb'd is only gonna be timing curve on the 6010 for now; AF tuning will be done later). I intend on buying a dropout so that whenever I do change it to FI, I'll have everything, though buying a non-dropout and going with a FAST set-up later isn't out of the question either...
...ok...if you've made it this far, thanks...now, what are your thoughts?
Last edited by VerbalKent; 10-30-2013 at 05:31 PM.
10-30-2013, 07:31 PM
#3
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Welcome to the forums. I happen to be near Baltimore too. Elkridge.
A few thoughts....
There's no advantage to going with an iron block. They are cheaper and you'll probably find more for sale, but they are going to be higher mileage motors and getting ready to need a rebuild. I believe they stopped using iron blocks in the trucks in 2004. With a huge car like the Impala (I have a '65) you might want to look into the aluminum blocks anyway, and shave the weight.
Transmission...perfectly fine to go with your TH350, but the 4L60e is plenty strong up to like 600hp. if you are concerned about strength beyond that point, you could get the 4L80e, which is about as bulletproof as they can get. On top of that, you'll love the extra gear and fuel economy.
Tuning sessions....most of us don't take the car in to get tuned over and over. We just send the computer out to places like PCM Performance, etc, and tell them everything done to the car (headers, intake, exhaust, transmission, rear end ratio, etc) and they tune the computer accordingly. they will also pull about 20-30 more hp out of your engine with their tune.
If I could make a suggestion...I would advise to figure out what you want to do with this engine/transmission/car now, and avoid waiting to make changes later on. That is just going to cost you tons more money in the long run (take it from someone who has made the mistake himself). If you want FI, aim for that. If you want a 4 speed trans, get it now. I bet I would have $3,000 more in the bank right now if I had just spent the money up front and done things the right way from the start.
A few thoughts....
There's no advantage to going with an iron block. They are cheaper and you'll probably find more for sale, but they are going to be higher mileage motors and getting ready to need a rebuild. I believe they stopped using iron blocks in the trucks in 2004. With a huge car like the Impala (I have a '65) you might want to look into the aluminum blocks anyway, and shave the weight.
Transmission...perfectly fine to go with your TH350, but the 4L60e is plenty strong up to like 600hp. if you are concerned about strength beyond that point, you could get the 4L80e, which is about as bulletproof as they can get. On top of that, you'll love the extra gear and fuel economy.
Tuning sessions....most of us don't take the car in to get tuned over and over. We just send the computer out to places like PCM Performance, etc, and tell them everything done to the car (headers, intake, exhaust, transmission, rear end ratio, etc) and they tune the computer accordingly. they will also pull about 20-30 more hp out of your engine with their tune.
If I could make a suggestion...I would advise to figure out what you want to do with this engine/transmission/car now, and avoid waiting to make changes later on. That is just going to cost you tons more money in the long run (take it from someone who has made the mistake himself). If you want FI, aim for that. If you want a 4 speed trans, get it now. I bet I would have $3,000 more in the bank right now if I had just spent the money up front and done things the right way from the start.
10-31-2013, 12:12 AM
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Thanks SuperDave!
I appreciate the welcome and honest feedback...if you're saying the aluminum block will survive in real world situations (read: not just a track car, drifter, or other application that sees little street uses), I'll take your word for it and revise my search...the fact that you have a '65, and know what kind of garbage streets are in some areas around here also helps give credence to your suggestions about the block...plus I'm already low, so shaving some nose weight off would be a plus...I take it I'm looking an H3 pan to avoid having to notch the crossmember?
My main issue with not doing a '60 off the bat was fitment concerns...I replaced one in my Tahoe, and it's not exactly 'light', so the notion of fitting/ fighting one into the Impala on my back wasn't something I was looking forward to doing...the TH350 is 'the devil I know', and I have a few bucks in the rebuild (couple months old), but the OD feature would definitely be a plus as it looks like my 3:73's might be a bit tame for an LS setup in this car...I'm thinking 4:11's (or a bit more?) wouldn't be out of the realm of believability. 600HP? Hmmm...I didn't know that...I had to replace the '60 in my Tahoe and it has no performance upgrades...then I found that GM put flaky sun shells in 'em, so I figured putting one behind a performance engine would just be starting the stopwatch to destruction...any idea how much it would cost to get a '60 done to last, and where around here could do it? I was thinking Southern Automatic, or Whitcraft, but if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.
I'm now on the fence with the FI vs. carb'd decision...it's not a DD, but when I do drive it, I drive it! I am intrigued by the ability to get a more accurate tune over a carb, but i tend to tinker and the thought of having to ping every considerable change off of a re-flash was what concerned me...but believe me, FI isn't out of the running by any means...the $500-600 I'd spend on the intake and 6010, plus another carb (I'm figuring the 750 dbl. pumper I have wouldn't be enough to keep on the car, but would be good enough to get me going) would probably cover the initial flash, hence the 'fuel for my flip-flop'...
What I'd like to end up with is a setup that has what I had (503HP/483TQ, flywheel), that can take a 150 shot if the need arises. I may take it to the track occasionally, but won't be a regular there...just show up, have people think it's 'too pretty' to run, turn a good number, and ride off into the sunset. I'd like to do this without doing a complete rebuild, and would love it if I could get close with just a cam change and tune (I know...insert laughter here, but anything's possible?). I'm thinking if I go FI, I should have enough hood clearance to leave the truck intake on since it makes a bit more torque (guess I'll be going FI)...
...so is any of this realistic without spending a million dollars, or am I just chasing a dream?
Again...thanks for taking the time; I appreciate 'ya!
I appreciate the welcome and honest feedback...if you're saying the aluminum block will survive in real world situations (read: not just a track car, drifter, or other application that sees little street uses), I'll take your word for it and revise my search...the fact that you have a '65, and know what kind of garbage streets are in some areas around here also helps give credence to your suggestions about the block...plus I'm already low, so shaving some nose weight off would be a plus...I take it I'm looking an H3 pan to avoid having to notch the crossmember?
My main issue with not doing a '60 off the bat was fitment concerns...I replaced one in my Tahoe, and it's not exactly 'light', so the notion of fitting/ fighting one into the Impala on my back wasn't something I was looking forward to doing...the TH350 is 'the devil I know', and I have a few bucks in the rebuild (couple months old), but the OD feature would definitely be a plus as it looks like my 3:73's might be a bit tame for an LS setup in this car...I'm thinking 4:11's (or a bit more?) wouldn't be out of the realm of believability. 600HP? Hmmm...I didn't know that...I had to replace the '60 in my Tahoe and it has no performance upgrades...then I found that GM put flaky sun shells in 'em, so I figured putting one behind a performance engine would just be starting the stopwatch to destruction...any idea how much it would cost to get a '60 done to last, and where around here could do it? I was thinking Southern Automatic, or Whitcraft, but if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.
I'm now on the fence with the FI vs. carb'd decision...it's not a DD, but when I do drive it, I drive it! I am intrigued by the ability to get a more accurate tune over a carb, but i tend to tinker and the thought of having to ping every considerable change off of a re-flash was what concerned me...but believe me, FI isn't out of the running by any means...the $500-600 I'd spend on the intake and 6010, plus another carb (I'm figuring the 750 dbl. pumper I have wouldn't be enough to keep on the car, but would be good enough to get me going) would probably cover the initial flash, hence the 'fuel for my flip-flop'...
What I'd like to end up with is a setup that has what I had (503HP/483TQ, flywheel), that can take a 150 shot if the need arises. I may take it to the track occasionally, but won't be a regular there...just show up, have people think it's 'too pretty' to run, turn a good number, and ride off into the sunset. I'd like to do this without doing a complete rebuild, and would love it if I could get close with just a cam change and tune (I know...insert laughter here, but anything's possible?). I'm thinking if I go FI, I should have enough hood clearance to leave the truck intake on since it makes a bit more torque (guess I'll be going FI)...
...so is any of this realistic without spending a million dollars, or am I just chasing a dream?
Again...thanks for taking the time; I appreciate 'ya!
10-31-2013, 02:34 AM
#5
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Oh it's definitely not impossible to get those numbers. I have to admit I know nothing about carbing these engines. Last carb I ran was many years ago on a street/race Trans Am I used to have. But if you're thinking FI, you're in line with about 90% of the guys who do this swap. Huge horsepower can be made with easy upgrades, and the car will be dependable and totally driveable.
As far as the aluminum block and the 4L60e's go, keep in mind that a 2005-2006 GTO comes with that exact setup (the setup I chose for my car too). 400+hp stock, 3600 lb car, 20+mpg easy. My Impala with the aluminum block...I'm guessing around 3800 lbs.
And "stock" is just the beginning. Super Chevy did an article in 2008 about LS1 and LS2 upgrades. Just adding headers to an LS2 took it from 405 hp to 462 hp. I have long tubes, a tune, and a cold air intake. I don't know what horsepower number I will have in the end, but it'll be on the upper end of 400 that's for sure. You can make similar numbers with a truck motor, but you're gonna have to swap the cam, and maybe heads (depending on what heads you get with the motor....243 heads are what everyone wants). Cam swaps are not cheap (compared to SBC or BBC swaps), but you can do it for about $400ish. You can find heads pretty cheap on ebay. I have seen 243 heads as cheap as $500 on Ebay.
The Hummer pan is what I have, but the Impala line changed in 1971, so you and I have different frames, and probably different steering linkage, etc too. There's a good chance it will fit your application just fine, but it DOES hang a little low. I am on airbags and needed everything out of the way, so I raised my engine by extending the frameside and engineside motor mounts. This pulled my exhaust up as well as the pan, allowing me to get the car as low as possible. In my case, the truck intake definitely would not fit under the hood. If you don't raise your engine, you can PROBABLY fit it, but I can't guarantee that. If you are looking for a shallower pan, the Holley LS swap pan is the way to go....but it's about double the price of the Hummer pan. I have also heard the F-Body pan works well, but I have never seven seen one in real life.
For my gears, I am doing 4.10s. It's a perfectly streetable gear even with a 3 speed trans, and with 4, it's a no-brainer. Everything I have owned I put 4.10s in. I ain't skeert.
I'm not sure the 4L60 is any heavier than the TH350. Mine has an aluminum case, and I have pulled it out and put it in by myself a few times for fitment....didn't have any issues. Getting the engine AND transmission in for the final time, by myself, gave me some real problems though. Just a bad day all around.
I know nothing about nitrous, as I have never used it. I know a lot of guys say the 5.3 is better for the turbos or a supercharger because it has thicker cylinder walls than the 6.0 or 6.2 does....which, I guess is TRUE, it would have to be slightly thicker....but that whole idea sounds like an urban legend to me. I think any of these engines can handle pretty much anything you throw at it up to 600ish hp, with some exceptions, of course.
In your case, any 5.3 or 6.0 will make similar hp stock (about 330). A cam and a tune could get you to the 400s. Heads, cam and a tune, mid 400s, maybe a bit more. Orrrrrrrrrr you could do like I did, wait for a great deal on an LS2 and jump on that instead. Like I said, I will be pushing the 500 hp mark, and I haven't really touched it yet. And not only is it powerful, it's a whole lot prettier than those ugly truck motors are.
You might appreciate the fuel rail covers I made too (converted the GTO covers that came with the engine)
As far as the aluminum block and the 4L60e's go, keep in mind that a 2005-2006 GTO comes with that exact setup (the setup I chose for my car too). 400+hp stock, 3600 lb car, 20+mpg easy. My Impala with the aluminum block...I'm guessing around 3800 lbs.
And "stock" is just the beginning. Super Chevy did an article in 2008 about LS1 and LS2 upgrades. Just adding headers to an LS2 took it from 405 hp to 462 hp. I have long tubes, a tune, and a cold air intake. I don't know what horsepower number I will have in the end, but it'll be on the upper end of 400 that's for sure. You can make similar numbers with a truck motor, but you're gonna have to swap the cam, and maybe heads (depending on what heads you get with the motor....243 heads are what everyone wants). Cam swaps are not cheap (compared to SBC or BBC swaps), but you can do it for about $400ish. You can find heads pretty cheap on ebay. I have seen 243 heads as cheap as $500 on Ebay.
The Hummer pan is what I have, but the Impala line changed in 1971, so you and I have different frames, and probably different steering linkage, etc too. There's a good chance it will fit your application just fine, but it DOES hang a little low. I am on airbags and needed everything out of the way, so I raised my engine by extending the frameside and engineside motor mounts. This pulled my exhaust up as well as the pan, allowing me to get the car as low as possible. In my case, the truck intake definitely would not fit under the hood. If you don't raise your engine, you can PROBABLY fit it, but I can't guarantee that. If you are looking for a shallower pan, the Holley LS swap pan is the way to go....but it's about double the price of the Hummer pan. I have also heard the F-Body pan works well, but I have never seven seen one in real life.
For my gears, I am doing 4.10s. It's a perfectly streetable gear even with a 3 speed trans, and with 4, it's a no-brainer. Everything I have owned I put 4.10s in. I ain't skeert.
I'm not sure the 4L60 is any heavier than the TH350. Mine has an aluminum case, and I have pulled it out and put it in by myself a few times for fitment....didn't have any issues. Getting the engine AND transmission in for the final time, by myself, gave me some real problems though. Just a bad day all around.
I know nothing about nitrous, as I have never used it. I know a lot of guys say the 5.3 is better for the turbos or a supercharger because it has thicker cylinder walls than the 6.0 or 6.2 does....which, I guess is TRUE, it would have to be slightly thicker....but that whole idea sounds like an urban legend to me. I think any of these engines can handle pretty much anything you throw at it up to 600ish hp, with some exceptions, of course.
In your case, any 5.3 or 6.0 will make similar hp stock (about 330). A cam and a tune could get you to the 400s. Heads, cam and a tune, mid 400s, maybe a bit more. Orrrrrrrrrr you could do like I did, wait for a great deal on an LS2 and jump on that instead. Like I said, I will be pushing the 500 hp mark, and I haven't really touched it yet. And not only is it powerful, it's a whole lot prettier than those ugly truck motors are.
You might appreciate the fuel rail covers I made too (converted the GTO covers that came with the engine)
Last edited by superdave84; 10-31-2013 at 02:40 AM.
10-31-2013, 11:20 AM
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This is some great information, thanks man!!!
Yeah, I'm hearing that carb tuning is a breeze, but that there's a 'messy' learning curve before you get to the 'promised land'...checking out the success of the guys in the carb'd forum gave me a lot of hope and proof that it can be done, but the notion of a start and go car, even with an epileptic cam choppin' like a drunk ginsu chef is really intriguing to me...the fuel economy is the icing on the cake. Did you have to sump your tank, add a drop in pump or did you use an external pump and that swap filter?
I think we've actually met! When you said you were on air, I remembered a '65 with a swap that I saw at Marley station one weekend...you did an F-100 (I think) as well for your lady, right?
Anywhooo, I do recall the articles that you've mentioned...it seems that these engines respond ridiculously well to simple 'breathing exercises' (headers, CAI, and of course, heads) coupled with a good tune.
Thanks for the heads up on the pan; I'll see if I can get a deal on that Holley piece (I saw it, but the price made me look for other options) and if not, I'll roll the dice on the H2 pan and have the TIG on stand-by LOL.
Also, thank for the info on the '60; I'll continue to research that as a 'now option' seeing as how I do want more gear, but don't like to be all tach'd up on the highway... I drive the car for hundreds of miles sometimes (going back home, events, etc.) and it really sucks to have all that time added to the trip due to low-pros and gears...the 3:73's and a 25 and some change-ish mounted tire height really has me looking forward to OD.
Again...thanks for your time...this is all pretty new to me being a 'conventional' SBC guy for so long, but the cost of doing a 383 (or better) the right way is pretty close to doing a swap, and the advantages once it's in are too numerous to ignore...I wanna take the plunge, I just don't wanna drown while doing it! I'm starting this swap now for a spring 'return to the streets', so I'm thinking I'm giving myself enough time to pull all of this off and do it correctly.
Oh! Before I forget, nice work on the fuel rail covers; they look like they should have a GM part number!!! And you're right, the car setups are nicer looking than the trucks, but as long as it moves the car the right way, I'll take either one!
Yeah, I'm hearing that carb tuning is a breeze, but that there's a 'messy' learning curve before you get to the 'promised land'...checking out the success of the guys in the carb'd forum gave me a lot of hope and proof that it can be done, but the notion of a start and go car, even with an epileptic cam choppin' like a drunk ginsu chef is really intriguing to me...the fuel economy is the icing on the cake. Did you have to sump your tank, add a drop in pump or did you use an external pump and that swap filter?
I think we've actually met! When you said you were on air, I remembered a '65 with a swap that I saw at Marley station one weekend...you did an F-100 (I think) as well for your lady, right?
Anywhooo, I do recall the articles that you've mentioned...it seems that these engines respond ridiculously well to simple 'breathing exercises' (headers, CAI, and of course, heads) coupled with a good tune.
Thanks for the heads up on the pan; I'll see if I can get a deal on that Holley piece (I saw it, but the price made me look for other options) and if not, I'll roll the dice on the H2 pan and have the TIG on stand-by LOL.
Also, thank for the info on the '60; I'll continue to research that as a 'now option' seeing as how I do want more gear, but don't like to be all tach'd up on the highway... I drive the car for hundreds of miles sometimes (going back home, events, etc.) and it really sucks to have all that time added to the trip due to low-pros and gears...the 3:73's and a 25 and some change-ish mounted tire height really has me looking forward to OD.
Again...thanks for your time...this is all pretty new to me being a 'conventional' SBC guy for so long, but the cost of doing a 383 (or better) the right way is pretty close to doing a swap, and the advantages once it's in are too numerous to ignore...I wanna take the plunge, I just don't wanna drown while doing it! I'm starting this swap now for a spring 'return to the streets', so I'm thinking I'm giving myself enough time to pull all of this off and do it correctly.
Oh! Before I forget, nice work on the fuel rail covers; they look like they should have a GM part number!!! And you're right, the car setups are nicer looking than the trucks, but as long as it moves the car the right way, I'll take either one!
10-31-2013, 12:10 PM
#7
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Actually, no, that's not me, but I do know him. We met when he was looking for seats for his Impala, and he bought mine. We've stayed in touch since.
I welded a sump in the tank, and am using an external Walbro pump mounted to the frame rail. Corvette filter/regulator ahead of that.
I felt the same way about the truck/car motor thing. As long as it worked, I didn't care. However after doing all the work to get the truck motor to fit, the intake swap, the accessory bracket swap, fuel rail swap, and countless other little changes that kept draining my wallet, I decided to scrap the project and get a motor set up to be in a car. No mods necessary. The 5.3 I had originally was a bad engine anyway, and no one could tell me what was wrong with it....not even a guy who works on these engines for GM.
Oh and if you haven't seen it, here's a link to my build thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...-5-3-swap.html
I welded a sump in the tank, and am using an external Walbro pump mounted to the frame rail. Corvette filter/regulator ahead of that.
I felt the same way about the truck/car motor thing. As long as it worked, I didn't care. However after doing all the work to get the truck motor to fit, the intake swap, the accessory bracket swap, fuel rail swap, and countless other little changes that kept draining my wallet, I decided to scrap the project and get a motor set up to be in a car. No mods necessary. The 5.3 I had originally was a bad engine anyway, and no one could tell me what was wrong with it....not even a guy who works on these engines for GM.
Oh and if you haven't seen it, here's a link to my build thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...-5-3-swap.html
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11-01-2013, 11:05 AM
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Just following up...I saw the thread and was thoroughly impressed! This is the level to which that I tend to work, so I couldn't help but smile as I looked at the fabrication...I installed a CTS-V interior (front and rear seats) in mine and will probably re-do the doors and dash once I get the drivetrain decided upon and sorted. Besides making the mounting studs, it was pretty easy actually...the rear set-up just tension mounted like factory...I had to adjust the top rear slots on the package tray, but that was no biggie...I built a circuit for the seat power and voila! Goodbye bench, hello comfy leather!
Great build man...it has me thinking that maybe I should go conventional right now, and build a serious setup at my leisure...by me wanting big block output (more TQ down low than HP up high), it may take me longer than my 6 month build time due to the money aspect...do you think I could end up with a 500HP/ 500TQ (or higher torque?) setup for $5K in the car, tuned and running? Even if the HP is lower, as long as the torque is 450 ft.lbs or better, I think I'll be okay till next winter when I'd probably be going back through it...whaddya think?
Oh, if only I didn't have this pesky mortgage, fatherly duties, and other real world responsibilities, I could actually finish my toys the way I want to!
Great build man...it has me thinking that maybe I should go conventional right now, and build a serious setup at my leisure...by me wanting big block output (more TQ down low than HP up high), it may take me longer than my 6 month build time due to the money aspect...do you think I could end up with a 500HP/ 500TQ (or higher torque?) setup for $5K in the car, tuned and running? Even if the HP is lower, as long as the torque is 450 ft.lbs or better, I think I'll be okay till next winter when I'd probably be going back through it...whaddya think?
Oh, if only I didn't have this pesky mortgage, fatherly duties, and other real world responsibilities, I could actually finish my toys the way I want to!
11-01-2013, 01:19 PM
#10
TECH Resident
Thanks! It's been a long, hard road, but hopefully soon it'll be coming to an end...for now.
I don't have exact numbers for what you can expect in torque, however it seems that everywhere I look, the horsepower numbers are very similar to the torque numbers in this engine family. If the hp/torque numbers aren't near identical, the torque number is usually the higher of the two.
for instance, a stock "truck" 6.0 makes about 330 hp, and has about 360 ft lb or torque.
A stock 5.3 has about 315 hp, 335 ft lbs of torque.
A stock LS2 (Corvette, GTO) has 405 hp, 400 ft lbs of torque.
L76 (Pontiac G8 GT) 360 hp, 375 in torque.
Just a guess (perhaps others with dynoed cars can verify) but I would assume that if you do as I mentioned earlier, and do a cam swap and heads, you'll start approaching the 500 hp mark. Your torque numbers, I assume, should be similar numbers.
Put the 4.10s out back and you'll certainly feel the torque your engine is producing.
$5,000. Mmmm, doable, I guess, if you find great deals. It's the little things that add up. My 5.3 was only about $750 from Bow Auto in NH. But I needed to buy all new bracketry, a new intake, a CAI, fuel lines, etc etc. My LS2 was $3,200, and I was able to sell the headers that came with it for $700 (so essentially I paid $2,500). Had to buy spark plugs and wires, and make a CAI for it but other than that it was ready to go. Keep checking ebay for "complete dropout" motors. Or "liftout" or "drop out" or lift out" "silverado engine" "tahoe motor" "Seirra engine". It will make you crazy checking things over and over like that, but that's how to find the deals. I got very lucky finding mine, and it was because it was listed as "LS2GTO engine". This meant no one could find it except me. I was the only bidder.
You may or may not get that lucky, but I will tell you that the truck motors are far more common, and therefore, more affordable. It's just that they take more time and money to up the hp to the level you want.
Steer clear of craigslist unless you can hear the engine running before it's pulled. It's fine to buy PARTS from craigslist, but personally I wouldn't buy a full engine from anyone when I had no way of checking their reputation.
I don't have exact numbers for what you can expect in torque, however it seems that everywhere I look, the horsepower numbers are very similar to the torque numbers in this engine family. If the hp/torque numbers aren't near identical, the torque number is usually the higher of the two.
for instance, a stock "truck" 6.0 makes about 330 hp, and has about 360 ft lb or torque.
A stock 5.3 has about 315 hp, 335 ft lbs of torque.
A stock LS2 (Corvette, GTO) has 405 hp, 400 ft lbs of torque.
L76 (Pontiac G8 GT) 360 hp, 375 in torque.
Just a guess (perhaps others with dynoed cars can verify) but I would assume that if you do as I mentioned earlier, and do a cam swap and heads, you'll start approaching the 500 hp mark. Your torque numbers, I assume, should be similar numbers.
Put the 4.10s out back and you'll certainly feel the torque your engine is producing.
$5,000. Mmmm, doable, I guess, if you find great deals. It's the little things that add up. My 5.3 was only about $750 from Bow Auto in NH. But I needed to buy all new bracketry, a new intake, a CAI, fuel lines, etc etc. My LS2 was $3,200, and I was able to sell the headers that came with it for $700 (so essentially I paid $2,500). Had to buy spark plugs and wires, and make a CAI for it but other than that it was ready to go. Keep checking ebay for "complete dropout" motors. Or "liftout" or "drop out" or lift out" "silverado engine" "tahoe motor" "Seirra engine". It will make you crazy checking things over and over like that, but that's how to find the deals. I got very lucky finding mine, and it was because it was listed as "LS2GTO engine". This meant no one could find it except me. I was the only bidder.
You may or may not get that lucky, but I will tell you that the truck motors are far more common, and therefore, more affordable. It's just that they take more time and money to up the hp to the level you want.
Steer clear of craigslist unless you can hear the engine running before it's pulled. It's fine to buy PARTS from craigslist, but personally I wouldn't buy a full engine from anyone when I had no way of checking their reputation.
11-01-2013, 03:02 PM
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Thanks for the advice...I've definitely been going nuts with all the repetitive searches, but like you said, it's the only way to find the deals...I've been doing the 'liftout', 'dropout, and even 'LS Swap Project' (that one yields more accessories than engines) because I want the whole ball of wax for that drive train...I actually am kicking myself for missing out on a 113K LQ4 dropout that would have been $1600 to the door (from Bow Auto)...I know in most other instances a 100K+ engine would be a no-no, but the LS's don't seem to care until around 200K anyway as long as they're maintained...I've got at least 110K on my Tahoe and it's never given me a minute's trouble engine-wise...I also agree with staying away from CL for the exact reason that you listed...either way, things go wrong, but at least if someone's reputation is on the line via feedback, you have some recourse...that, and 'Buyer's Protection', which has saved me on more than a couple purchases...
...I'll see what I can find going the 'uncommon search criteria' route, and hope that not too many other people read this before I get lucky!
Thanks Dave!!
...I'll see what I can find going the 'uncommon search criteria' route, and hope that not too many other people read this before I get lucky!
Thanks Dave!!
11-01-2013, 04:20 PM
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Do you have any opinions/ horror stories about using an older Vette engine? I'm seeing a lot of low mileage (50-75K) LS-1's out of C5s. They seem to start out at about 345 HP, and as you stated earlier, are definitely set up for a car 'in the first place' (might even be able to re-use the pan?).
I don't see a lot of them being done in the forums, but I didn't know if it was because I didn't look hard enough, or because the 6.0 truck stuff is so much more affordable (initially)...are the older LS-1 engines even worth seriously considering?
I don't see a lot of them being done in the forums, but I didn't know if it was because I didn't look hard enough, or because the 6.0 truck stuff is so much more affordable (initially)...are the older LS-1 engines even worth seriously considering?
11-01-2013, 04:32 PM
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11-01-2013, 04:59 PM
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Haha thank you. Unfortunately I am WAY too slow at everything I do to make any money doing it. I do help out the neighbors and friends though.....when I have the time
11-01-2013, 05:11 PM
#16
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Do you have any opinions/ horror stories about using an older Vette engine? I'm seeing a lot of low mileage (50-75K) LS-1's out of C5s. They seem to start out at about 345 HP, and as you stated earlier, are definitely set up for a car 'in the first place' (might even be able to re-use the pan?).
I don't see a lot of them being done in the forums, but I didn't know if it was because I didn't look hard enough, or because the 6.0 truck stuff is so much more affordable (initially)...are the older LS-1 engines even worth seriously considering?
I don't see a lot of them being done in the forums, but I didn't know if it was because I didn't look hard enough, or because the 6.0 truck stuff is so much more affordable (initially)...are the older LS-1 engines even worth seriously considering?
The Vette pans are usually goofy and fitted only to a Corvette. You might get lucky and find one that fits, but don't count on it.
Also something to consider, the transmission. A Corvette transmission is in two pieces, one in the normal position, and one at the rear of the car. The engine itself can be used, but the computer will need to be retuned to work with a normal transmission (so I hear, anyway. You might want to look into this by contacting an actual tuner).
The easier method, as well as the safer method, is to find a complete pullout with transmission and engine, harness, computer, etc. That way you KNOW everything meshes properly, both mechanically and electrically. You CAN do it in pieces, but that can get costly, and there are chances to run into compatability issues.
11-02-2013, 01:13 AM
#20
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