JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

So, I want more power, but I don't really want to pull the motor and change everything around. So I was looking at a D-1SC Prochager, 8-Rib, twin 4.5" intercooler Setup from Bob @ Brutespeed with some 60lbs Siemens Dekas.

I have about 11.2:1 CR, so we're going to try to limit the boost to about 7 PSI; I plan to restall my converter to tighten it up from the ~4200 loose NA converter to a tighter 3600-3800 from CircleD.

I plan to keep my cam. An EPS 234/242 111+3.

What appeals to me about this setup is the high compression and big overlap cam + boost for a very explosive car. If I add moderate boost and tune with 10-12 degrees @ WOT, what can I expect in terms of power with the added compression and overlap? Will it be faster than a more boost friendly cam? Looking for anyone who has experience with bigger overlap cams and a Procharger setup.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Funny you mention this because this is exactly what I'd like to do, but I am nervous that my build and compression won't like it lol

427zm

iTrader: (9)

This is what I'm talking about Jake! I saw your other thread on staying w/ an NA build and didn't comment b/c you seemed dead set on staying NA. IMO, if you're staying NA at anything less than 4.125 bore, I believe you're better off staying with stock cubes and going FI. It just makes more sense in $ per HP. Also, NA is much tougher to make big power with... The line is very fine and the combo has to be pretty spot on. FI is much forgiving, there's more margin for error while still making big power... i.e. The came doesn't have to be perfect, the lifters don't have to be the best, the heads don't have to be the baddest heads around to still make great power.

MMorgan9812

iTrader: (6)

sub'd Jake you know why lol

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Yeah. I have a good motor now. Adding a few lbs of boost to it... well it'd walk the 418 I was looking at building.

I may eventually move to an LS2 or LS3 block and forge it and run the upgraded TEA Stage 3 heads. But that's not much more expensive than rebuilding this bottom end and keeping everything the same. I'd probably go back to Geoff and have him spec me a better cam for the "part 2 of FI build" as there is no reason to invest in a solid roller setup when the hydraulic setup I have is pretty stout.

I'd probably stick the D1 for the time being, and shoot for about 750-800rwhp after building the motor... simply so I don't have to then reinvest in a better trans. Any more and it's 4L80 time. But if I get belt slip, I'll look at the smallest F1 to get better wrap and more efficiency out of the blower.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

And this is why FI is crazy... I was just thinking, I'll do the 80lbs injectors. Grab the Lonnies Double Pumper kit... and be good for 700rwhp all day. But if I add the Nasty Performance fuel rails and lines... I'm good to 1000rwhp. Overbuild!

And then, well an F1A would be good. I'd pulley down to keep the twin 4.5s happy (I doubt I could run the big single with everything else I have going on with my car); so that means I'd be limited to about 12-14psi with the F1A... but I would get more belt wrap vs the D1. Would that work with the 8-rib or do I need the Aster even at 12-14psi aand the F1A? I don't even know what size that pulley is.

And then with a built 402 (why not - more overall power throughout the range); TEA Stage 3 heads with 10.1:1 CR; optimized cam... even with 12psi that's probably what 800rwhp?

427zm

iTrader: (9)

Exactly. Jake, wait until you go to an event where you run a bunch of FI cars with serious power. It gets crazy fast. Also, yes to F1A, and yes to LS3's.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Yeah... in looking at other 402/408 builds with an F1A... and something like a 4.75" pulley (tons of wrap), they are seeing 12-13psi and hitting 800rwhp.

That seems like the answer. And since I'd probably limit the car to 6500RPM and go with a cam designed for the blower, the trans might actually live for a while. LOL

SCott5

iTrader: (40)

Friend Greg just made 940 or 980 with a 370 and LS3 style heads and F1a

700rwhp is going to be about your safe max point on a set of 80lbs and twin255s and stock everything else so you can do it in two stages if youd like. With FI the probably most important part of the setup is fuel so spend most the money there. And no matter what it's going to be expensive. Lol.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

That's what I was looking at... I want to stay with the twin 4.5s so I don't hack my front end up and they will support what I'm looking to do. But I was thinking of doing the D1 out of the gate (F1A even pullied down is going to be too much for the stock bottom end), the Aster Bracket, and the 80s with the Twin Lonnies Pump setup. That's good for 700rwhp which is more than I want with the longblock as it sits.

Then move to F1A and the Nasty Stage 3 upgrade (-8/-6AN lines, FPR, and billet rails) when I do the forged motor.

Expensive as hell is right. But doing it in two stages like that is not as bad.

And instead of just restalling the CircleD to a 4C... I may look into moving to the Triple Disc converter.

Bob@BruteSpeed

iTrader: (16)

I replied to your pm this morning, thanks! Bob

427zm

iTrader: (9)

Jake, another economical route would be to look at GM's create LSX 376 B15. It's a strong platform boost ready for a great price IMO. Truthfully when adding Boost the 4" strong isn't completely necessary.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Oh I know. I'm talking to Shawn @ PRTech about what he recommends. He has a good track record from VA Speed on setting up boosted motors. So I want to see what he says as well. At this point, the heads I have are fine as is. Pretty much the motor is fine. The cam is probably a bit much, but if I moved to a forged 347 and did the F1A (or maybe F1D) with low boost, it'd still be insane.

And thanks, Bob. I'm glad to see the F1A would work with the stock bracketry at low boost, but I'll probably go with the Aster and 80lbs out of the gate. They'll work fine with the D1, and then I can move to the F1A later. And good info on the teflon coated lines.

Also, with the Aster, I see the new water pump is needed. I have an LS2 pump from a GTO. Is it possible to just modify it to fit with the spaced out Vette pulley?

Alky injection on the Twin 4.5s will also be considered. I need to research those options.

427zm

iTrader: (9)

Great game plan Jake. On your current setup, You'll love the D1 when you add E85 and meth to the equation. It'll have great power down low, and rip up top! And I'd imagine you could make near 800 with 10-12#'s.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Stock shortblock won't love 12lbs... but Alky and E85 could help.

So today, I did a little more searching and let a few guys know what I was thinking. Bob @ Brute and Shawn @ PRTech have been great at answering my questions.

Current gameplan is to do the D1SC at low boost with an Aster bracket and the twin 4.5" intercoolers, get the alky kit on and enjoy the motor as it is.

I'll an upgrade to a Circle D Triple Disk 4C 3600 stall. I'll do the 80lbs injectors, Lonnies Twin Pumps, and Nasty Performance FAST-specific rails, PTFE lines, and boost-referenced FPR. Perfect for the future.

But, eventually, I'll move to the 402 from Shawn with a Compstar Crank, Manley Rods, and Wiseco boost pistons. He wants to aim for about 9.6:1 using LS9 .051" gaskets and my current heads. I plan to send them to TEA to get the bigger valves to help with flow. And I'll swap out to a Cam Motion 234/246 116+2 blower cam (may add more exhuast duration). The reason for that? Well, I want a fun and explosive street engine that won't destroy my 4L60E transmission. I'd be aiming in that 700-800rwhp range on 93 with the meth injection. Keep boost around 12lbs to keep heat and wear down. Basically, build the motor and supercharger package for something resembling reliability.

And most importantly, with a tight 3600 stall and a cam with 8 degrees of overlap in a 402, it'll drive significantly better than my 16 degree overlap 346cid, 4200 loose stall car does now. While being much faster. Everywhere.

427zm

iTrader: (9)

That's a solid plan. It'd live for a bit at 10-12 on E85 and Meth, but it would die at some point. You are right, you will love the driveability and power difference with the lower overlap cam and blower. 800whp is no joke on th street, it'll keep your attention all the time, but it'll be great fun at the strip and in roll/mile events.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Yup. And since it comes on pretty smooth, if I limit RPM, the FLT trans should hold up. It was holding up in an 800rwhp turbo setup before I bought it...

427zm

iTrader: (9)

There ya go! As for stock short locks and boost, there's a couple of 1000-1100whp LS3's in this vid living with turned down F1X's. They get beat on pretty frequently, but they've lived up to this point, one working on 3 years. I know that's not a 145k mile LS1, but it is stock with high compression.

The 4:30 mark, and 12 minute mark are the 2 I'm specifically speaking about. The 12 minute mark race you're riding in my C6Z... Getting demolished by the F1X car... Serious perspective there. Mine was making 750whp, his, 1100. Beat me by buses, and 17mph on this run.

RonA

iTrader: (1)

Those 2JZ's sure sound good when they're wound up and earning their keep.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Jake, are you opposed to doing a FMIC? I'd opt for that over the dual 4.5's all day long. I'd also set the fuel system up to run e85. Cheap race gas and safer to tune/run on your higher compression setup.