Procharger? Or, third gen Camaro?
08-12-2008, 08:28 PM
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Procharger? Or, third gen Camaro? Hey all,
This is going to be long, so hang in there. As the title says, I'm having trouble deciding whether or not to get a 3rd gen. I've been mulling this over for years, literally, and I never decide to get one... but, I also never decide that I won't.
Currently, I have an '02 T/A with stock displacement but forged internals putting out about 400RWHP. When I built the motor, I put dished pistons in it with the intention of eventually putting a Procharger in it. The drivetrain is built to handle the job, and the funds for the Procharger are available.
So why not get the Procharger and some heads and slam 650RWHP to the ground? Well, there's a few things about that idea that aren't as appealing to me as they used to be. In fact, there are some things about the car in general that make me wonder if it's really what I want to consider pursuing. I'll get into those later.
This is where the potential third gen comes in. I've always been a huge third gen Camaro fan. In fact, I'm just a Camaro guy and always have been. I just didn't like the LS1 Camaros as much as the T/As. There are a lot of things about the third gen Camaro that are so much nicer than the T/A, too. However, I am very torn on the decision to get a Camaro for a bunch of reasons, too.
Reasons to get the Procharger:
1) Cheap (relatively), easy, reliable horsepower. The car should definitely be in the 625+RWHP range, and it should definitely get into the 10's (it's a stick, or else it would probably get into the 9's).
2) The T/A is a nice, relatively new car that is in very good condition, and I love the way it looks.
3) I think I will love the fact that the Procharger pulls so hard on the top end. I find that cars that favor low-end torque seem to leave me wanting on the top end more than top-end cars leave me wanting in low-end grunt.
4) There is a GREAT deal of support for Prochargers on ls1tech, so I can expect to be able to find a solution to almost any problem I could run into.
5) There's not a lot of effort involved here. I swap some heads, throw on the Procharger kit, install a fuel system, take her to get a tune, and have a nice day.
6) The Procharger responds pretty well to a big-ish cam, so my 230/236 would probably work well and still sound mean at an idle. I love that sound.
Reasons NOT to get the Procharger:
1) Due to space constraints, the kit replaces the OEM fans with a low-profile fan that is a lot less effective. I live in Texas, and this is known to cause overheating problems. There are ways to fix it, but I don't care to deal with them.
2) I'm not too terribly fond of the sound of centrifugal blowers at idle. It sounds like your alternator or AC compressor has a bad bearing or something!
3) Even though the top end will be killer, I'll still want some low-end torque that just isn't there.
4) I'll definitely need a front mount intercooler, and the T/A front end is not conducive to this. If I want to keep the fogs (which I would), then I'll have to fab up a custom kit so I can get a small enough intercooler to fit between them. I'll then have to cut the front plate section out to expose the intercooler. I'm okay with this, but it's a pain, and it's not too terribly clean.
Reasons to get the Camaro
1) Third gen Camaros rule. That's just a fact.
2) The T/A would look really dumb with true duals dumped before the axle because it has cutouts for exhaust tips, and they would be empty. The Camaro, on the other hand, would look totally natural, and that's what I'd like to do.
3) I could put my LS1 in the Camaro and eventually get a twin screw blower (Kenne Bell, Whipple, etc), and I love twin screws. All the torque in the world, WONDERFUL sound, and mean-looking as hell. The twin screw will NOT fit on the T/A. All I would need is a cowl hood for the third gen, I'm guessing.
4) According to what I read, the third gens are much, much lighter, and that is very enticing as I do hit the track a good bit.
5) A full cage in the Camaro would be much more tolerable than it would be in the T/A. In the T/A I couldn't deal with the bar going past my head and down the A-pillar because it would be too close to my head.
6) The engine bay in the Camaro is so much larger and less restrictive, so it would be nicer to work on.
7) Third gens are much more unique no matter what's done to them (if anything).
8) I might actually be able to get a third gen for free from a friend of my dad's.
Reasons NOT to get the Camaro:
1) There's going to be a lot of expenses getting it up and running. The money that could buy me a Procharger will most likely go into putting this same LS1 in the Camaro.
2) The Camaro would need a lot of cleaning up. I love working on cars, so that's fine, but it's still time-consuming effort.
3) I get discouraged pretty easily, and there are a lot of things about the engine swap that probably won't end up clean, fully functional, cheap, or easy. I'm sure I'll cuss, bloody my knuckles on the garage wall, embed some tools in the garage wall, etc.
4) While I would prefer a third gen Camaro with an LS1 and twin screw blower as a final product, I still have a lot of sentimental attachment to the Trans Am. It would be heartbreaking to sell it, and even more painful to gut it for parts. I don't think I'd like to keep both cars.
5) As nice as the third gen could possibly be made to look, the interior is extremely dated-looking, and that would definitely be a concession in my mind.
So, there you have it. This dilemma has been on my mind on and off for years now, and I just can't come to a decision. I could get the blower now and get the third gen after it gets boring. Or, I could bite the bullet, strip the T/A and build the third gen. Or, I could get the Procharger and die wishing that one day I had built the third gen. Or, maybe I could build a drag car out of the Camaro and use the T/A as a street car... but that's not likely.
UGH. I could go on forever (and when I drink, I DO!). What do you guys think or recommend?
This is going to be long, so hang in there. As the title says, I'm having trouble deciding whether or not to get a 3rd gen. I've been mulling this over for years, literally, and I never decide to get one... but, I also never decide that I won't.
Currently, I have an '02 T/A with stock displacement but forged internals putting out about 400RWHP. When I built the motor, I put dished pistons in it with the intention of eventually putting a Procharger in it. The drivetrain is built to handle the job, and the funds for the Procharger are available.
So why not get the Procharger and some heads and slam 650RWHP to the ground? Well, there's a few things about that idea that aren't as appealing to me as they used to be. In fact, there are some things about the car in general that make me wonder if it's really what I want to consider pursuing. I'll get into those later.
This is where the potential third gen comes in. I've always been a huge third gen Camaro fan. In fact, I'm just a Camaro guy and always have been. I just didn't like the LS1 Camaros as much as the T/As. There are a lot of things about the third gen Camaro that are so much nicer than the T/A, too. However, I am very torn on the decision to get a Camaro for a bunch of reasons, too.
Reasons to get the Procharger:
1) Cheap (relatively), easy, reliable horsepower. The car should definitely be in the 625+RWHP range, and it should definitely get into the 10's (it's a stick, or else it would probably get into the 9's).
2) The T/A is a nice, relatively new car that is in very good condition, and I love the way it looks.
3) I think I will love the fact that the Procharger pulls so hard on the top end. I find that cars that favor low-end torque seem to leave me wanting on the top end more than top-end cars leave me wanting in low-end grunt.
4) There is a GREAT deal of support for Prochargers on ls1tech, so I can expect to be able to find a solution to almost any problem I could run into.
5) There's not a lot of effort involved here. I swap some heads, throw on the Procharger kit, install a fuel system, take her to get a tune, and have a nice day.
6) The Procharger responds pretty well to a big-ish cam, so my 230/236 would probably work well and still sound mean at an idle. I love that sound.
Reasons NOT to get the Procharger:
1) Due to space constraints, the kit replaces the OEM fans with a low-profile fan that is a lot less effective. I live in Texas, and this is known to cause overheating problems. There are ways to fix it, but I don't care to deal with them.
2) I'm not too terribly fond of the sound of centrifugal blowers at idle. It sounds like your alternator or AC compressor has a bad bearing or something!
3) Even though the top end will be killer, I'll still want some low-end torque that just isn't there.
4) I'll definitely need a front mount intercooler, and the T/A front end is not conducive to this. If I want to keep the fogs (which I would), then I'll have to fab up a custom kit so I can get a small enough intercooler to fit between them. I'll then have to cut the front plate section out to expose the intercooler. I'm okay with this, but it's a pain, and it's not too terribly clean.
Reasons to get the Camaro
1) Third gen Camaros rule. That's just a fact.
2) The T/A would look really dumb with true duals dumped before the axle because it has cutouts for exhaust tips, and they would be empty. The Camaro, on the other hand, would look totally natural, and that's what I'd like to do.
3) I could put my LS1 in the Camaro and eventually get a twin screw blower (Kenne Bell, Whipple, etc), and I love twin screws. All the torque in the world, WONDERFUL sound, and mean-looking as hell. The twin screw will NOT fit on the T/A. All I would need is a cowl hood for the third gen, I'm guessing.
4) According to what I read, the third gens are much, much lighter, and that is very enticing as I do hit the track a good bit.
5) A full cage in the Camaro would be much more tolerable than it would be in the T/A. In the T/A I couldn't deal with the bar going past my head and down the A-pillar because it would be too close to my head.
6) The engine bay in the Camaro is so much larger and less restrictive, so it would be nicer to work on.
7) Third gens are much more unique no matter what's done to them (if anything).
8) I might actually be able to get a third gen for free from a friend of my dad's.
Reasons NOT to get the Camaro:
1) There's going to be a lot of expenses getting it up and running. The money that could buy me a Procharger will most likely go into putting this same LS1 in the Camaro.
2) The Camaro would need a lot of cleaning up. I love working on cars, so that's fine, but it's still time-consuming effort.
3) I get discouraged pretty easily, and there are a lot of things about the engine swap that probably won't end up clean, fully functional, cheap, or easy. I'm sure I'll cuss, bloody my knuckles on the garage wall, embed some tools in the garage wall, etc.
4) While I would prefer a third gen Camaro with an LS1 and twin screw blower as a final product, I still have a lot of sentimental attachment to the Trans Am. It would be heartbreaking to sell it, and even more painful to gut it for parts. I don't think I'd like to keep both cars.
5) As nice as the third gen could possibly be made to look, the interior is extremely dated-looking, and that would definitely be a concession in my mind.
So, there you have it. This dilemma has been on my mind on and off for years now, and I just can't come to a decision. I could get the blower now and get the third gen after it gets boring. Or, I could bite the bullet, strip the T/A and build the third gen. Or, I could get the Procharger and die wishing that one day I had built the third gen. Or, maybe I could build a drag car out of the Camaro and use the T/A as a street car... but that's not likely.
UGH. I could go on forever (and when I drink, I DO!). What do you guys think or recommend?
BOSS APPROVED!
08-12-2008, 08:51 PM
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See the list... weight, engine compartment size, exhaust options, roll cage fitment, etc.
Thanks for the comments, guys. Keep 'em coming. I don't let people make decisions for me, but I just can't make up my mind on this, so hopefully someone will say something that strikes a chord in my brain and makes me decide for good!
Thanks for the comments, guys. Keep 'em coming. I don't let people make decisions for me, but I just can't make up my mind on this, so hopefully someone will say something that strikes a chord in my brain and makes me decide for good!
08-12-2008, 08:55 PM
#6
I bought a new Z28 back on 1982 when they first came out, I put in a Comp 268 cam and headers right away and an Edelbrock Performer intake and a Quadrajet. We used this car for our wedding, so I do have fond memories or it. However, time passes on and these cars really look dated to me these days. I remember that car was a pain putting dual exhaust on it, I feel a lot of things are a lot easier to do on the 4th gen f body's. Bob
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08-14-2008, 10:50 PM
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I think some of your info is false. The main one being "Even though the top end will be killer, I'll still want some low-end torque that just isn't there".
What are you talking about? Have you ever been in a blower car? Id get the 3rd gen if i were you. It does not seem like you really want any head aches at all. Not that a procharger would be that big of a pain but from reading your story i can tell your trying to convince yourself not to get it.
What are you talking about? Have you ever been in a blower car? Id get the 3rd gen if i were you. It does not seem like you really want any head aches at all. Not that a procharger would be that big of a pain but from reading your story i can tell your trying to convince yourself not to get it.
08-15-2008, 12:48 AM
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The more I think about it, the more I think this will be my plan. I don't think I'll be happy unless I have both cars, and now that I have some money to spend, I'd really rather have a FAST car than have a different car with the same motor. Plus, it would be nice to have a Procharged T/A to drive around in the future while I'm building the 3rd gen Camaro.
08-16-2008, 08:14 AM
#13
The more I think about it, the more I think this will be my plan. I don't think I'll be happy unless I have both cars, and now that I have some money to spend, I'd really rather have a FAST car than have a different car with the same motor. Plus, it would be nice to have a Procharged T/A to drive around in the future while I'm building the 3rd gen Camaro.
08-17-2008, 12:13 PM
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I know this isnt an option but could be one. The maggie kits or a turbo? Both wouldnt have the centri sound at idle and the maggie would get that low end torque your feeding for. The turbo well everyone likes turbo's and you probably wouldnt have many cooling issues. yes texas is hott. either way good luck!!
08-17-2008, 12:26 PM
#18
imo
a 3rd gen with lsx and carb would be a powerful car
with th350 and stall,
use lighweight suspension mods, such as tub. kmember and unnecesary weight such as rear seats, ac stuff, etc.
spend the money on getting it to hook, and lighten as much as possible even with 450hp it will be tough to beat
a 3rd gen with lsx and carb would be a powerful car
with th350 and stall,
use lighweight suspension mods, such as tub. kmember and unnecesary weight such as rear seats, ac stuff, etc.
spend the money on getting it to hook, and lighten as much as possible even with 450hp it will be tough to beat
08-17-2008, 07:07 PM
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I'm going against the grain here... For most people two "toy" cars are one too many... I've owned three 3rd gens and my '99 Camaro... I also really, in a way, not all ways, I'm aware of pros and cons on both platforms as you are, want a 3rd gen... It's obvious to me it's what you really want...
I vote to get your hands on a clean 3rd gen. Don't worry about mechanicals... It's all coming out anyways (right? especially the brakes and stock rear end!)... I agree the interior is dated but in my opinion the 80's interiors are so "dated" they're actually cool now, if it's intact and clean. I would build the 3rd using a stock LS1 pulled out of something... Once it's up and running, all the bugs worked out, all gauges work, doesn't overheat etc, etc... Swap the engine in your TA for the stock LS1 in the 3rd gen... Modified engines don't bring much extra money selling a car. Sell the TA, you should have enough coin left over to twin screw and literally build the hell out of the Camaro... Even a complete custom interior if so inclined... Just don't do all this work on a junk body!
In the end you'll have what you really want, instead of just "wondering" the rest of your life... It's going to be a lot of work, for sure. I wouldn't put a carb on it either, seems like a "short-cut" to me.
Take the money you'd spend on procharging the TA, buy a stock LS1/6-speed with that money and get the 3rd gen going... Swap drivetrains, sell the TA, use the money to build the 3rd gen to your wants... Wouldn't that work?
I vote to get your hands on a clean 3rd gen. Don't worry about mechanicals... It's all coming out anyways (right? especially the brakes and stock rear end!)... I agree the interior is dated but in my opinion the 80's interiors are so "dated" they're actually cool now, if it's intact and clean. I would build the 3rd using a stock LS1 pulled out of something... Once it's up and running, all the bugs worked out, all gauges work, doesn't overheat etc, etc... Swap the engine in your TA for the stock LS1 in the 3rd gen... Modified engines don't bring much extra money selling a car. Sell the TA, you should have enough coin left over to twin screw and literally build the hell out of the Camaro... Even a complete custom interior if so inclined... Just don't do all this work on a junk body!
In the end you'll have what you really want, instead of just "wondering" the rest of your life... It's going to be a lot of work, for sure. I wouldn't put a carb on it either, seems like a "short-cut" to me.
Take the money you'd spend on procharging the TA, buy a stock LS1/6-speed with that money and get the 3rd gen going... Swap drivetrains, sell the TA, use the money to build the 3rd gen to your wants... Wouldn't that work?
Last edited by EdmontonSS; 08-17-2008 at 07:09 PM. Reason: for grammar
