vibration around 85, clunk when shifting
04-28-2007, 01:54 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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vibration around 85, clunk when shifting Car is a 2002 TA WS6 47k on the clock.
First off here are the things done to my car.
-UMI tunnel mount TA, adj control arms, adj panhard bar
-strange S60 4.30 gear, tru trac and matching chromoly drive shaft.
-T56 rebuilds trans
-Textralia OZ700
-All new hydraulics
I was getting a vibration so I figured my pinion angle was off. Took it to the shop and got it all set up. HAd it on the dyno still had vibration but better. Had the the driveshaft (was supposed to be new from strange, but that is an issue unto itself) and wheels balanced. Driveshaft made it better. Also measured driveshaft length to verify it was correct. Wheels didnt help at all. I swapped out the poly trans mount and put the stock one back in. Helped a bit more. Still have vibration. Replaced all the brakes. Replaced rear shocks with KYB GR2's for the heck of it. Still have vibration.
All the suspension is torqued per UMI and factory specs.
It appears to be speed related as it only kicks in round 80-85. At that speed if relesease the clutch the vibration gets worse in nuetral.
ALso I have a clunk when shifting. Feels like something is jumping around but I have now idea.
ANy help cause I am fed up. Gettin back on the dyno Monday to try to diagnose it more.
First off here are the things done to my car.
-UMI tunnel mount TA, adj control arms, adj panhard bar
-strange S60 4.30 gear, tru trac and matching chromoly drive shaft.
-T56 rebuilds trans
-Textralia OZ700
-All new hydraulics
I was getting a vibration so I figured my pinion angle was off. Took it to the shop and got it all set up. HAd it on the dyno still had vibration but better. Had the the driveshaft (was supposed to be new from strange, but that is an issue unto itself) and wheels balanced. Driveshaft made it better. Also measured driveshaft length to verify it was correct. Wheels didnt help at all. I swapped out the poly trans mount and put the stock one back in. Helped a bit more. Still have vibration. Replaced all the brakes. Replaced rear shocks with KYB GR2's for the heck of it. Still have vibration.
All the suspension is torqued per UMI and factory specs.
It appears to be speed related as it only kicks in round 80-85. At that speed if relesease the clutch the vibration gets worse in nuetral.
ALso I have a clunk when shifting. Feels like something is jumping around but I have now idea.
ANy help cause I am fed up. Gettin back on the dyno Monday to try to diagnose it more.
04-28-2007, 05:14 PM
#2
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i would like to know more about this also. i've got close to the same setup as you do.
t56 rebuilds trans
tex. single disc clutch
moser 9" lightweight spool
driveshaft out of tim tosto's car (orange SS on pinks...)
SPOHN body mount t/a
mine vibrates at the same time as yours. starts around 80-85 depending on tire height (same driveshaft RPM though, just shorter/taller tires). its done this since i can remember, stock rear/everything except the body mount t/a. even when i had an a4 in the car it would do it if i kept it in 3rd gear. then go away in OD. i've replaced EVERYTHING under the car driveline/motor/suspension related since the t/a in the process of building the car up and it still does it.
i really think its the body mount torque arm thats causing it. thats the only common factor in my car.
t56 rebuilds trans
tex. single disc clutch
moser 9" lightweight spool
driveshaft out of tim tosto's car (orange SS on pinks...)
SPOHN body mount t/a
mine vibrates at the same time as yours. starts around 80-85 depending on tire height (same driveshaft RPM though, just shorter/taller tires). its done this since i can remember, stock rear/everything except the body mount t/a. even when i had an a4 in the car it would do it if i kept it in 3rd gear. then go away in OD. i've replaced EVERYTHING under the car driveline/motor/suspension related since the t/a in the process of building the car up and it still does it.
i really think its the body mount torque arm thats causing it. thats the only common factor in my car.
04-29-2007, 05:22 PM
#3
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I had the clunking when my car shifted, its an auto with a shift kit. The stock rubber mount was bad. To look at my stock rubber mount, you would think it was ok. I changed the mount and the clunking stopped.
05-01-2007, 08:55 AM
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Staging Lane
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Well had the car on the dyno yesterday. Determined it was a speed related issue. At least that elimantes my clutch. Checked all the suspension again, good to go, no noticeable vibration in the drivshaft. We going to start looking into the rear and do some more dyno testing today.
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05-01-2007, 05:10 PM
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Staging Lane
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after todays session on the dyno and several phone calls we may have come up with a possible solution. according to several tranny shops the T56 is sensitive to additional weight. I am currently running a chromoly shaft which is considerably heavier than the stocker so I will be ordering a pst aluminum unit. The next step will be to shim up the output shaft on the trans to help eliminate any additional play. I really hope this doesnt need to be done.
Also my clunking only occurs when shifting, not during regular cruising so I do not think its the rod ends, but you never know.
Also my clunking only occurs when shifting, not during regular cruising so I do not think its the rod ends, but you never know.
05-01-2007, 07:07 PM
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So where should I look? Everything under the car is brand new. I have no other ideas and the only sort of direction I have gotten is what I have previously stated (the driveshaft is the cheapest easiest route as well). I feel that I have covered all the basics. It lies in either the trans, driveshaft or rear all of which are new/rebuilt.
05-01-2007, 07:10 PM
#12
Rod end suspension is going to make noise and clunk, swap in your stock **** and see if thats the issue, I think it is, ive driven in a car with rod end LCA's OMG, those things are rediculous. Maybe due to having one end poly end link helps but there is still one spot that isnt.
05-02-2007, 11:21 PM
#14
Originally Posted by ElChiefWS602
after todays session on the dyno and several phone calls we may have come up with a possible solution. according to several tranny shops the T56 is sensitive to additional weight. I am currently running a chromoly shaft which is considerably heavier than the stocker so I will be ordering a pst aluminum unit. The next step will be to shim up the output shaft on the trans to help eliminate any additional play. I really hope this doesnt need to be done.
Also my clunking only occurs when shifting, not during regular cruising so I do not think its the rod ends, but you never know.
Also my clunking only occurs when shifting, not during regular cruising so I do not think its the rod ends, but you never know.
05-03-2007, 07:27 AM
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Well we were under the car again yesterday. I noticed my UMI chassis mount t/a cross brace is not level. Dont know if this has anything to with my problems but I will be machining an aluminum spacer to make it level. Figured it cant hurt. Also I am going to check the spline mesh of my strange ds versus my stocker. While I am at it I will flip the DS 180 and see if that helps.
I called T56 rebuilds (they rebuilt my tranny) and they said my trans output shaft is shimmed correctly so the vibration will not be comming from the trans.
They said to have my textralia clutch balanced, but wouldn't an out of balance clutch have vibration related to rpm and not speed?
Also from what I have been told with the suspension loaded the machine area of the yoke should extend from the tail shaft housing about 1/2". Now from my dust boot it's exposed 1/2" so there is slightly more than an inch exposed total on my yoke. Anyone think that this might be an issue? Maybe I need a longer ds? Center to center my ds is 39.375".
SO in short the next steps are to: 1. Even out my T/A cross brace. 2. Check spline mesh with output shaft with both my driveshafts. 3. Flip DS 180 4. Order a new PST aluminum DS. Figured this will be the cheapest and easiest route.
I called T56 rebuilds (they rebuilt my tranny) and they said my trans output shaft is shimmed correctly so the vibration will not be comming from the trans.
They said to have my textralia clutch balanced, but wouldn't an out of balance clutch have vibration related to rpm and not speed?
Also from what I have been told with the suspension loaded the machine area of the yoke should extend from the tail shaft housing about 1/2". Now from my dust boot it's exposed 1/2" so there is slightly more than an inch exposed total on my yoke. Anyone think that this might be an issue? Maybe I need a longer ds? Center to center my ds is 39.375".
SO in short the next steps are to: 1. Even out my T/A cross brace. 2. Check spline mesh with output shaft with both my driveshafts. 3. Flip DS 180 4. Order a new PST aluminum DS. Figured this will be the cheapest and easiest route.
05-10-2007, 06:47 AM
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Called UMI about the TA. Said it was normal. Also they mentioned with S60 that a pinion angle of 0 degrees works best. I still need to try this
I flipped my driveshaft 180 and it made a noticeable difference in my vibration. Its a lot better but still there. The clunk when shifting is still present as well. When I was under the car I noticed the more I pushed the yoke into the tranny the less play I had. I am starting to wonder if my yoke is not engaging the output shaft enough.
I have heard various dimensions as to how much a yoke is suppossed to extend from the tailshaft, so I really dont know which answer is right.
My next step will be to set the pinion to 0 degrees and go from there.
I flipped my driveshaft 180 and it made a noticeable difference in my vibration. Its a lot better but still there. The clunk when shifting is still present as well. When I was under the car I noticed the more I pushed the yoke into the tranny the less play I had. I am starting to wonder if my yoke is not engaging the output shaft enough.
I have heard various dimensions as to how much a yoke is suppossed to extend from the tailshaft, so I really dont know which answer is right.
My next step will be to set the pinion to 0 degrees and go from there.
05-20-2007, 11:28 PM
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i don't know if this will help your situation at all, but i posted this reply in the suspension section for someone who was having vibration and clunking issues:
the clunking is going to be normal for a chassis mounted t/a. i've got the spohn t/a, and by playing around with the tightness of the front bolts you can get the clunking to lighten up, but it seems to be the norm that there will be some noise.
there was a good article in the "what's your problem" section of carcraft this month(july 2007) about vibrations at speed. i tend to get a lot of harmonic noise as i start hitting higher speeds, so this article made a lot of sense to me: if your trans and rear pinion are at the same height, you'll get harmonics....you want them to be parallel but not on the same plane....this is the pic they use from mark williams:
i might try to add a spacer to move the trans up in my lowered car, i want to see if i can eliminate some of those harmonics.
-josh
there was a good article in the "what's your problem" section of carcraft this month(july 2007) about vibrations at speed. i tend to get a lot of harmonic noise as i start hitting higher speeds, so this article made a lot of sense to me: if your trans and rear pinion are at the same height, you'll get harmonics....you want them to be parallel but not on the same plane....this is the pic they use from mark williams:
i might try to add a spacer to move the trans up in my lowered car, i want to see if i can eliminate some of those harmonics.
-josh
02-29-2008, 08:39 AM
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Figured I'd update this thread. The clunking was coming from my tunnel mounted torque arm. The vibration was a combination of an out of balance driveshaft and pinion angle adjustment.
I couldn't be bothered adjusting the UMI torque any more so I removed and and tossed my stock set up in. Now I have no more clunking or vibration. However I now have no traction. That tunnel mount set up really planted the tires. Down the road I will add a UMI full length arm with thier relocation kit.
I couldn't be bothered adjusting the UMI torque any more so I removed and and tossed my stock set up in. Now I have no more clunking or vibration. However I now have no traction. That tunnel mount set up really planted the tires. Down the road I will add a UMI full length arm with thier relocation kit.
